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Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?


phoenixdownita

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Well, if I knew where to get my hands on an Atari Jaguar shell I would house my emulator system in that.

 

You wouldn't wanna stink up the house would you? Those fumes..

 

 

Good for you! It's never been easier. The emulators are mature, full-featured, and user friendly. ROMs are easy to find. You don't need a system with a lot of power, which is why Android and Raspberry Pi are fine options. There are custom emulators for every system imaginable, but RetroArch is a nice do-it-all solution once you have it set up. It's not as hard as this guide makes it sound. http://lifehacker.com/how-to-set-up-an-all-in-one-retro-game-emulator-with-re-1745863517

 

Good points. My old Pentium III 350MHz has enough gas to run Stella at full speed with the blargg TV effects going full tilt! It will also run many of the early era MAME games too.

 

Modern emulation has been in development since 1995. That's a lot of time to drill down the details and get things up to snuff.

 

A few posts back you mentioned backups. This is key for me. Years ago I lost a lot of things, carts, consoles, other electronics, things like that. And while insurance covered the fees to replace them, they didn't cover the time and fees involved in tracking down those replacements. So it became a bust. Had I been doing a virtual collection it would have been as simple as restoring from backup. A virtual collection is always safe! The worst catastrophe can blast your rig. And you can be back up and playing in no time!

 

 

Neither can beat the raw power and emu/tool library of a Windows PC, though. My major gripe over many systems is the OS is too obvious and takes a while to boot. I know I'm being picky but Win10 has made progress and is also pretty fast on an SSD, and (for a bit more money) there are miniature i5-based windows PC starting to appear. So I guess the offerings for RPi felt too limited as a comparison. That might change when distros dedicated to emulation become mature.

 

The tool kit a modern PC offers is really astounding. You can use it as a document viewer on one screen, game on the other, and iTunes (or your favorite music player) on the third. And the internet on the forth. If you so desire.

 

A PC offers you a fantastic file organization system. You can keep your logbook on it. You can modify and create new games on it. You can organize your carts, 'uhh ROMS, on it how you see fit. Some emulators support recording, and game saves. Great for working through a difficult area. You have access to arcade machine dip switches and cheats if you want to explore a certain part of a game or test limits.

 

You can have multiple instances or versions or configurations of any emulator for any game that needs manhandling. Luckily thats pretty rare.

 

The list goes on! Ohh what I wouldn't have given back in the day to have something like even a basic PC! That was was the only thing that disappointed me about the Apple II. It would never evolve into such an all-in-one machine. I would have to wait nearly 20 years for such machine to exist.

 

On FPGAs.. I neither like them nor dislike them. But I have yet to be impressed by them. I can appreciate their accuracy and stability, but that only comes as a result of the developer's efforts. You can end up with a crappy FPGA simulation and a superior software emulation. I tend to dislike FPGA's lack amenities for the end-user, like savestates and a comprehensive file system. The file system is key to working with and growing a virtual collection.

 

If you have a dedicated emulation computer you can have a clear black desktop with icons for each system or special favorite game. Hide everything else like the toolkit in a folder and put it in the corner. This helps get rid of the PC'ness and feel. I believe you'll find this way of doing business is superior to scrolling through lists of games.

 

If you want to play arcade stuff you click on "Classic Arcade Games" then click on the game you want. Two clicks. If you're playing Atari 400/800 you start the emulator with 1 click, then you can open a folder with thousands of disk images and drag-n-drop your choice on the emulator window. It can't get any simpler! And adding and subtracting from your library is also drag-n-drop simple!

 

Once you segue from system to system, game to game, you won't wanna go back to plugging and unplugging cartridges. Wiring and re-wiring systems. Unless cart swapping and system changing is a fetish of some kind you can't do without.

 

 

I still only play intellivision coleco a8 computer and 7800 all on a 27" Hitachi CRT. I would not have it any other way. Oh btw 80% of them have rf. We are playing old consoles here who gives a crap about video upgrade lcd hdmi flim flams. If I cared about that I would play on my hd tv on a modern system.

