BillC Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Ermmm... technically you have 17 of the PCB's not 4, since the 13 cartridges are going to be using the PCB's and not imagination, correct? There are 2 different PCBs, one for a complete cased version and a bare board to fit in an original ICD SDX cartridge case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I want one of these but cannot pay until after Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmercer Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 There are 2 different PCBs, one for a complete cased version and a bare board to fit in an original ICD SDX cartridge case. Ahh, that makes more sense then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Not that it helps much, but the RTime8 cart used the same shell and could also be used for the new SDX pcb. Those seem to be rarer than original SDX carts, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 orion cart and express carts all the same shell.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) okay so the one with the shell has two switches on it and the one without the shell has no switches? What are the major differences... The real time clock code in the popular terminal programs do not require drivers.... will they still work with driver of this cart? How does the supplied driver affect memory... does it swap out the built in support of x or does it simply add on and raise mem lo? can I turn off x and still use the real time clock with real dos, pro dos, or other dos for that matter? Can I use this with my express cart and still switch back and forth with other orion/icd type carts the way the tower of power used to? ie rtime to spartax to express to other cart on top of express to last cart at top of stack/ cart switching logic preserved.... not looking to power cycle everytime I go in or out of a stacked cart... Edited December 20, 2015 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) okay so the one with the shell has two switches on it and the one without the shell has no switches? What are the major differences... One switch allows the SpartaDOS to be turned off and allow the external cart to function independently. The other switch resets the SpartaDOS so you can then do a warm reset on the Atari. Those are the only real differences. Aside from the housing. The real time clock code in the popular terminal programs do not require drivers.... will they still work with driver of this cart? I tested the RTC function to see if it would work. I used the builtin default software clock TD, DATE and TIME commands to set the date and time. Then I turned OFF the computer and left it for over 24hrs. When I came back and checked the date and time it was accurate for the new day. What this tells me is that if whatever software or hardware you are using is using these commands to set date and time it should be compatible. Secondly I did not load any disk drivers. It is builtin. We are using the Ultimate 1MB RTC code, so if whatever hardware or software you are using is compatible with that then this cartridge should be too. Thirdly once set it is using the RTC function/parts on the board to keep time. It is not software only, that has to be reset every time you turn off the computer power. Fourthly I couldn't tell you how these 'popular terminal programs' do their date and time. If they use the default software date and time SDX commands, then most likely they would. If not.... then.... How does the supplied driver affect memory... does it swap out the built in support of x or does it simply add on and raise mem lo? Based on its behavior I would say that it does not simply add on. Since we are using a specific version of SpartaDOS I would say the builtin support has been rewritten to support this specific RTC hardware combo. I am not a expert in this. Perhaps candle or one of the other SpartaDOS gurus can chime in here. I understand there is a /F switch command to swap out device drivers for other RTC devices. So it maybe possible to disable the builtin mode and load disk-based drivers for other RTC devices. can I turn off x and still use the real time clock with real dos, pro dos, or other dos for that matter? You're refering to two separate cartridges here. The SpartaDOS and RTime8. I believe you could disable either or both individually, but since this cart is not two separate cartriges built into one, I highly doubt it. They are integrated, when you turn off the SpartaDOS, you turn off the entire feature set. It then becomes a dumb cartridge extender. Can I use this with my express cart and still switch back and forth with other orion/icd type carts the way the tower of power used to? ie rtime to spartax to express to other cart on top of express to last cart at top of stack/ cart switching logic preserved.... not looking to power cycle everytime I go in or out of a stacked cart... Now will XYZ program function perfectly and without modification......? Will this or that hardware glitz or hiccup? It depends as always on factors that can't be tested unless you have all the software and hardware ever built for the Atari. Then test it with every known combination you can think of. That is not realistic for someone who is doing this in their second bedroom turned hobby shop. I still can't afford everything made for the Atari. Heck even back in the day that was a real issue, sometimes with no solution. There's been no deliberate