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Edladdin Colecovision Controller Kickstarter now LIVE!


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#26 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:44 PM

If this was a couple years ago, I would have been all over it.. currently, I use a converted/modified NeoGeo controller on my ColecoVision.

At any rate, I support whoever makes cool new things (especially controllers) for our favorite vintage consoles, good luck to you sir! :)

 

Thank you for your kind wishes!!!  :)



#27 Hannacek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:46 PM

 

Ouch! 

 

At the beginning I definitely thought quite a bit about openly adopting/adapting the ColecoVision "look" for these products, even calling them "Expansion Modules" and so on.  I thought UberArcade's 7800 styled controllers looked really great and thought it would be fun to riff on the Coleco look in the same way.

 

In the end, I did not feel comfortable given that ColecoVision is an active trademark that is currently being mined with the Flashback and now the Chameleon.  I can't afford to pursue proper licensing, and I did not want to set myself up to face a "Cease and Desist" at some time in the future, or have them demand a royalty for units already sold.    So thats the heart of it - I think it would look really cool but I am too risk averse to do it without permission.

You should be more afraid of Disney suing you for infringing on their Aladdin and Genie character, then being sued by the current holders of the Coleco brand name.

Disney is a multi billion dollar company, and Aladdin is one of there biggest animated movies. They are currently in development for a live action Aladdin movie based on the animated movie.  The Edladdin name and logo is clearly  the Genie character from the movie as voiced by Robin Williams.

Disney is a current company with lots of money that wants to protect their Aladdin property. Coleco is a company that doesn't exist, and has no money. A company that doesn't exist wouldn't sue a non entity over something they have no interest in protecting. The company that owns Coleco wants to make money, and suing someone with no money over something worth no money would not make them money. (I am assuming Edladdin has no money, otherwise they would not be asking for a modest kickstarter goal).

 



#28 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:13 PM

You should be more afraid of Disney suing you for infringing on their Aladdin and Genie character, then being sued by the current holders of the Coleco brand name.

Disney is a multi billion dollar company, and Aladdin is one of there biggest animated movies. They are currently in development for a live action Aladdin movie based on the animated movie.  The Edladdin name and logo is clearly  the Genie character from the movie as voiced by Robin Williams.

Disney is a current company with lots of money that wants to protect their Aladdin property. Coleco is a company that doesn't exist, and has no money. A company that doesn't exist wouldn't sue a non entity over something they have no interest in protecting. The company that owns Coleco wants to make money, and suing someone with no money over something worth no money would not make them money. (I am assuming Edladdin has no money, otherwise they would not be asking for a modest kickstarter goal).

 

 

That's a great point!

 

At the beginning we definitely thought about the likelihood of being chased down by Disney, who has a VERY active legal department and vaults of cash that would make Scrooge McDuck green with envy. 

 

In this case I felt like we had FAR more legal ground to stand on since Aladdin, the Genie, and the Lamp are very widely known folk tales that precede the Disney film by hundreds of years, with countless examples of uses in the popular culture that also precede the Disney film.  Just do a Google search on "Aladdin" and "Lamp" and you will get both the Disney film AND endless storybook and other uses/interpretations.   Case in point, the spark of inspiration for "Edladdin" was not the Disney film, but my personal love for NAMCO's "Aladdin's Castle" arcades that were in every other shopping center back in the Golden Era.  Even still, we took care in the design to not get too close to the Disney genie.  Ours is purple and wears a turban and vest, while theirs is blue and usually naked except for a sash and the classic "slave" bracelets. 

 

I also talked to an intellectual properties attorney about it and he felt we would be safe from both Disney and NAMCO since neither originated any of those characters, elements, or names.

 

On the other point, you are correct - we have very little money.  We had enough to get the prototype designed and built, and enough to pay out of pocket for the additional hardware that does not have large minimum runs (ie: joysticks and fire buttons), but not enough to pay for the whole project from start to finish. 



#29 Rhomaios OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:21 PM

 

I get where you are coming from...  We definitely went "big" with the designs in order to try and catch some attention.  I totally understand that this would not appeal to everyone.

 

Making a second version of the full coverage labels is not feasible.  With printing the price starts over with each new design that you run and the lower the number, the higher the unit cost. For example, it cost me $232 to have two copies of each of the four samples made ($29 each). We have to print 60 of each to have the price reach a reasonable per-unit level of $6.67 each for the big ones and $3.42 each for the little one.  Its an ok price, but its still $1,405 to have 60 of each label made.

 

With that said, I am happy to deliver the goods in one of these ways:

 

1. Trim off the majority of the labels, leaving only the strip on the lower front edge that labels the inputs on the "Seagull CV" and the "SAC Plus".   The main sloped surface will have only the keypad.

 

2.  Label nothing at all - only the keypad!  See the attached photo of a naked "SAC Plus" as an example, then imagine the keypad in the middle...

 

I hope this is more appealing!  I need your support!  :-)

 

Thanks for the response, and all the responses so far. I appreciate the candor and professional response. I'll definitely be following this closely to see how it develops!



#30 TPR ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:54 PM

 

Ouch! 