 

I feel it is important to care about video upgrades and lcd hdmi flim flams because those displays and interfaces are what's being made now for the foreseeable future.

 

But rather than convert the RF signal to HDMI.. I would rather start at ground level and synthesize the game image natively entirely in the digital domain by using modern-day contemporary hardware.

Edited by Keatah
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I've been enjoying myself at PAX South so I've been missing out on what's happening here.

 

But today I visited an amazing retro indie game dev's booth (who I won't name). These guys actually have their game working on an NES cart! While I was playing their game I asked their programmer "alright guys, seriously, when is this going to appear on the Retro VGS?" and he instantly broke out in laughter. Then he explained to me that he had actually been contacted by Mike before the IndieGoGo campaign.

 

So yeah, I haven't checked out Mike's new sizzle reel. Probably best that I don't right now, I've seen too many good indies at this show so I need to cleanse my pallet first.

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To be sincere, I was against those 9-pin Controller ports being on the System. To me that was just useless cost. But if they're actually putting Colecovision Emulation in this, I do think having compatibility witht he Coleco Controllers would have been nice. Either that, or they just make a ColecoVision USB Controller in collaboration with Coleco. That would be something nice to see. Of course, If the Quality is there. In my oppinion they should actually even try to make a Controller that can Play all the games but is even better. Maybe with a d-pad, or a better stick, but keeping (and improving upon) the number pad Thing.

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Maybe the INTV and COLECO games shown are multicarts and included as pack-ins with the system? That could be a very good thing.

Their Facebook page states that they're compilations on cartridge(s). Bundling them as pack-ins would make them much more compelling to me as well. But they haven't said that's what would be happening.
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Their Facebook page states that they're compilations on cartridge(s). Bundling them as pack-ins would make them much more compelling to me as well. But they haven't said that's what would be happening.

 

Including those or something else as a pack-ins would earn them some good will.

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I'm going to guess this thing is nothing more than an Android based emulator that runs ROMs through a cartridge. No FPGA or anything like that. I can't help but notice the made in the USA and built to last a life time stuff is all removed. Think more or a watered down Oyua, due to it lacking any form of online store or UI.

 

Piko is back on board from the looks of the trailer. That's cool, they're good people and their games are a lot of fun. Everyone should play Dorke and Ymp, Quest Forge and Super 3D Noah's Ark. I also really enjoyed Water Margin. Piko even sent me a steam key for Super 3D Noah's Ark long after I purchased a CiB copy of it form them for Super Famicom. I wish nothing but good things for Piko because they're about as "real" and down to earth as you can get as a publisher. Its great to see Piko on another platform, I just hope that they don't get screwed over in anyway.

 

However, if you take away Piko, what's left? CollectorVision's Sydney Hunter and the Caverns of Death (which was supposed to come out Jan 2016 and did not) and a bunch of Coleco and Intellavision flashback titles. I guess you can spin it and say there are 20+ launch titles. I suspect we won't see any of this until Decemberish so that's plenty of time to get other people on board I suppose.

 

So, I guess it all comes down to price. What are you willing to pay for this console when we find out what's inside of it and what it can do? Are you willing to purchase one after everything that has transpired?

 

As it stands, every game that the Chameleon has listed for it is available to play on another platform. Almost every game has a physical version available else where. I believe Jim Powers is the only exception to this but I could be mistaken. I'm curious to see how Intellavision games would be with a third party wii u controller and no overlays. If this thing is around $99.99 with two controllers and a pack in game, I'd consider buying one IF it has a flashback's worth of games on one cartridge. However, I highly doubt that the people behind it would release something like that. $149.99 is simply too much, HDMI out or not.

 

That's a pretty big step for me since I said multiple times I would never consider buying one. I still think the whole thing is dead in the water.