action to remove any feature of the original cartridge. But I'd have to say your mileage may vary. Edited December 20, 2015 by Dropcheck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 Update on order progress: Currently with 3 more weeks in the order window SpartaDOS Cartridge 20 (5 more needed to make) SpartaDOS PCB 6 (19 more needed to make) No reserved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Not sure how all the terminal programs handle it either but... Ice-T, Amodem, Express etc etc all seem to get the real time directly from reading the r time 8 hardware, not from the DOS, which is probably why they read the time across DOS types... not sure how bbs pro handles it but I would suspect several parts of it would handle it the same. nice to have it work across the DOS's if possible. Should be easy enough to load ice-t 2.80 and see if it works... just look over to the right hand sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 If this cart uses a DS1305 then any direct hardware reads expecting to find an RTime-8 will fail. But then again, software which bypasses the well documented API and accesses the hardware directly in order to get the system time from an RTC which has become rare, expensive, and dependent on an RTC chip which is now difficult to source wasn't very forward-thinking. As for the desire to use a different DOS, if only the software had checked for Sparta/SDX and used the API if present, then used direct hardware access as a fallback, there wouldn't be a problem. And all to provide compatibility with disk operating systems which do not even time/date stamp filenames. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 The cart uses the DS1305 for RTC. So if any software or hardware is bypassing the API then it sounds like it would fail on this cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle_jedi Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Interested in a cartridge with case, but before I order, will it fit in a 1200XL without having to hack the cartridge port? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) Real time display in terminals are good things, as it is easy to loose yourself while online in irc or on a bbs.... Some DOS's do stamp, some don't, didn't expect it to be a sore subject..... We use a number of DOS that time stamp files not just Sparta X. That is why I had to know if it would work.... Would have been great to have the real time available when sparta x was off and we would be using Real Dos 3 or any of the disk based Sparta DOS's /Pro DOS etc.. with other projects such as the BBS's I am trying to re-construct... Pro or TCPIP Express or any number of uses for that matter... I was really excited to see this project. Full of hope and promise.I think it will help a number of people and will suit their needs perfectly.. The good news is another real time avenue exists and now I wonder if I could use this Sparta Cart with that r time cart...being able to just pop the one cartridge on and off the stack rather than taking them all off and on... It could if the only thing that has been changed in the cart is a driver then we can still have it all. That could be cool.... that being said X is not the only time stamping DOS, time clock in any DOS is still useful...That leads to a new question.... Atarimax 8 mbit cart does not work with real time 8 and can mess it up because of the way it banks.... So still wanting to use this cartridge... would it's banking scheme still work with r time 8 or other stacked carts... If it will I am in. Edited December 25, 2015 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 Interested in a cartridge with case, but before I order, will it fit in a 1200XL without having to hack the cartridge port? The Super SpartaDOS Cartridge uses the KM-20 shells. I have heard that sometimes there is a problem with their width on a 1200XL. Some people have said that you can shave the sides slightly to get a fit. It's not the cartridge port, but the funnel like enclosure around the port that is the problem. If you have a original SpartaDOS cartridge, the pcb version would be better for a 1200XL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 That leads to a new question.... Atarimax 8 mbit cart does not work with real time 8 and can mess it up because of the way it banks.... So still wanting to use this cartridge... would it's banking scheme still work with r time 8 or other stacked carts... If it will I am in. The Super SpartaDOS Cartridge has been tested with normal cartridges,(ATARI BASIC/LOGO etc) and Panos's 4in1/5in1 OSS cart. I have tested it with an orange BASIC XL cart. It works. I don't have any other stacked carts to test with. No r time 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 It worked with BASIC XL? Now that is promising! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 26, 2015 Author Share Posted December 26, 2015 Update: Current status: Items paid for with two more weeks to go Super SpartaDOS Cartridge 21 (4 more needed to make) Super SpartaDOS PCB 6 (19 more needed to make) None on reserve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Update: Current status: Items paid for with two more weeks to go Super SpartaDOS Cartridge 21 (4 more needed to make) Super SpartaDOS PCB 6 (19 more needed to make) None on reserve Nothing has changed here. Except the order window will close in 6 days. At this time we are close to the Super SpartaDOS Cartridge being a reality. Only four more. The PCB version however is on life support. It doesn't necessarily mean I can't do a small run, but the cost may go up. I am pricing now to see how doing a much smaller run will affect the cost. The major chips are the same, no buttons and no case, but the passives are not the same size. Probably won't be much though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Still no change to report. Only four more days left. I'd hate to have to pull the plug on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender II Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I really want to buy both of these, but my concern is the cartridge version is too wide. If you would make the PCB for it narrower so that it can fit in that case as well as a narrower one that will fit the 1200XL, I would jump on it. I can't afford to buy 4 of the cartridge version or I would. I can buy two of the cartridge version (as I said I would like the PCB of the cartridge version narrower) and would like two of the PCB replacement version, but it doesn't look like you have enough orders. Still no change to report. Only four more days left. I'd hate to have to pull the plug on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEditor Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Hopefully the last 4 get purchased. I wish I could afford to buy more than the one I already purchased. Wouldn't it make some kind of sense to make the 21 carts and 4 boards and just make all the same board? Somehow I can't see that being a big deal. Edited January 6, 2016 by TheEditor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) I really want to buy both of these, but my concern is the cartridge version is too wide. If you would make the PCB for it narrower so that it can fit in that case as well as a narrower one that will fit the 1200XL, I would jump on it. I can't afford to buy 4 of the cartridge version or I would. I can buy two of the cartridge version (as I said I would like the PCB of the cartridge version narrower) and would like two of the PCB replacement version, but it doesn't look like you have enough orders. Hopefully the last 4 get purchased. I wish I could afford to buy more than the one I already purchased. Wouldn't it make some kind of sense to make the 21 carts and 4 boards and just make all the same board? Somehow I can't see that being a big deal. The whole point of making two different versions was to give the customer some choice. The KM-20 shell will fit a 1200XL, but it does require a bit of sanding the sides of the shell to get within the tolerances of the 1200XL slot. But not everyone has a 1200XL as their only machine and there are no problems with the rest of the Atari line. So I assumed most people would go with this option. For those with the original cartridge shell you could opt for the pcb version and avoid the mess of sanding. (And save a bit of money too ) But the price is the loss of the reset and on/off switch. Partly because there is no space for the switchs to go on the board and partly I did not want to deface the original cartridge shell. Enterprising individuals who want to add the switches themselves will no doubt be able to do so. At this point there are no viable, sustainable cartridge shell alternatives that won't raise the price, increase the labor and time for the product by a magnitude of 10 or both. I am in the US, my cohorts are in Europe. The manufacturing location will be in Greece. It takes money to move parts from the US to Europe and back. It also takes time. I don't have the skills or equipment to make the clean and proper shell modifications to the KM-20 case. I could definitely hack it up though. Whether I have someone else do it here or Panos has it done in Greece it costs money and time. So we are left with trade-offs to make it work at all. Combining the boards into one would not change the number of people ordering, just reduce the choice. There are litterally hundreds of members of AtariAge.com who own 8bit machines. And more who never bothered to register on the site, but who visit frequently. Currently only 1 pcb only order has been placed. Most orders are for the cartridge version or both. And still only 18 different individuals have ordered. At the end of the day, you will either purchase or not based on whether you want the product or not. I've lived long enough to know that if you want something bad enough you will generally find a way to get it and work around it's limitations. Otherwise you move on. I would like to see both options actually go to production. But it is out of my hands at this point. Edited January 6, 2016 by Dropcheck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEditor Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I am surprised that more have not been sold between the members here and ABBUC, if there is a difference in membership. Sure would be sad to see such a good idea and product just blow away in the wind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBuff Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 Super SpartaDOS Cartridge for me please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Update: Number ordered and paid for on my site Super SpartaDOS Cartridge 23 (Only 2 more to make) Super SpartaDOS PCB only 6 (Only 19 more to make) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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