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New video upgrade coming soon!

video upgrade clearpic supervideo UAV

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#351 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 4, 2016 9:50 PM

Got my units today, Bryan, thanks!  I don't think I understood that the plug-in kit would be unassembled ... 

 

Pray for me, fellow tinkerers, in my hour of soldering to come ... :D

The Basic board is just the board and you solder all connections. The Kit is for installations where there isn't room for a full Plug-In board, but where you want to use some of the Plug-In features. Ususally, the scenarios are:

 

1. You want to plug it into the 4050 socket but solder the video-out wires directly to the board which saves the height of the green terminal block. The configuration jumpers can also be replaced with wire jumpers to save additional height. (You could also put the green terminal on the bottom of the board if there's room).

 

2. You want the terminals but won't be plugging it directly into a 4050 socket.

 

Basically, you get the parts to build it however you want.

 

Also, all Plug-In board jumpers come configured for 800XL/65XE/130XE/XEGS.



#352 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 4, 2016 9:54 PM

Can someone please post a pic of where to solder the wires going to the monitor DIN on a 130XE? If any components need to be lifted pics of those would be helpful too.

I'll get this posted very soon. The wiring for other machines are on page 12.



#353 iesposta ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 4, 2016 10:05 PM

I really need a bit more info for 7800 install. 

Do the luma still come off TIA, or Maria?

 

I did a little unorthodox install. 

Since I had a Longhorn mod in there (which I don't care for as the blues have a very bad bleed), I just tack soldered the full board on to the Longhorn's 4050.

Maria color 43 was there, TIA color pin 9 was there. 

And the pins for SVideo. Just had to switch those up to the new board.  And add +5V & ground. 

Got a picture with the 800XL jumper setting, but the yellow is too green. 

Also the blue with the bad bleed is the same and the Longhorn!

I hope that's the Longhorn's 4050 and not the 7800. 

 

In 2600 mode I just had Black and White and I had to remove the top jumper. 

Now I do have the switch wired to turn on or off TIA color, but both positions were black and white. 



#354 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 4, 2016 10:36 PM

The Basic board is just the board and you solder all connections. The Kit is for installations where there isn't room for a full Plug-In board, but where you want to use some of the Plug-In features. Ususally, the scenarios are:
 
1. You want to plug it into the 4050 socket but solder the video-out wires directly to the board which saves the height of the green terminal block. The configuration jumpers can also be replaced with wire jumpers to save additional height. (You could also put the green terminal on the bottom of the board if there's room).
 
2. You want the terminals but won't be plugging it directly into a 4050 socket.
 
Basically, you get the parts to build it however you want.
 
Also, all Plug-In board jumpers come configured for 800XL/65XE/130XE/XEGS.


Yeah in retrospect that makes sense. I misunderstood the options. Since one of mine is going into a 2600, the bare board is exactly what I need there. The second is going into an XL computer so I guess I SHOULD have gotten a full plug-in board, replacing the existing 4050. Well, no biggie. Assembling the board before installation will be good practice and if I screw it up, I'll order another from the Store down the line. Heck, I may order a few more anyway. :)

Edited by DrVenkman, Fri Mar 4, 2016 10:38 PM.


#355 cjameslv OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 4, 2016 11:09 PM

.... Assembling the board before installation will be good practice and if I screw it up, I'll order another from the Store down the line. Heck, I may order a few more anyway. :)

Yeah these are a really affordable price. Only got 2 but going to need more for sure.



#356 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 5, 2016 12:07 PM

I really need a bit more info for 7800 install. 

Do the luma still come off TIA, or Maria?

 

I did a little unorthodox install. 

Since I had a Longhorn mod in there (which I don't care for as the blues have a very bad bleed), I just tack soldered the full board on to the Longhorn's 4050.

Maria color 43 was there, TIA color pin 9 was there. 

And the pins for SVideo. Just had to switch those up to the new board.  And add +5V & ground. 

Got a picture with the 800XL jumper setting, but the yellow is too green. 

Also the blue with the bad bleed is the same and the Longhorn!

I hope that's the Longhorn's 4050 and not the 7800. 

 

In 2600 mode I just had Black and White and I had to remove the top jumper. 

Now I do have the switch wired to turn on or off TIA color, but both positions were black and white. 

I'm not sure I can help with that type of installation, but I can tell you how to hook it up.

 

Find U3 on the 7800.

Pin 11 is L1

Pin 6 is L2

Pin 8 is L3

Pin 3 is SYNC

 

Maria Pin 42 is L0

 

Attach as shown here:

http://atariage.com/...soon/?p=3414245

(ignore the 2600 pin assignments)

 

5V and Ground should be soldered to the pads on the left. They should be connected somewhere where the 5V noise is low like across C60 or C61.