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The latest update to their Facebook page contains the same video with the games we saw linked earlier here along with the usual "See you at the Toy Fair!" coupled with an announcement they are - actually - returning to Kickstarter in February.
That means that apparently the deal with "Coleco" or anyone else didn't include enough investment to cover the launch of the console, and as such they are going to look for crowdfunding again. We have all seen the catastrophic results from their previous attempt at Kickstarter and that IndieGoGo debacle. Will the Coleco branding help them this time? Will they look for less than 2 million? Will the future of this console after all this "hype" depend on the KS being successful or not?

Honestly i don't get it. It could backfire big-time. Again.

If they start the Kickstarter before the fair any eventual low numbers on that might seriously put off any potential investors as some kind of impromptu "market research" showing them that there isn't so much interest in it, and using something like "Currently on Kickstarter!" or the like in their campaign on the fair could deflate their venture. On the other hand if they launch the KS post-fair, trying to attract buyers on a fair like that with a product that isn't funded yet and telling people they are on the way to crowdfund it could also put off potential buyers, or at least make them call back after they see the KS result and not sign any deals right then and there. I admit i'm not an expert in these dealings by any stretch of the imagination, but i've seen enough failed dreams and project flops to have a small grasp of the situation.

And on the notion of the controllers i will return to something i pondered earlier: Why not use the Jag's original controller, or some modified form of it? Especially if you are going to bring a lot of Coleco and Inty games that were made to use a keypad, that would be the logical choice for me. I cannot fathom how you will make those games work fluently with a Wii U-gamepad. Recreating molds for it shouldn't be too hard, if the originals are lost to the mists of time. Getting the rights to use it shouldn't be so much of a problem either as there is hardly any big market interest around the Jag-controller anymore.

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...

And on the notion of the controllers i will return to something i pondered earlier: Why not use the Jag's original controller, or some modified form of it? Especially if you are going to bring a lot of Coleco and Inty games that were made to use a keypad, that would be the logical choice for me. I cannot fathom how you will make those games work fluently with a Wii U-gamepad. Recreating molds for it shouldn't be too hard, if the originals are lost to the mists of time. Getting the rights to use it shouldn't be so much of a problem either as there is hardly any big market interest around the Jag-controller anymore.

 

If they used Jag ctrl and at that a "remake" of the Pro (6 buttons + shoulder) it'll make 2 sets of users happy.

But that is not gonna happen so may as well move on .... but agreed that Coleco/INTV games would benefit a lot from a keypad-joypad.

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Good for you! It's never been easier. The emulators are mature, full-featured, and user friendly. ROMs are easy to find. You don't need a system with a lot of power, which is why Android and Raspberry Pi are fine options. There are custom emulators for every system imaginable, but RetroArch is a nice do-it-all solution once you have it set up. It's not as hard as this guide makes it sound. http://lifehacker.com/how-to-set-up-an-all-in-one-retro-game-emulator-with-re-1745863517

After reading that link yesterday, today I put in an order for some computer stuff. I'm just going to build myself a box. I think I can do it.

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After reading that link yesterday, today I put in an order for some computer stuff. I'm just going to build myself a box. I think I can do it.

 

Hoorrraaayy 4 U !! Of course you can. You cannot get a better classic gaming experience than a box full of emulators. It will be something you grow with and modify and configure to your exact preferences. Back in the day whenever I walked out of the arcades I always wondered when I'd be able to play them at home. It took 10 years for emulation to get underway. 1984-1994.. And nearly another 20 years for the necessary refinements to happen. During some of that time I collected full-size arcade cabinets. But even with a good-sized area it became crowded and rather diluted; meaning X amount of square meters = perhaps 25 or so games. Emulation reverses that trend and stomps on it completely by putting thousands of games in a quarter-cubic meter. A few cubic centimeters if you shrink it to the extreme. A whole new paradigm.

 

Rather than look at emulation as a complete and total replacement for your existing original hardware, consider it a complement and addition to your gaming arsenal. Enjoy the best of both worlds in a balance that makes you happy. Keep your VCS, Intellivision, ColecoVision, and whatever, and co-complement it with a classic emulation machine.

