Jump to content

Photo

Retro Freak firmware update


576 replies to this topic

#151 LadyLilith OFFLINE  

LadyLilith

    Space Invader

  • 34 posts

Posted Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:10 PM

Do we know how to run emulators on the Retro Freak yet? I've been experimenting a bit...to no success, but so far I have the FDS BIOs on my card, but when I try to play an FDS game, it prompts me for the BIOs, which I don't quite understand

 

The thing I'm looking foward to the most though is Sega CD, N64, 32X, FDS, TG CD, and whatever other emulators I can run on the Retro Freak.



#152 StephenJ OFFLINE  

StephenJ

    Moonsweeper

  • 265 posts

Posted Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:55 PM

"...The thing I'm looking foward to the most though is Sega CD, N64, 32X, FDS, TG CD, and whatever other emulators I can run on the Retro Freak..."

I hear that!



#153 MotoRacer OFFLINE  

MotoRacer

    Stargunner

  • 1,017 posts

Posted Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:50 PM

Honestly? I'm most looking forward to 3DO (and N64). Simply because while I love a few games for those systems, I never feel like it's worth having the hardware and taking up precious space in my very small game room. 

 

So what happens is that I buy one of those systems, the 5 or so games I like... play them to death, then it rots for half a year, and sell it to make room for something else. I keep most of my systems, unless I get a system I don't like. But man.. those two just don't hold my interest, and would be nice to be able to buy the games and not worry about having to save space for those two large systems on my shelf.



#154 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

Kosmic Stardust

    Princess Rescuer

  • 15,290 posts
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy

Posted Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:29 PM

N64 is an incredible gaming system. That said, it would only take a modest boost in performance, if any, to add an N64 cart port to something like the Retro Freak. Emulation of 5th gen systems are fairly mature now, so there's no reason an HD clone cannot exist. I would be surprised if the next generation of emulation clones did not provide support for N64, given it's popularity as the last cartridge based console, handhelds excluded.



#155 MotoRacer OFFLINE  

MotoRacer

    Stargunner

  • 1,017 posts

Posted Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:56 PM

N64 is an incredible gaming system. That said, it would only take a modest boost in performance, if any, to add an N64 cart port to something like the Retro Freak. Emulation of 5th gen systems are fairly mature now, so there's no reason an HD clone cannot exist. I would be surprised if the next generation of emulation clones did not provide support for N64, given it's popularity as the last cartridge based console, handhelds excluded.

 

It's a good system for sure, though another issue I have with the system is the resolution. It's so fuzzy and muddy, and honestly looks much more acceptable emulated. Unless you have a CRT, it's an ugly system to play. I even had an HDMI modded one, and it still was terrible. Having those polygons at a higher, crisp resolution would be great.

 

Is it a tech thing that's keeping them from doing this, or the patent? IE: Has enough time expired to have a clone with N64 hardware in it?


Edited by MotoRacer, Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:56 PM.


#156 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

Kosmic Stardust

    Princess Rescuer

  • 15,290 posts
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy

Posted Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:07 PM

 

It's a good system for sure, though another issue I have with the system is the resolution. It's so fuzzy and muddy, and honestly looks much more acceptable emulated. Unless you have a CRT, it's an ugly system to play. I even had an HDMI modded one, and it still was terrible. Having those polygons at a higher, crisp resolution would be great.

 

Is it a tech thing that's keeping them from doing this, or the patent? IE: Has enough time expired to have a clone with N64 hardware in it?

The reason why we are not seeing a hardware clone of N64 like we have with NES, SNES, and Genesis, is (1) the complexity of the system, and (2) the speed of the CPU, and (3) the large amount of memory cache required by N64.  8 megabytes of RAM if we include the expansion pack. Condensing all this circuitry into a single chip would be highly expensive, and much of the hardware is poorly documented, despite the fact that the patents are now expired. Thanks to expired design patents, we now have quality clone controllers that copy the design of the original N64 controllers. They started coming out last year sometime. The new N64 controllers really feel like the real thing but without horribly worn joysticks.



