Wanted: Feedback For Rampage & Double Dragon

[nosweargamer]

Thanks as always for all the comments to my previous posts. I try to include all the comments that are posted by the time I record. I think they really help make the podcast better!

This should be an interesting one

I'm looking for feedback for the next episode of the Atari 7800 Game By Game Podcast (you can find it on iTunes, Stitcher, YouTube or use this feed: http://feeds.feedburner.com/78gbg )

What are your memories and/or thoughts on Rampage & Double Dragon on the 7800?

Also, how would you rate them? I use a system of 4 choices (From Best to Worst):

Hall of Fame Game (Top 5 game on the system)

Solid Game

"Meh" Game

Trash Game (Bottom 5 game on the system)

These games will be covered on Episode 21.

You can also e-mail text or audio to atari7800podcast@aol.com

Just keep it family friendly

You can also send feedback on previously covered games or the system itself. Thanks!

[BydoEmpire]

Two amazing games... on the Sega Master System. Especially Rampage. I've never played the 7800 versions, unfortunately so no feedback from me.

[Nutsy Doodleheimer]

Double Dragon: "Trash Game" It is easily one of the worst games for the system. Blocky graphics, horrible and unresponsive controls, ear wretching looping music, and you can't pick up barrels and throw them. Punches are Ineffective and only flying jump kicks are. The game is very hard and does not compare to the superior NES version. Grade: F

 

Rampage: "Solid Game" A very good faithful arcade port for the 7800. Unlike the NES version, this one includes Ralph. The sounds are a tad annoying but it doesn't bother me very much. Great graphics and It is fun to play solo and also one of the best multiplayer games for the 7800. Who doesn't enjoy destroying cities, eating humans, and taking cheap shots at your opponent. A highly reccommended game for the 7800. Grade: B+

[toiletunes]

Rampage: The "monsters" look cute and cuddly, but it's still fun to play. Bonus points for including Ralph.

I want to like DD, it's a great arcade game and I enjoy the 7800 console, but this version of the game is unplayable.

[+save2600]

Rampage - solid/bordering on HOF for me. A wee bit tough though.

 

Double Dragon - meh. More playable than the 2600 version for sure. At least they decided to take advantage of the dual button control. One for kick, one for punch - unlike what they didn't do for 7800 Kung-Fu Master.

 

Worth mentioning: KevinMOS's enhancements go a loooong way in the graphics department on these btw.

[oyamafamily]

Rampage and Double Dragon - SOLID games for me.

 

Between these 2 games on 7800 system, Rampage is my favorite!

[gilsaluki]

DD is a D-. Rampage is a Solid B.

[DracIsBack]

This is tough

 

I loved double dragon in the arcade. The 7800 one was fun, but could have been much better. The game feels rushed and cheap. The abobos walked off of title match pro wrestling, there are missing moves, animations and elements. The sprites are poorly drawn. Some colours are poorly chosen. The AI is stupid too. You can reverse jump kick through the game, trap enemies in corners etc. On the other hand, some levels look nicer than others, it's two player. The music is pretty good for TIA. It follows the arcade better than the nes. Solid minus. Could be a lot better and I love the new art designed one out now. Solid (minus)

 

Rampage is always found boring and repetitive. 7800 is the same for me. The monsters look like muppet babies. The buildings have no detail. The sound cuts in and out. I like the car sprites. The novelty just gets old ... And there's no ending! Meh ... But it also could look way better given that the screen doesn't scroll at all

[8th lutz]

This is a tough one from a nostalgia standpoint and I didn't play the arcade version of either game when I got the 7800 version of the games in 1989 . Those two games were among the first games I own for the Atari 7800.

 

Right now, Double Dragon is a solid minus or a meh plus. thought more highly of the game back in 1989 or 1990 than I do since I own my 7800 games now and played the arcade version. I actually beaten this game on the 7800 5 or 6 times.

 

It is an under whelming port and I question the amount of effort into it. This version underachieved in graphics, and a some of items used in the arcade version isn't in this version along with what others said about the amount of moves. The only thing that it has going for it is trying to stay true to the arcade version unlike the NES version.