 

And if you dig arcade machines, you'll want to play more than 1 or 2 cabinets(games). With emulation you can. Otherwise your only other option is to drive 50 klicks to the nearest arcade (during business hours) and hope they have what you wanna play in working order. Or build your own arcade in the basement.

 

While an arcade in the basement sounds awesome, it quickly becomes a burden and I started wondering about other ideas and uses for the space. I had several thousand square-ft set aside for an in-home arcade and just seemed so wasteful. Not everyone enjoys rows of arcade games. But everyone can enjoy a plush cozy chillout mood lounge, theater, and rec area. 1 arcade cabinet will do, thank you!

 

There came a point in time the basement was too crowded to host any parties or just enjoy some roomy space. The more games I got, the more the social gatherings migrated to other areas. Oh, the guests played the games alright. But as a hangout area, it flopped.

 

And one final thing, I said enough is enough when 3 of my favorite games went down in a month's time. And it took another month to track down parts and get them installed. If your emulation machine breaks, parts are a few days away at most, via Newegg, Amazon, or eBay.

 

Favorite arcade games: Star Wars, I'Robot, Liberator, Tac/Scan, Gyruss, Tempest, Missile Command, Earth Friend Mission, RoadBlasters, Blasteroids, TimePilot, Assault, Star Wars, Discs of Tron, Super Space Invaders'91, S.T.U.N. Runner, Star Jacker, 1942, Star Trek, Xevious, Crystal Castles, Zaxxon, Sprint 2, Moon Patrol, Lunar Lander, TimePilot '84, Centipede, Pole Position. Many more. And not forgetting the various home versions and ports and variations.

Edited by Keatah
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I took a look at the facebook page. They still seem pretty big on housings and cartridge shells. I would have hoped to see something of the actual games running or something more about the hardware. If they haven't talked about the hardware yet, it's either very stunning and worthy of keeping a secret. Or it's disappointingly lame-o.

 

IDK, But I find it rather incongruent they'd be able to design a long-lasting, spanning-the-years, versatile console in only a few months. Not unless they're using pre-built boards and existing SOCs - in which case it's gonna be ho-hum and boring. But they do say they have a full-blown FPGA in it. I wonder what that means? Plenty of "suspense" and mis-direction to keep U interested 2 B Shure.

 

Anyhow, judging by the facebook contents it seems all they have to do is have a few classic intellivision/atari/colecovision titles and everyone goes apeshit, reliving their childhood and all that.

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If they start the Kickstarter before the fair any eventual low numbers on that might seriously put off any potential investors as some kind of impromptu "market research" showing them that there isn't so much interest in it, and using something like "Currently on Kickstarter!" or the like in their campaign on the fair could deflate their venture. On the other hand if they launch the KS post-fair, trying to attract buyers on a fair like that with a product that isn't funded yet and telling people they are on the way to crowdfund it could also put off potential buyers, or at least make them call back after they see the KS result and not sign any deals right then and there. I admit i'm not an expert in these dealings by any stretch of the imagination, but i've seen enough failed dreams and project flops to have a small grasp of the situation.

 

Well, you have to remember- Mike is not Coleco, it's just a licensed name deal. The real owners of the Coleco name couldn't care less about who Mike is as long as the check clears. Even his Facebook is still Retro VGS, the best way to think of it is "The Coleco Chameleon by Retro Video Game Systems, Inc."

 

So it's not his booth, it's Coleco's and from what I hear Mike's console is just one of other Coleco products that will be there. They probably had the booth lined up since mid 2015 and invited Mike to join them after he climbed on board to license the name. You make some good points, it'll be difficult at best and awkward at worst to find a buyer/distributor/retailer at the toy fair if they're planning a Kickstarter to start the production line.

 

It's clear that Mike is not at the toy fair with the same mindset as other vendors (or at least he shouldn't be). I think it's more of case of him needing a very controlled environment to show off his prototype and he figured he might be able to find media there too.

 

 

And on the notion of the controllers i will return to something i pondered earlier: Why not use the Jag's original controller, or some modified form of it?