#157 MotoRacer OFFLINE  

MotoRacer

    Stargunner

  • 1,017 posts

Posted Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:15 PM

The reason why we are not seeing a hardware clone of N64 like we have with NES, SNES, and Genesis, is (1) the complexity of the system, and (2) the speed of the CPU, and (3) the large amount of memory cache required by N64.  8 megabytes of RAM if we include the expansion pack. Condensing all this circuitry into a single chip would be highly expensive, and much of the hardware is poorly documented, despite the fact that the patents are now expired. Thanks to expired design patents, we now have quality clone controllers that copy the design of the original N64 controllers. They started coming out last year sometime. The new N64 controllers really feel like the real thing but without horribly worn joysticks.

 

Silly question, but how is 8mb of ram taxing? I'd assume these clone are infinitely more powerful since they're emulating the system, instead of copying it chip per chip.

 

Also, what are the controllers that feel like the real thing? I wasn't aware 3rd party pads had yet caught up to Nintendo quality. Are they metal sticks or still chalky plastic?



#158 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

Kosmic Stardust

    Princess Rescuer

  • 15,290 posts
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy

Posted Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:43 PM

 

Silly question, but how is 8mb of ram taxing? I'd assume these clone are infinitely more powerful since they're emulating the system, instead of copying it chip per chip.

 

Also, what are the controllers that feel like the real thing? I wasn't aware 3rd party pads had yet caught up to Nintendo quality. Are they metal sticks or still chalky plastic?

I meant if they produce an ASIC clone rather than emulated, it would be difficult to produce. An HD clone with emulation on a cheap ARM would be far cheaper.

 

I have a couple of these clone controllers. Yobo brand instead of Hyperkin but they are the same source. Much better than previous clones and they feel almost like the real thing but no worn thumbsticks. They feel stiff at first but break in very well after a few hours of play.

mb0002_2.jpg



#159 MotoRacer OFFLINE  

MotoRacer

    Stargunner

  • 1,017 posts

Posted Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:48 PM

I meant if they produce an ASIC clone rather than emulated, it would be difficult to produce. An HD clone with emulation on a cheap ARM would be far cheaper.

 

I have a couple of these clone controllers. Yobo brand instead of Hyperkin but they are the same source. Much better than previous clones and they feel almost like the real thing but no worn thumbsticks. They feel stiff at first but break in very well after a few hours of play.

mb0002_2.jpg

 

Huh... very cool. Can the innards be swapped with an original N64 pad's shell? IE: is it the same, clip for clip, screw for screw?

 

Edit: Nevermind. Cirka.... I had TERRIBLE experience with their SNES pads. They feel pretty legit at first, but then the dpad and buttons flattened to the point of it being nearly impossible to control after about a month of light play.


Edited by MotoRacer, Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:49 PM.


#160 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

Kosmic Stardust

    Princess Rescuer

  • 15,290 posts
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy

Posted Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:59 PM

 

Huh... very cool. Can the innards be swapped with an original N64 pad's shell? IE: is it the same, clip for clip, screw for screw?

 

Edit: Nevermind. Cirka.... I had TERRIBLE experience with their SNES pads. They feel pretty legit at first, but then the dpad and buttons flattened to the point of it being nearly impossible to control after about a month of light play.

These new N64 controllers are awesome. I'll admit their NES and SNES controllers suck pretty bad though.

 

I haven't tried to open one yet to compare innards, but most of my 1st party N64 sticks are worn to some extent and every first party controller I've picked up used in recent years and tested in store, the stick has been pretty much beyond gone, ie flops over and doesn't even self center anymore.

 

I am glad to have new controllers that are comparable to the real thing. My local Game-X-Change sells these (Yobo brand) for $14.95 and IMO they're worth it. They are worlds better than the old $5.95 POS clone controllers they used to sell before the patents expired.



#161 Atariboy OFFLINE  

Atariboy

    Quadrunner

  • 6,870 posts
  • River Raider

Posted Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:56 AM

When I see these discussed, they have a name like Cirka attached to them rather than Yobo. Perhaps they realize their reputation and tried to distance themselves from it with this newer version.

 

Sadly, I see more bad reviews at various sources when I've looked after reading your praise in a few threads here than good. Any idea how many hours you've invested into it yet? You mentioned more than once about how quickly their feel changes. But while breaking in quickly and feeling better afterwards is fine, it may not be so great if it doesn't stick around in that sweet spot for very long before the quickly changing conditions in the stick mechanism and such start to create control issues. 