 

At the beginning I definitely thought quite a bit about openly adopting/adapting the ColecoVision "look" for these products, even calling them "Expansion Modules" and so on.  I thought UberArcade's 7800 styled controllers looked really great and thought it would be fun to riff on the Coleco look in the same way.

 

In the end, I did not feel comfortable given that ColecoVision is an active trademark that is currently being mined with the Flashback and now the Chameleon.  I can't afford to pursue proper licensing, and I did not want to set myself up to face a "Cease and Desist" at some time in the future, or have them demand a royalty for units already sold.    So thats the heart of it - I think it would look really cool but I am too risk averse to do it without permission.

 

You can't please everyone, no matter how hard you try.  You just have to go with the product you feel strongly about and hope others will feel the same.  I personally think the look of them is really "fun" and to me, that's what playing games is all about.

 

Question - I'm actually interested in both the Super Controller Plus AND the USB stick.  I can only seem to pledge for one of them.  Is there a way to get both?



#31 NIAD OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:46 AM

As far as the sticker goes, there is always the option of a group of people to contact PBoland to see if he would make a small run specific for these controllers. It's always a bit more expensive to go this route, but Phil has put his talents to work for a lot of custom items in the past and it wouldn't hurt to ask him.

#32 GoldenWheels ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:32 AM


1. Leave the "genie font" keypad printed on the big label.

2. Have a minimal design printed on the naked keypad. 

3. If you want full-on, eye-popping, purple and gold:  we put the keypad under the big label.

4. If you want the minimalist look, we leave the controller naked and the low-intensity keypad is visible for those owners.

 

So we get the best of both worlds without sending the costs any higher.  And your wish is STILL my command!  ;-)

 

How does this sound?   Comments?

I am all about option 4! Thumbs up. I like that plain keypad very much and if the Seagull CV box is nice and plain I can always "art" it up myself. Without the sticker art on the top and sides I assume the box is black?



#33 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:29 PM

I am all about option 4! Thumbs up. I like that plain keypad very much and if the Seagull CV box is nice and plain I can always "art" it up myself. Without the sticker art on the top and sides I assume the box is black?

 

Ok!   I will work on a very muted keypad design with the intention of facilitating Option 4. 

 

As delivered, the enclosure comes in two pieces - the top (including the sloped area), the front edge, and the back are black.  The sides and bottom are blue, as seen in the photos.



#34 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:31 PM

 

You can't please everyone, no matter how hard you try.  You just have to go with the product you feel strongly about and hope others will feel the same.  I personally think the look of them is really "fun" and to me, that's what playing games is all about.

 

Question - I'm actually interested in both the Super Controller Plus AND the USB stick.  I can only seem to pledge for one of them.  Is there a way to get both?

 

Wow, thanks so much for your support!

 

I just set up a new reward option that includes one of each:  "Super Arcade Controller PLUS" and the "Super USB: Colecovision" for $375.



#35 GoldenWheels ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:48 PM

 

Ok!   I will work on a very muted keypad design with the intention of facilitating Option 4. 

 

As delivered, the enclosure comes in two pieces - the top (including the sloped area), the front edge, and the back are black.  The sides and bottom are blue, as seen in the photos.

 

Got it. Mine wont be for long. :) 



#36 TPR ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:34 PM

 

Wow, thanks so much for your support!

 

I just set up a new reward option that includes one of each:  "Super Arcade Controller PLUS" and the "Super USB: Colecovision" for $375.

 

Thanks I've updated my pledge. 



#37 TPR ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:39 PM

the spark of inspiration for "Edladdin" was not the Disney film, but my personal love for NAMCO's "Aladdin's Castle" arcades that were in every other shopping center back in the Golden Era.  

 

This makes me like the design even more!  I grew up playing games at the Aladdin's Castle in Torrance!  As someone who spent a good chunk of their career working for Disney, and even produced the Aladdin game for the Sega Genesis back in my "game industry days" I can assure you that you won't have any trouble from Disney at all as the characters are in fact part of public domain now.



#38 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:38 PM

 

This makes me like the design even more!  I grew up playing games at the Aladdin's Castle in Torrance!  As someone who spent a good chunk of their career working for Disney, and even produced the Aladdin game for the Sega Genesis back in my "game industry days" I can assure you that you won't have any trouble from Disney at all as the characters are in fact part of public domain now.

 

 

Nice!  I bet you have some great stories to tell about life in the Mouse House! 

 

For whatever reason Aladdin's Castle was always my favorite among the chain arcades.  Mainly saw "Time Out" and "Gold Mine" where I was living in Ohio in those days, though there were several mom 'n pop arcades near the OSU campus.



#39 AtariBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:17 PM

I just pledged for a Super Arcade Controller Plus . Hope this gets enough backers .



#40 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:39 PM

I just pledged for a Super Arcade Controller Plus . Hope this gets enough backers .

 

Thank you!   You kicked us over the 30% mark!   Still a long way to go, but I am hopeful!