 

Color is attached as shown here:

http://atariage.com/...soon/?p=3426454

(although, don't use a Plug-In board. The Basic board is best for the 7800. I should make a new picture)

 

Maria's color pin is 43. TIA's is 9.

 

This should work, but I haven't been able to verify it with a real 7800 yet. Who else is planning a 7800 installation?



#357 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 5, 2016 12:44 PM

Example: 130XE

 

Three ferrites need to be lifted to break the original connections to the DIN port: L7, L9, L31. Then you can attach these signals to the back pads for these 3 parts.

 

Because the 130XE tends to be noisy, I'd also run an auxiliary ground wire from the back terminals to somewhere near the DIN jack (or to the center pin itself). There's a ground via just to the right of C205 that is a good place to land this wire. If you still see any noise, cut the center of the ground split-pad on the UAV.

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • 130inst.jpg
  • 130inst2.jpg


#358 GlowingGhoul OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 5, 2016 1:52 PM

Example: 130XE

 

Three ferrites need to be lifted to break the original connections to the DIN port: L7, L9, L31. Then you can attach these signals to the back pads for these 3 parts.

 

Because the 130XE tends to be noisy, I'd also run an auxiliary ground wire from the back terminals to somewhere near the DIN jack (or to the center pin itself). There's a ground via just to the right of C205 that is a good place to land this wire. If you still see any noise, cut the center of the ground split-pad on the UAV.

 

 

 

Thanks for that!

 

By "back pads" I assume you mean the pads facing the back (port side) of the machine, right?

 

Any reason not to remove the RF modulator?


Edited by GlowingGhoul, Sat Mar 5, 2016 1:53 PM.


#359 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 5, 2016 3:52 PM

Thanks for that!

 

By "back pads" I assume you mean the pads facing the back (port side) of the machine, right?

 

Yes. I'll look at my 130XE motherboard and verify that none of them have weird routing though. :)

 

 

Any reason not to remove the RF modulator?

 

I've removed them in some of my machines. There are extra power filtering components specifically for the modulator, so I've used the modulator's 5V pad as a source for UAV power too.



#360 cjameslv OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 5, 2016 6:39 PM

Received mine today! Thank you. Time to do some mod work tonight.

 

 

I'm not sure I can help with that type of installation, but I can tell you how to hook it up.

 

Find U3 on the 7800.

Pin 11 is L1

Pin 6 is L2

Pin 8 is L3

Pin 3 is SYNC

 

Maria Pin 42 is L0

 

Attach as shown here:

http://atariage.com/...soon/?p=3414245

(ignore the 2600 pin assignments)

 

5V and Ground should be soldered to the pads on the left. They should be connected somewhere where the 5V noise is low like across C60 or C61.

 

Color is attached as shown here:

http://atariage.com/...soon/?p=3426454

(although, don't use a Plug-In board. The Basic board is best for the 7800. I should make a new picture)

 

Maria's color pin is 43. TIA's is 9.

 

This should work, but I haven't been able to verify it with a real 7800 yet. Who else is planning a 7800 installation?

 

One of the basic boards i got is going into a 7800, the other is a heavy sixer.


Edited by cjameslv, Sat Mar 5, 2016 6:41 PM.


#361 iesposta ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 5, 2016 8:38 PM

7800:
Find U3 on the 7800. (Easy for you to say! Ha ha.)
Took a while to find it is the x74LS32x nearest to the RF box.
It is the one you remove to put the Longhorn board in.
And if you removed it, YES you have to replace it. Did not work without U3.

Maria Pin 42 is L0
U3 Pin 11 is L1
U3 Pin 6 is L2
U3 Pin 8 is L3
U3 Pin 3 is SYNC

Once I read "ignore the 2600 info" and hooked it up properly it displays perfectly.

2600 mode is still black and white.
Even removing TIA pin nine - it is still a picture, black and white.
The bottom of (removed in my case) R22 is TIA pin 9. Even checked continuity with TIA's 9th pin. Good.
It is located directly above U3's 8th pin.
Hope that helps.
The 2600's color signal isn't getting in, or it is too weak?

#362 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 5, 2016 9:05 PM

R22 is required for this to work. The TIA's color pin needs a pull-up.

 

Is the 7800 picture better than before?



#363 iesposta ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 6, 2016 4:13 AM

R22 is required for this to work. The TIA's color pin needs a pull-up.
 
Is the 7800 picture better than before?


Adding R22 fixed the 2600 color. .

The 7800 picture is very good on SVideo. (The bleeding was caused by a long SVideo run.) A quality cable plugged into the XRGB upscaler is beautiful.

Composite in a 7800 game with TIA 9 attached is terrible.
As I said, I have that on a switch. Turning pin 9 off is a huge improvement. (Oddly this switch has no effect in 7800 SVideo.)
I need to try on my CRTs with no up-scaling.

