Bill Loguidice Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Well, everything in that video can be done with the AtGames Sega Genesis console from 2014. It even accepts cartridges. Insides it's an ARM SoC running an emulator. They used similar hardware minus the cartridge slot for the 2015 Intellivision and Colecovision flashbacks. It's not hard to imagine they just licensed the boards and ROM packs from AtGames. I bet the systems had some way to flash the firmware from an external cart- at least during development- so making the cartridge change the internal emulator would be no big deal. Maybe the FPGA is the wimpy one salvaged from the first iteration of the RVGS that was going to handle the HDMI output. Heck, AtGames may even have a ton of unsold boards that they were looking to unload. It would give the CC an instant set of three emulators- or four if they can find someone at the company calling itself Atari that thinks it won't cut into their Steam sales. It would also buy Mike time to find more homebrews or cheap licenses for those three emulators. He might even be able to commission new emulator cores although nothing too taxing for that hardware. SNES might even be pushing it without framerate drops. So basically we have sub-Ouya hardware minus an OS and any networking capabilities. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with for the controller to work with all those Colecovision and Intellivision games. I thought maybe they'd want to exclude keypad-heavy games, but Utopia is in there. Good luck playing that without overlays. AtGames has no involvement whatsoever with this. Also, the Sega Genesis Classic Console is different from the other Flashbacks, which do use the same hardware base. The Sega product uses a Genesis on a chip implementation, while the others are the type of setup (standard chipset and custom software layer) you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I understand the economics of the situation, but if the Chameleon launch game is one of these two, I'm a lot less interested in the package since it'd be like a wasted game for me. While I recognize the value and playtime these multicarts could bring, I am not buying this system to play old, already established games on, especially as the pack-in. Having said this, I TOTALLY get the perceived value in this for the average fan who doesn't have a Colecovision and doesn't care to try out the unique control scheme on a Flashback. HDMI is obviously a huge plus. If these are the pack-in games, however, eh, it's kind of underwhelming to buy a Coleco Chameleon to play Colecovision games. It isn't a bad marketing ploy at all, but it would lack the integrity of a Mario Duck/Hunt, Combat or even Altered Beast and Sonic 2 on the Genesis, etc. The Coleco Chameleon pack-in title is... not even a new, original game, let alone an original game released for the Chameleon. It seems off, but if that's what it takes to get their product off the ground with a quality library, then I guess that's what it takes. I'm not gonna shit on the reality of the economics of the situation. The fact that all the games they seemingly have coming out at launch are available for systems people already own on real carts for those systems does not bode well for the Chameleon versions unless they're significantly cheaper. I'm looking at that Water Margin game and thinking how it's right up my alley, yet how ridiculous it would be to spend that kind of dough on a game like that in this day and age. It's one thing to drop $40 on a homebrew game made from the ground up for an old system 20 or 30 years later, sold by the developer and made for such a small amount of people, it's another thing to pay the same price for a corporate product. The beauty of the plug n' play games, say what you will about your quality, is on clearance or discount, you get something out of those no matter what. You got your 200 games. The Chameleon will be such that even on clearance, it'd be totally useless because cartridges would likely be impossible to find. If I was a store owner, I would tread with extreme caution as to how many of these I have in stock. In this regard, shovelware or not, I wish that the Chameleon could bridge the plug n' play gap with a premium audience as well (ie: the ones buying carts), but I really believe Coleco licensed their old ass games cheap and that was the ultimate factor. I can't deny the value, but I hope these games are budget releases and not pack-in titles. I actually made a post and had to go before I finished it, so I never posted it about how multicarts would be great on the system, it's just when the games are the same ones they've been dumping out for over a decade on plug n' plays and the like, there is a lack of demand for it. It's treated as kind of a red headed stepchild just from being whored out so much. The play value is great if you've never been down this road before, but by now, who hasn't? And if they haven't, it's not like there is a lot of value in that cartridge when you can just get Intellivision Lives for PS2 for $7. And let's not kid ourselves, the audience for this system is the NES/16-bit generation, not earlier. Ultimately, by trying to make this console corporate, things like (and again, I'm predicting here), putting 60 Intellivision games as your pack-in is a