 

I see on StoneAgeGamer that it appears he even clearanced them out at $12 and no longer stocks them. While I may be reading too much into that, it doesn't look promising from such a popular retailer of new products for classic gaming fans. 


Edited by Atariboy, Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:38 AM.


#162 MotoRacer OFFLINE  

MotoRacer

    Stargunner

  • 1,017 posts

Posted Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:29 AM

When I see these discussed, they have a name like Cirka attached to them rather than Yobo. Perhaps they realize their reputation and tried to distance themselves from it with this newer version.
 
Sadly, I see more bad reviews at various sources when I've looked after reading your praise in a few threads here than good. Any idea how many hours you've invested into it yet? You mentioned more than once about how quickly their feel changes. But while breaking in quickly and feeling better afterwards is fine, it may not be so great if it doesn't stick around in that sweet spot for very long before the quickly changing conditions in the stick mechanism and such start to create control issues. 
 
I see on StoneAgeGamer that it appears he even clearanced them out at $12 and no longer stocks them. While I may be reading too much into that, it doesn't look promising. 


Yeah, if they're anything like the snes pads, they turn to mush about as quickly as they break in.

#163 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

Bill Loguidice

    Quadrunner

  • 5,683 posts
  • Armchair Arcade Managing Director
  • Location:Central New Jersey, USA

Posted Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:35 AM

Not that any of us necessarily wants to subject ourselves to a second Retro Freak controller, but Play Asia now has them available: http://www.play-asia...&sc1=N389366427



#164 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

Bill Loguidice

    Quadrunner

  • 5,683 posts
  • Armchair Arcade Managing Director
  • Location:Central New Jersey, USA

Posted Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:40 AM

Do we know how to run emulators on the Retro Freak yet? I've been experimenting a bit...to no success, but so far I have the FDS BIOs on my card, but when I try to play an FDS game, it prompts me for the BIOs, which I don't quite understand

 

The thing I'm looking foward to the most though is Sega CD, N64, 32X, FDS, TG CD, and whatever other emulators I can run on the Retro Freak.

 

I don't see how you can run a system like the N64 on the Retro Freak until the controller layer can support analog controllers. I would love to see Sega CD and TG CD support, although I wonder how long it would take to load in all of that data and whether it's set up properly to stream once it is.



#165 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

Kosmic Stardust

    Princess Rescuer

  • 15,290 posts
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy

Posted Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:08 PM

 

I don't see how you can run a system like the N64 on the Retro Freak until the controller layer can support analog controllers. I would love to see Sega CD and TG CD support, although I wonder how long it would take to load in all of that data and whether it's set up properly to stream once it is.

The OS doesn't need to explicitly support analog sticks. Adding it would be easy though. PS3 controllers would be great for controlling N64 titles. Left stick for analog control, right stick for C-buttons, and lower triggers for the Z-button just like a classic controller on Wii/U VC.

 

Also I see they've dropped the price on the premium down to $200. This is far more reasonable than the $244.99 they charged before. I hope they get the controller adapter back in stock some time, but right now I am glad I did not overpay for the premium bundle.



#166 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

Bill Loguidice

    Quadrunner

  • 5,683 posts
  • Armchair Arcade Managing Director
  • Location:Central New Jersey, USA

Posted Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:17 PM

The OS doesn't need to explicitly support analog sticks. Adding it would be easy though. PS3 controllers would be great for controlling N64 titles. Left stick for analog control, right stick for C-buttons, and lower triggers for the Z-button just like a classic controller on Wii/U VC.

 

How would you configure the controller, then? There are only options to map digital functions, and not much beyond a d-pad and six buttons. You can't presently map an analog stick on anything. Also, in my testing of a wireless Bluetooth controller where the analog stick actually did produce output (probably with how it was wired), it would crash the game.



#167 MotoRacer OFFLINE  

MotoRacer

    Stargunner

  • 1,017 posts

Posted Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:40 PM

Thanks for posting that, Bill. Though, I agree, I wouldn't buy one to save my life. 

 

If you happen to see them posting more of those control port converter boxes though, please let us know. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

 

Still debating buying that GG-SG1000 converter. I'm hoping we get an update that allows SG-1000 and 3000 support before long instead.



#168 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

Bill Loguidice

    Quadrunner

  • 5,683 posts
  • Armchair Arcade Managing Director
  • Location:Central New Jersey, USA

Posted Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:47 PM

Thanks for posting that, Bill. Though, I agree, I wouldn't buy one to save my life. 