 

Rampage is a solid game. It can have better graphics, but it is a fun 2 player game. Its one of the better non-homebrew games on the Atari 7800 that I own.

[SoulBlazer]

Rampage: Interesting how Activision made these two ports of the classic arcade games! Looking forward to hearing the story behind this one. Great box art, and I like how this version of the game includes all three monsters. The graphics are okay, but they don't look as good as the NES or SMS versions and have kind of a 'washed out' look. Nice detail on the monsters themselves and on the buildings. Sound again suffers from only having the 2600 sound chip to work with, but they tried to duplicate the sound effects and music from the arcade game as best they could, although it seems two sounds can't play at once....a second sound starting will cut out the first. Played on something besides the stock 7800 controller, the controls work fine. The little newspaper sections between cities never fail to crack me up. All in all this is a decent port of the very good arcade game, but not as good as the NES and SMS versions. Rating: Solid

 

Double Dragon: Considering the limitations of the 7800, you can tell right away Activision tried really hard, and it's a better effort then their late 2600 ports. The graphics and stages look like their arcade counterparts, and if you've played the arcade game you'll recognize where you are and who is coming at you. Nice detail for the backgrounds and on the people, not as good as the arcade or NES versions but good graphics for the 7800. The music is recognizable and pretty good considering there's no POKEY chip on the cart, and the songs from the arcade game are here. Again, play this with anything besides the stock 7800 controller and the controls work fine. This version is hard, though, with the collision detection not seeming perfect and the enemies seeming more robust then they should be. The AI isn't as good as it should be, though, and I prefer the 'level up' system used on the NES version. It does, however, have a two player mode, something the NES version does not. Overall I think this version is better the SMS version but not as good the NES version, and is decent to play if you don't have access to that one. Rating: Solid

[+Defender_2600]

KevinMOS's enhancements go a loooong way in the graphics department on these btw.

 

...video necessary :

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lynxpro]

 

...video necessary :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The updated Double Dragon should add the POKEY audio that's been done in that thread.

[Lynxpro]

Both games are solid on the 7800. At least the 7800 version of Double Dragon actually lives up to its name, unlike the NES version which should've been re-titled Single Dragon.

 

Had both of the 7800 versions had the same ROM and RAM size in their carts as their NES counterparts - and POKEY audio - there'd be no debate as to which versions are better. The SMS versions are fantastic but the SMS also has a lot more RAM inside the console…the only weakness is its CPU. [6502 > Z80].

Edited November 20, 2015 by Lynxpro

[Trebor]

Rampage = Meh. It plays well enough but feels rushed with an odd and way off-the-mark pastel palette choice. Graphics are fair and sounds okay. Sounds are not a big issue as even the Arcade has no real background music or extensive effects. For this port, Rampage at least has decent proportional and proper sprite sizes and a good foundation template that can be built upon for improvement, which Kevin's graphic hack did a great job in capitalizing upon.

Double Dragon = Trash. Off the bat, it plays poorly including being horribly imbalanced. Graphics are subpar and sounds are below average. Double Dragon from the foundation up is cheap and rushed on the 7800. The only thing worse than the unnecessarily small player sprites is how lousy they are detailed. Compare the sprite sizes, large varied background environments, the several different background tunes and effects of a game like Midnight Mutants for the same system, utilizing the same cartridge size, the drastic differences in quality are clear. This Double Dragon port essentially requires jump kicks and back elbows through well over 90% of the game to easily defeat it, or else be nearly beaten and slaughtered by practically every enemy, when utilizing any other attack. Kevin's graphic hack has certainly maximized what can be accomplished with the poor template, but this one really needs the 'Donkey Kong remake' treatment.

For both games the 7800 could have had better looking, sounding, and playing ports; respecting Double Dragon it is exponentially the case.

[Shawn]

Both solid with a slight tendency towards "meh" at times just cause they could have been a little better.

[78001987]

 

...video necessary :

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did Kevin ever release a ROM of his Rampage graphics update?

[nosweargamer]

Both games are solid on the 7800. At least the 7800 version of Double Dragon actually lives up to its name, unlike the NES version which should've been re-titled Single Dragon.