corporate necessity and not really in the best interest of the consumers who are buying the product. Since the idea was to play new, retro games on cartridges all along, no? Without a doubt a system benefits in one way or another from every piece of software in its library, but I do predict people scoffing at going down the Intellivision compilation road again and releasing games that are gonna get a legit-ish Genesis release anyways without necessitating new hardware. If the people find value if the pack-in is indeed a multicart, then it may boost the console into just enough homes to get subsequent games targeted at what the console was supposed to do in the first place in having new, original games on carts. If the people scoff and look at it like a cheap, joke plug n' play product, then I think it's fucked from jump street and will never recover. It smells of an "As Seen on TV" product trying to get you to shell out $1xx on a Chameleon before chiming in "BUT wait, there's more! Buy now and get a free Intellivision plug n' play with 60 classic games! My view is Mike has no games for this thing, nor any sort of assured vision in place to get games out for it, and the cheapest way he could drum up interest and deliver content is to partner with Coleco and churn out the same games that are always churned out to weather the storm. While a good value theoretically, it also shows how the console's future is really backed into a corner. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) http://www.nintendoloveaffair.com/2016/01/coleco-chameleon-launch-titles-unveiled.html Not sure the RVGS guys literally intended the video to showcase the offering but hey The complete list of 8-bit launch titles includes:Choplifter - ColecovisionFrenzy - ColecovisionJumpman Junior - ColecovisionVenture - ColecovisionPepper II - ColecovisionMontezuma's Revenge - ColecovisionGateway to Apshai - ColecovisionArmor Battle - IntellivisionAstrosmash - IntellivisionFrog Bog - IntellivisionShark! Shark! - IntellivisionSpace Armada - IntellivisonB-17 Bomber - IntellivisionNight Stalker - IntellivisionThin Ice - IntellivisionThunder Castle - IntellivisionTower of Doom - IntellivisionUtopia - Intellivision16-bit offerings include (no systems mentioned):Dorke and YmpLegendIron Commando: Koutetsu No SenshiJim Power: The Lost DimensionBattle Brave SagaSydney Hunter: The Cavers of DeathApocalypse IIWater Margin Edited February 2, 2016 by phoenixdownita 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Well, everything in that video can be done with the AtGames Sega Genesis console from 2014. It even accepts cartridges. Insides it's an ARM SoC running an emulator. They used similar hardware minus the cartridge slot for the 2015 Intellivision and Colecovision flashbacks. It's not hard to imagine they just licensed the boards and ROM packs from AtGames. I bet the systems had some way to flash the firmware from an external cart- at least during development- so making the cartridge change the internal emulator would be no big deal. Maybe the FPGA is the wimpy one salvaged from the first iteration of the RVGS that was going to handle the HDMI output. Heck, AtGames may even have a ton of unsold boards that they were looking to unload. It would give the CC an instant set of three emulators- or four if they can find someone at the company calling itself Atari that thinks it won't cut into their Steam sales. It would also buy Mike time to find more homebrews or cheap licenses for those three emulators. He might even be able to commission new emulator cores although nothing too taxing for that hardware. SNES might even be pushing it without framerate drops. So basically we have sub-Ouya hardware minus an OS and any networking capabilities. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with for the controller to work with all those Colecovision and Intellivision games. I thought maybe they'd want to exclude keypad-heavy games, but Utopia is in there. Good luck playing that without overlays. I also wonder if they're gona fix the emulation issues wit the ATGames Intelli, Coleco, and Sega consoles. I recall the audio on the Sega clones was atrocious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I don't see how anyone can take this seriously after the ridiculous amount of lies and mud slinging during the RVGS debacle. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I wonder how "controlled" the toy fair conditions will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Never been in one of those but somehow I doubt someone touting them the virtues of emulation as opposed to them haphazardly attempting to recreating the retro experience would be well received If you stop by please do take some pictures AFTER you give ParrotHead the spiel. Edited February 2, 2016 by phoenixdownita 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 16-bit offerings include (no systems mentioned): Dorke and Ymp Legend Iron Commando: Koutetsu No Senshi Jim Power: The Lost Dimension Battle Brave Saga Sydney Hunter: The Cavers of Death Apocalypse II Water Margin I watched the promo reel and noticed Legend (a SNES game) as well as Jim Power (another SNES game.. although they could use a different version). It doesn't bode well for the non-emulation crowd. It seems that's all this thing is going to be now, or at least that's my (somewhat uneducated) guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 So I guess porting unity and porting great indie games like Shovel Knight or Shantae are out of the question? If all this console becomes is carts as a container format for emulated retro consoles, I would rather just play the games on original hardware. Though if they get Neo Geo support on board, I will be interested. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 If all this console becomes is carts as a container format for emulated retro consoles, I would rather just play the games on original hardware. Though if they get Neo Geo support on board, I will be interested. If they get Neo-Geo support, it'll likely be the same recycled twenty-something games that SNK Playmore has pushed out in the last ten years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leods Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 If they get Neo-Geo support, it'll likely be the same recycled twenty-something games that SNK Playmore has pushed out in the last ten years. Also, as fara as I know there's no FPGA core ready for Neo Geo. So no one knows how good the Emulation would be. Theoretically it can be great. If the FPGA they got is big. But someone has to do it. Has anyone heard word from Kevtris? Now that they're going with FPGA he might be back in... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I wonder how "controlled" the toy fair conditions will be?I have no idea, but here's a 1994 Toy Fair promo for "Street Sharks" toys featuring a very young Vin Diesel. http://kotaku.com/in-1994-vin-diesel-was-selling-street-sharks-at-toy-fa-1755326330 http://youtu.be/P4HLBfTcAUg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 AtGames has no involvement whatsoever with this. Also, the Sega Genesis Classic Console is different from the other Flashbacks, which do use the same hardware base. The Sega product uses a Genesis on a chip implementation, while the others are the type of setup (standard chipset and custom software layer) you suggest. Nope, I am working on an undisclosed project and have talked to the Factory that does Atgames Genesis console. Atgames Genesis has been emulator based for a while I think at least the last 3 versions. It is called Firecore, that is why they have "80" games which 40 are not even Genesis games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leods Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Amazing that These SOCs are so damned cheap at this Point that ithey're cheaper than an oldschool System on a chip. But obviously the ARM SOCs get made in the hundreds of millions. No one could sell that many oldschool plug and Plays. Still kinda mindblowing that a processor hundreds of times more powerful is cheaper to produce. What's not that mindblowing, is understanding why the Audio Emulation is so horrendous. A cheap ARM processor and some Software they can put their Hands on for free isn't going to deliver the best of experiences. And so we wait to see how well implemented the RVGS is going to be. All that potential... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Amazing that These SOCs are so damned cheap at this Point that ithey're cheaper than an oldschool System on a chip. But obviously the ARM SOCs get made in the hundreds of millions. No one could sell that many oldschool plug and Plays. Still kinda mindblowing that a processor hundreds of times more powerful is cheaper to produce. What's not that mindblowing, is understanding why the Audio Emulation is so horrendous. A cheap ARM processor and some Software they can put their Hands on for free isn't going to deliver the best of experiences. And so we wait to see how well implemented the RVGS is going to be. All that potential... Emulation is bad because it is originally made by Chinese devs, probably from scratch, and very likely to meet a cost set by Atgames (I know the cost per unit but can't disclose), so you get what you pay for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Totally fantastic and near incredible that emulation is leading the way forward when it comes to playing the classics now and in the future. It's a lot more practical to get a $5.00 ARM SOC + support parts than it is to baggie-chase cartridges all over fuck'n town and deal with ratbag original consoles and pissheaded sellers on fleabay. Wooot!! While ARM SOC isn't my 1st choice of emulation vehicle, it does get you there. If you want style and elegance, you go with a pc box and stuff it full of properly written emulators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leods Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Totally fantastic and near incredible that emulation is leading the way forward when it comes to playing the classics now and in the future. It's a lot more practical to get a $5.00 ARM SOC + support parts than it is to baggie-chase cartridges all over fuck'n town and deal with ratbag original consoles and pissheaded sellers on fleabay. Wooot!! While ARM SOC isn't my 1st choice of emulation vehicle, it does get you there. If you want style and elegance, you go with a pc box and stuff it full of properly written emulators. You're so pathetic. Who would want to have virtually all games released before the year 2000 in a single machine to be played with almost any Controller they chose? Where are the cardboxes, Clusters of wires, and shelves full of stuff? You make me sick. Go Play all classic games for free the way you want. I'll Keep filling my shelves with actual Videogames I'll never Play. Get out of here with your filthy HTPC you poser. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Totally fantastic and near incredible that emulation is leading the way forward when it comes to playing the classics now and in the future. It's a lot more practical to get a $5.00 ARM SOC + support parts than it is to baggie-chase cartridges all over fuck'n town and deal with ratbag original consoles and pissheaded sellers on fleabay. Wooot!! While ARM SOC isn't my 1st choice of emulation vehicle, it does get you there. If you want style and elegance, you go with a pc box and stuff it full of properly written emulators. Meh, my dream emulation system would have an FPGA that gives me cycle-exact audio/video, not able to drop a frame. Not having an OS to babysit is a plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Meh, my dream emulation system would have an FPGA that gives me cycle-exact audio/video, not able to drop a frame. Not having an OS to babysit is a plus. I don't know if something like that is ever going to exist. The technology to make it so has been around for quite some time; and no one has stepped up to the plate to make such a system. The kevtris system looks nice on paper and in the lab. But to an end user it might as well be 5000 miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Where are the cardboxes, Clusters of wires, and shelves full of stuff? You make me sick. Go Play all classic games for free the way you want. I'll Keep filling my shelves with actual Videogames I'll never Play. No worries, because that's exactly what the RetreadVGS Collecto' Chameleon is bringing back to the teeming masses! Get out that checkbook, and clear off your shelves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 You're so pathetic. Who would want to have virtually all games released before the year 2000 in a single machine to be played with almost any Controller they chose? Where are the cardboxes, Clusters of wires, and shelves full of stuff? You make me sick. Go Play all classic games for free the way you want. I'll Keep filling my shelves with actual Videogames I'll never Play. Get out of here with your filthy HTPC you poser. Hopefully in the dump with the rest of your crap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) Their new photo: Check out that outline on the patch. I can swear they're using the same machinery to iron on their patch to the sweater as they used to heat stamp their logo onto the shell. Edited February 3, 2016 by StopDrop&Retro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Their new photo: As an aside, an anagram for Coleco Chameleon is: Eh... Lame Coco Clone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Nope, I am working on an undisclosed project and have talked to the Factory that does Atgames Genesis console. Atgames Genesis has been emulator based for a while I think at least the last 3 versions. It is called Firecore, that is why they have "80" games which 40 are not even Genesis games. Amazing that These SOCs are so damned cheap at this Point that ithey're cheaper than an oldschool System on a chip. But obviously the ARM SOCs get made in the hundreds of millions. No one could sell that many oldschool plug and Plays. Still kinda mindblowing that a processor hundreds of times more powerful is cheaper to produce. What's not that mindblowing, is understanding why the Audio Emulation is so horrendous. A cheap ARM processor and some Software they can put their Hands on for free isn't going to deliver the best of experiences. And so we wait to see how well implemented the RVGS is going to be. All that potential... Yeah, somebody posted a video online with the Sonic 3 sound emulation output from the ATGames Genesis and it was so horrendous that it made my ears bleed. Also the emulation thing would explain why the game saving didn't work. If it's a one-in-XX type thing, then each game would have to have it's own save slot. That just isn't practical when each game is wired to the same logical memory area. Or worse, if the Flash ROM is write protected, saving wouldn't be practical without adding extra hardware. By the way, my Super Retro Trio clone has nearly perfect AV for Genesis and SNES sides and even supports SMS games through an adapter. Screw the AtGames clone. The ATGames saving issue reminded me of my "150-in-1" MMC3 NES multicart which has a save battery just for Kirby's Adventure, but all the other MMC3 games on the multicart literally have access to the exact same SRAM. Selection of any other MMC3 game from the title menu that uses this memory bank as work RAM (like SMB3, for instance) will effectively erase the Kirby save data. If they had only used 16kbyte SRAM instead and assigned Kirby to use a different bank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amstari Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Their new photo: The shirts reminded me of this quote from Uncle Rico. https://quipvid.com/watch/Gm445xNc You're not a real company until you have a shirt with a logo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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