 

If you happen to see them posting more of those control port converter boxes though, please let us know. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

 

Still debating buying that GG-SG1000 converter. I'm hoping we get an update that allows SG-1000 and 3000 support before long instead.

 

Yeah, hopefully the update is not dependent upon plugging in the Sega converter like it is with the controller port converter. I mean, I already ordered one for myself, but it would suck if others were cut out of such a feature.



#169 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

Kosmic Stardust

    Princess Rescuer

  • 15,290 posts
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy

Posted Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:54 PM

Well hardware SMS converters work on the Rfreak and Retron5 so there isn't anything unusual going on with the pin adapters. Sadly the people who developed the Retrode 2 made an SMS adapter that was incompatible with real hardware, also making real hardware adapters like the SMS Mini not work on the retrode. They got it right with Retron5 and presumably the Retro Freak uses the same hardware/software layout, so here's hoping everything works. SMS and GG are very similar but they share enough hardware differences that games for one system won't work on the other without serious modding. Emulation is easy peasy to get around hardware differences however.



#170 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

Bill Loguidice

    Quadrunner

  • 5,683 posts
  • Armchair Arcade Managing Director
  • Location:Central New Jersey, USA

Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:44 AM

Well hardware SMS converters work on the Rfreak and Retron5 so there isn't anything unusual going on with the pin adapters. Sadly the people who developed the Retrode 2 made an SMS adapter that was incompatible with real hardware, also making real hardware adapters like the SMS Mini not work on the retrode. They got it right with Retron5 and presumably the Retro Freak uses the same hardware/software layout, so here's hoping everything works. SMS and GG are very similar but they share enough hardware differences that games for one system won't work on the other without serious modding. Emulation is easy peasy to get around hardware differences however.

 

Understood, but the fact of the matter is you can already run SMS/Mark III and GG ROMs without issue on the Retro Freak, but you can't as of yet run SG-1000 ROMs. I mean, that's not a major loss considering the small size of the library and that most of the games are available in some form or the other on platforms it does support, but it is an odd omission and one that will HAVE to be addressed (otherwise it's false advertise) once the official adapter is in our hands.

 

On a side note, I assume the card catcher will work with the adapter as well. I'll be sure to try to remember to give that a try once I get the adapter next month.



#171 LiqMat OFFLINE  

LiqMat

    Dragonstomper

  • 598 posts

Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:33 PM

Not that any of us necessarily wants to subject ourselves to a second Retro Freak controller, but Play Asia now has them available: http://www.play-asia...&sc1=N389366427

 

Actually ordered a few. I guess I am one of the few who actually like the stock controller.



#172 LadyLilith OFFLINE  

LadyLilith

    Space Invader

  • 34 posts

Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:09 PM

 

Actually ordered a few. I guess I am one of the few who actually like the stock controller.

 

Compared to the Retron 5 stock controller, it's MILES better.  I really like it, was expecting a terrible pack in controller like the R5.



#173 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

Bill Loguidice

    Quadrunner

  • 5,683 posts
  • Armchair Arcade Managing Director
  • Location:Central New Jersey, USA

Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:08 PM

 

Compared to the Retron 5 stock controller, it's MILES better.  I really like it, was expecting a terrible pack in controller like the R5.

 

The RetroN 5 controller eventually grew on me. I consider it far more responsive than the one with the Retro Freak, which feels a bit hollow and mushy.



#174 LiqMat OFFLINE  

LiqMat

    Dragonstomper

  • 598 posts

Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:11 PM

 

Compared to the Retron 5 stock controller, it's MILES better.  I really like it, was expecting a terrible pack in controller like the R5.

 

 

 

The RetroN 5 controller eventually grew on me. I consider it far more responsive than the one with the Retro Freak, which feels a bit hollow and mushy.

 

I'm with LadyLilith on this. Retron Freak stock controller is by far my favorite between the two. I bought a couple more of the Retron Freak controllers for my PC emus as well.


Edited by LiqMat, Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:13 PM.


#175 LiqMat OFFLINE  

LiqMat

    Dragonstomper

  • 598 posts

Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:15 AM

They're baaaaaaaaack....   -------->>>>>>   http://www.play-asia...apter/13/708vvx






0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users