 

He doesn't have the molds. The tooling company didn't keep them. They serve no purpose when you're making dental equipment.

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Rather than look at emulation as a complete and total replacement for your existing original hardware, consider it a complement and addition to your gaming arsenal. Enjoy the best of both worlds in a balance that makes you happy. Keep your VCS, Intellivision, ColecoVision, and whatever, and co-complement it with a classic emulation machine.

 

This, so much this. I've actually gone the opposite route, from being a pure emulation guy since the beginning of it (except for latest consoles) to wanting to have a few of the real machines.

 

That said, one part where I think emulation is preferable is for 3D graphics. PS2 or Wii games on a modern PC look fantastic, and some N64 games have texture upgrades for them.

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He doesn't have the molds. The tooling company didn't keep them. They serve no purpose when you're making dental equipment.

I know that, we went over that earlier and that is why i put in the "recreate the molds"-thing in there. It shouldn't be too hard to reproduce, and i have a hard time imagining that any eventual rights to it would be hard to get too as there is hardly any market value worth defending over them these days. Still i can't fathom how a CV or Inty-game would work fluently on a Wii-U gamepad with all the different setups that different games use, and going for a controller with a keypad could make it dirt easy.

 

It won't happen though, as that would probably be too expensive for a team that has been making points for months about how much money they saved on dem Jagwire molds, and are looking for Kickstarter-cash for a 3rd time now.

 

Also, i thought that "Coleco" that owns the rights (Coleco Holdings, right?) would rather see this one succeed, as most companies tend to dislike licensed products that flop big-time, dragging the name in the dirt with them. But having watched that "Coleco handheld"-video of yours that was stuffed with Sega games i can't really wrap my head around their business model either.

Edited by Raticon
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I believe the controller-related molds were just about the only things not in the mold set. At least, that was the case when travistouchdown contacted the previous owner (before Mike got the molds). I want to say that Mike once said one of the CD-unit molds was missing (like the bottom of the unit), but I'm not certain.

 

At any rate, if he had controller molds you could bet he'd be using them somehow. :grin:

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Well, everything in that video can be done with the AtGames Sega Genesis console from 2014. It even accepts cartridges. Insides it's an ARM SoC running an emulator. They used similar hardware minus the cartridge slot for the 2015 Intellivision and Colecovision flashbacks. It's not hard to imagine they just licensed the boards and ROM packs from AtGames. I bet the systems had some way to flash the firmware from an external cart- at least during development- so making the cartridge change the internal emulator would be no big deal. Maybe the FPGA is the wimpy one salvaged from the first iteration of the RVGS that was going to handle the HDMI output. Heck, AtGames may even have a ton of unsold boards that they were looking to unload. It would give the CC an instant set of three emulators- or four if they can find someone at the company calling itself Atari that thinks it won't cut into their Steam sales. It would also buy Mike time to find more homebrews or cheap licenses for those three emulators. He might even be able to commission new emulator cores although nothing too taxing for that hardware. SNES might even be pushing it without framerate drops. So basically we have sub-Ouya hardware minus an OS and any networking capabilities. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with for the controller to work with all those Colecovision and Intellivision games. I thought maybe they'd want to exclude keypad-heavy games, but Utopia is in there. Good luck playing that without overlays.

Edited by atm94404
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The youtube recommendations are based on channels habits from browsing history and cookies stored in your PC...

 

Nope, not the case here.

 

That screenshot was taken in incognito mode because I wanted to see what Keatah saw and didn't want my cookies to affect the results. See here:

 

rvgs_013116_video_incog2.png

 

The reason my videos come up is because of popularity and tags. That Coleco Sonic handheld review is very old so it had a lot of time to become popular and since it's been tagged as Coleco since day 1, it shows up easily. Tags are something I have direct control over and you better believe I added "Coleco Chameleon" to all my RVGS videos once the announcement was made. Which brings us to why the John Carlsen video appears- not only is it now tagged with Coleco Chameleon, but it became very popular very quickly because for a while it was the only way to watch John's video after he took it down so news sites were linking to it constantly.

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