#364 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 6, 2016 9:41 AM

Adding R22 fixed the 2600 color. .

The 7800 picture is very good on SVideo. (The bleeding was caused by a long SVideo run.) A quality cable plugged into the XRGB upscaler is beautiful.

Composite in a 7800 game with TIA 9 attached is terrible.
As I said, I have that on a switch. Turning pin 9 off is a huge improvement. (Oddly this switch has no effect in 7800 SVideo.)
I need to try on my CRTs with no up-scaling.

 

You're attaching TIA color to the lower left of the header pins (inside the socket pins)?

 

Hmm.. so what happens if you lift one end of R17?

 

I really need to get scope caps of a 7800 in action.



#365 iesposta ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 6, 2016 12:32 PM

 
You're attaching TIA color to the lower left of the header pins (inside the socket pins)?
 
Hmm.. so what happens if you lift one end of R17?
 
I really need to get scope caps of a 7800 in action.


Yes attached TIA color as per your diagram.
R16 & R17 are removed. Should I replace those and take TIA color from R17 and Maria color from R16?

#366 Smokeless Joe OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 6, 2016 6:44 PM

Example: The 1200XL

 

In the XL series, for some reason we'll probably never know, Atari dropped Chroma support from the monitor jack. This means we only need to lift Video and Luma, and run a wire to the jack for Chroma.

 

Lift the back pin of L1 and L3, and connect Video and Luma to the pads on the board (Luma is L1). Also lift one side of C103 and C104.

 

I really like desoldering ever since I got my fancy-pants desoldering gun, so I went a little nuts with this.  I completely removed L1, L3 C103 and C104, then soldered wires for Video (back pad of L3), Luma (back pad of L1) and Chroma (pin 5 of the monitor plug).  I'm using a 5-pin DIN to S-video cable.  I works great, except...

 

there are some faint vertical lines on the screen.  They become slightly fainter if I remove the Video wire. I wouldn't even have noticed them if I hadn't first tried running wires directly from the UAV board to an S-video cable. Direct wiring like that really makes a perfect image.

 

Looks like some noise get through when connecting to the monitor plug via the motherboard.  I'm thinking maybe I'll remove the motherboard monitor plug entirely, and mount something like this in it's place, wiring directly from the UAV to the new plug:

 

http://www.jameco.co..._10001_15844_-1



#367 BillC OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 6, 2016 7:03 PM

 

I really like desoldering ever since I got my fancy-pants desoldering gun, so I went a little nuts with this.  I completely removed L1, L3 C103 and C104, then soldered wires for Video (back pad of L3), Luma (back pad of L1) and Chroma (pin 5 of the monitor plug).  I'm using a 5-pin DIN to S-video cable.  I works great, except...

 

there are some faint vertical lines on the screen.  They become slightly fainter if I remove the Video wire. I wouldn't even have noticed them if I hadn't first tried running wires directly from the UAV board to an S-video cable. Direct wiring like that really makes a perfect image.

 

Looks like some noise get through when connecting to the monitor plug via the motherboard.  I'm thinking maybe I'll remove the motherboard monitor plug entirely, and mount something like this in it's place, wiring directly from the UAV to the new plug:

 

http://www.jameco.co..._10001_15844_-1

I think many s-video cables use thin coax cable for each signal, which would explain why the picture is better with the UAV using this type of cable, the coax shielding reduces interference



#368 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 6, 2016 7:45 PM

 

I really like desoldering ever since I got my fancy-pants desoldering gun, so I went a little nuts with this.  I completely removed L1, L3 C103 and C104, then soldered wires for Video (back pad of L3), Luma (back pad of L1) and Chroma (pin 5 of the monitor plug).  I'm using a 5-pin DIN to S-video cable.  I works great, except...

 

there are some faint vertical lines on the screen.  They become slightly fainter if I remove the Video wire. I wouldn't even have noticed them if I hadn't first tried running wires directly from the UAV board to an S-video cable. Direct wiring like that really makes a perfect image.

 

Looks like some noise get through when connecting to the monitor plug via the motherboard.  I'm thinking maybe I'll remove the motherboard monitor plug entirely, and mount something like this in it's place, wiring directly from the UAV to the new plug:

 

http://www.jameco.co..._10001_15844_-1

 

Remember that signals are the voltage difference between two conductors: the inner signal wire and the outer ground connection. When you use the DIN connector, you introduce a 2nd ground point so any difference between DIN ground and ground at the 4050 socket becomes part of the picture. These differences happen because of the currents running the traces. Try running the extra ground wire from the UAV terminals to ground near or on the DIN socket.



#369 KLund1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 6, 2016 10:44 PM

Great upgrade, but I'm kind of a plug play kind of user.