 

 

That's funny. Last week I recorded an intro for my upcoming NES review of Double Dragon. Check out this picture for the review (great minds...):

[+grips03]

Compared to 7800's Commando (really good game) these games are not fun. Double Dragon on Sega Master System is much better.

[gambler172]

Both are solid games for me.The existing hacks,

made by Kevin however are top games

greetings Walter

[+save2600]

Some of these games might be disappointing when you compare them to other versions. Or even consider that they were rushed or poorly handled for the 7800, and that's where the real disappointment lies. Least today, we have the graphic enhanced versions to enjoy. Sound coming too.

[DracIsBack]

you can tell right away Activision tried really hard,

 

No - they really didn't. The abobos are identical sprites to the wrestlers in Title Match Pro Wrestling. The music is identical on both the 2600 and 7800 version. The game is only 128K. There are moves missing. There are animations missing. There are weapons and certain game elements missing. The Jimmy Lee sprite is identical to the enemies. Many of the sprites have extremely poor detail.

 

There've been a bunch of threads on this on how the graphics could be improved and there's a great homebrew where the existing graphics are spruced up with better colors.

 

I don't buy for a second that "technical limitations" caused this game to be as good as it possibly could be. It has all the elements of Activision farming it out to Imagineering, giving them a cheap development budget and saying "do it quick".

 

If Sculptured Software or Blue Sky Software was given the assignment, a year's development and a 256K cartridge to put it on, I think we'd have a much better game.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/190327-double-dragon-xm/

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/200238-a-challenge-to-pac-man-red/

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242507-double-dragon-sprite-color-hack/

[+Defender_2600]

Did Kevin ever release a ROM of his Rampage graphics update?

 

Not yet, the player sprites graphics is still a work in progress.

 

[+save2600]

 

Not yet, the player sprites graphics is still a work in progress.

 

 

Yes, there is a graphic hack of Rampage that was released. We bought way back when, per this thread…

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242258-new-pcb-for-activisions-rampage-double-dragon-interest-thread/page-5?hl=%2B7800+%2Bdouble+%2Bdragon+%2Brampage&do=findComment&comment=3347327

[+Defender_2600]

Yes, there is a graphic hack of Rampage that was released. We bought way back when, per this thread…

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242258-new-pcb-for-activisions-rampage-double-dragon-interest-thread/page-5?hl=%2B7800+%2Bdouble+%2Bdragon+%2Brampage&do=findComment&comment=3347327

 

Yes, I have purchased two PCB's!

Simply, I thought the question was referring to the release of the game (ROM) in electronic form.

 

KevinMos3 Rampage (Graphics Hack)

[King Atari]

I don't have 7800 Rampage, so i can't comment on that other than I'm not big on that game in general. The 7800 version would probably do little to change that opinion (that said, if I came across it in the wild, I'd naturally snap it up right quick).

 

As for Double Dragon, for me it's a solid game. It's certainly not perfect, but IMO it's better than is usually given credit for.

 

The sprites are terrible, no two ways about it. Only Abobo looks halfway decent, and like Drac said above, they're ripped from Title Match. The backgrounds for the first two levels are pretty rough as well. BUT, the 3rd and 4th stages look pretty good.

 

The music is awful. In the right hands, the 7800 doesn't always absolutely positively need POKEY (see: Midnight Mutants), but when it comes to Double Dragon, it would have done wonders. The original arcade soundtrack is a genuine classic, so the 7800's rendition definitely needed more.

 

All that said, I do enjoy the gameplay. It's not a flawless experience, and there's definitely a learning curve, but I have some fun with this one quite often. The punches are worthless, don't even bother with them; stick with kicks and things become much easier. The stock US Pro Line joysticks are cramp inducing though; you definitely need the European Joy Pads or a modified controller or something that gives you some semblance of comfort. For me, the controller makes all the difference in the world here. Get a decent controller and avoid punching, and the game becomes exponentially better IMHO. Plus, two player simultaneous gameplay and arcade-accurate levels are beyond welcome here. True, some moves and weapons were sacrificed, and it's definitely a slower and more deliberate game than, say, the SMS port, but taken on its own terms, I really don't think 7800 Double Dragon is all that bad.