I'm installing one of my UAV's in a 600XL I've upgraded to 64K.

I have removed the 2/3 channel switch and installed a 5 pin DIN on the MB.

I have changed the UAV jumpers for a 600.

Now I need to know which connections on the green UAV's outputs go to which pins on the DIN. I can't read a schematic so I need a bit of help here.

See my picture below for what I have so far. I might have misread something above, and I may not need the connections. But I don;t see any traces on the MB to the DIN, so I think I need my wires for connections.

I will assume we are reading connections left to right. DIN pins 1-5, UAV pins 1-7

DIN       UAV

1             ?

2             ?

3             ?

4             ?

5             ?

 

other connections needed...?

 

Thanks everyone

Attached Thumbnails

  • 20160306_203451.jpg


#370 Smokeless Joe OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 7, 2016 6:50 AM

Based on your left-to-right assumption, I think you want this:

DIN..........UAV
1..............3 (Luma)
2..............2 (Composite Video)
3..............1 and 5 (Ground)
4..............4 (Chroma)
5..............Nothing (Audio)

You'll also need to run a wire from pin 21 of the POKEY chip to UAV 6 (color in), otherwise you'll only get black and white. I learned that one the hard way.

This is a bit of a puzzle since your left-to-right numbering scheme doesn't match the standard pinout of the 5-pin DIN. But that's what makes this kinda thing fun!

Edited by Smokeless Joe, Mon Mar 7, 2016 7:02 AM.


#371 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 7, 2016 9:03 AM

Great upgrade, but I'm kind of a plug play kind of user.

I'm installing one of my UAV's in a 600XL I've upgraded to 64K.

I have removed the 2/3 channel switch and installed a 5 pin DIN on the MB.

I have changed the UAV jumpers for a 600.

Now I need to know which connections on the green UAV's outputs go to which pins on the DIN. I can't read a schematic so I need a bit of help here.

 

I've never really looked at those vestigial 600XL monitor pads. :)

 

The first problem is that the Luminance pad (5) is shorted to ground (2) on the bottom, so be sure to cut that trace.

It looks like sound is already hooked up on pin 3.

 

On the top, the pads from L to R are:

1. Luma

4. Comp. Video

2. Gnd

5. Chroma

3. Audio

 

The only other pad that has a trace is Composite and it looks like it goes to unstuffed (missing) components.

 

You'll also need to run a wire from pin 21 of the POKEY chip to UAV 6 (color in), otherwise you'll only get black and white. I learned that one the hard way.

 

I think you mean GTIA. ;)

Attached Thumbnails

  • 600mon.jpg
  • 600mon2.jpg


#372 Smokeless Joe OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 7, 2016 9:08 AM

Oops! Yes, I meant GTIA. Clearly I'm still learning things the hard way.

#373 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 7, 2016 9:15 AM

I want to make progress on the 7800 hookup but I can't seem to find anyone with a 7800 and an oscilloscope. It may have to wait until I get back to the US and can pick up a 7800 unless I can have one shipped to someone with a scope.



#374 orpheuswaking OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 7, 2016 9:22 AM

All my 600xls got their missing components restuffed, Where was this upgrade then ;)



#375 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 7, 2016 9:33 AM

GROUNDING:

 

With Audio and Video circuits, one of the most important things is the ground path. Single-ended signals (those that use coax) have no ability to reject noise on the ground/shield conductor (unlike balanced/XLR connections) so care must be taken to make sure that all video circuitry and connectors share a single, low impedance ground. UAV is tolerant of noise on the 5V line because it isn't used as a reference. It IS used as a DAC reference in the original Atari circuit, however.

 

Because many Atari boards don't have a clean ground path from the CD4050 socket back to the supply (that is, the ground trace is shared with digital components) there can still be noise after installing a UAV Plug-In board, especially when using the monitor DIN for output. This is because your monitor will see the nice, heavy ground plane under the DIN connector while the signals will be generated using the CD4050's noisier ground path which means the difference in the two grounds gets added to the signal.

 

When you use the DIN connector, the absolutely cleanest way to wire the UAV is to cut the center of the split pad for ground (use a razor knife, breaking the 4050 socket ground) then soldering a ground wire to a place connected to the large ground plane near the DIN port. This wire can be attached to the UAV terminal grounds in the back, or soldered to the RIGHT side of the 'G' split pad. This way, the UAV and the monitor DIN have an identical ground connection. I also allow a separate 5V line to be run to the other pad in case it's needed.

 

If you're using a Plug-In board and not wiring to an onboard video connector, then there may be a benefit to running an auxiliary ground wire to a heavy ground point nearby. We're just trying to avoid relying on ground traces that also feed digital components.

Attached Thumbnails

  • cutpad.jpg
  • gndwire.jpg






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