#41 Troy_Whelan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:55 PM

I like what you are doing, but I have a question.  Why are the fire buttons aligned in an arching row?  Others have done the same thing, and I bought that controller, but the button configuration is not ideal.  A better configuration would be aligned with compass points N-S-E-W.  That gives a more intuitive firing configuration for shooting forwards, backwards, up and down, or even easily using two buttons at once and having confidence that you are using the correct buttons.  Plus you can easily get to all of the buttons without looking at the controller.  With the buttons in a row, I find it challenging to use without feeling around or looking down.

 

Still on the fence about this as I don't really need it, really can't afford it, but kind of want it.

 

Troy



#42 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:59 PM

I like what you are doing, but I have a question.  Why are the fire buttons aligned in an arching row?  Others have done the same thing, and I bought that controller, but the button configuration is not ideal.  A better configuration would be aligned with compass points N-S-E-W.  That gives a more intuitive firing configuration for shooting forwards, backwards, up and down, or even easily using two buttons at once and having confidence that you are using the correct buttons.  Plus you can easily get to all of the buttons without looking at the controller.  With the buttons in a row, I find it challenging to use without feeling around or looking down.

 

Still on the fence about this as I don't really need it, really can't afford it, but kind of want it.

 

Troy

 

 

Putting them in a row was meant to mirror the layout of the original Super Action Controller, where the four buttons fall under the four fingers.  The buttons are relatively easy to move around, though!  I'm the guy that drills the holes, so I can easily put them in an "X" or "+"  pattern if you want. 

 

You will have to let me know the order of the buttons as far as "Left=1, Right=2, 3, 4," as they relate to the signal going to the Colecovision consoles.  OR perhaps you are talking about the "Super USB: Colecovision" controller?  In that case it doesn't much matter... You can program any of the four to be whatever keystrokes you want.

 

Thanks for considering supporting the project! 



#43 Hannacek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:25 AM

 

This makes me like the design even more!  I grew up playing games at the Aladdin's Castle in Torrance!  As someone who spent a good chunk of their career working for Disney, and even produced the Aladdin game for the Sega Genesis back in my "game industry days" I can assure you that you won't have any trouble from Disney at all as the characters are in fact part of public domain now.

It's a lot more complicated than that. Just because the source material is public domain does not mean the Disney version of Aladdin including their portrayal of the image and likeness of the Genie character is public domain.

 

Being such a small entity and having no money or assets protects you from a lawsuit. The Disney legal team would spend more than your entire kickstarter goal in less than the first day if they wanted to take action.

A Star Trek fan film that raised $1 million recently got sued for copyright infringement. Every other Star Trek fan film before that was not sued because they raised very little money privately, never publicly like Kickstarter, and gave away the finished film for free. 


Edited by Hannacek, Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:26 AM.


#44 TPR ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:35 AM

It's a lot more complicated than that. Just because the source material is public domain does not mean the Disney version of Aladdin including their portrayal of the image and likeness of the Genie character is public domain.

 

Being such a small entity and having no money or assets protects you from a lawsuit. The Disney legal team would spend more than your entire kickstarter goal in less than the first day if they wanted to take action.

Hi. It's actually NOT a lot more complicated than that.  I'm not sure what experience you have working with intellectual properties, their rights holders, and the legal team behind them because this is an area where I actually have a LOT of experience, 20+ years worth.

 

When I said I "used to work for Disney" that meant I actually knew what I was talking about.  I was at a level where I would have direct meetings with Michael Eisner and Jeffrey Katzenburg as well as the directorial team (Clements/Musker) that made the movie Aladdin! I attended screenings of the film with the directors, producers, and animators on a regular basis for months, maybe even up to a year before the film was even released in different stages of its development.  I dealt with the legal team on a number of different issues, including IP and likeness rights ALL THE TIME.  Edladdin's character doesn't even really look like the Disney Genie.  Let's just compare...

 

edladdin.jpg genielamp.png

 

The idea that you think the Disney legal team would even notice Edladdin is laughable.  (No offense, Ed!)  When I said that Ed won't have any trouble from Disney, that didn't come from my personal opinion, that came from my professional experience.  Aladdin is a "public domain" story.  If you are using characters that were created specifically for the Disney version of the movie, like if he had Iago on his controllers, then he might have something to worry about.  But the reality is this, Disney couldn't even go after productions like these which were created specifically as a "knock-off" of the Disney films, other than to make companies like Good Times change their packaging slightly as to not confuse consumers...

odj-074_1z.jpg Goodtimes-Classic-1993-Animated-Feature-Aladdin-VHS-USED_168531A.jpg

 

Trust me on this, Disney's lawyers are NOT going to waste their time going after someone making ColecoVision controllers who is using a public domain character that *SLIGHTLY* resembles that of a Disney character.  They have much bigger companies to go after that could *actually* impact the billions of dollars Disney brings in.  Edladdin wouldn't even be a blip anywhere near their radar.

 

 

A Star Trek fan film that raised $1 million recently got sued for copyright infringement. Every other Star Trek fan film before that was not sued because they raised very little money privately, never publicly like Kickstarter, and gave away the finished film for free. 

 

There is a huge HUGE DIFFERENCE between someone raising a million dollars for a movie that directly competes with a current franchise's motion picture releases which is using the same title and characters as the studio's IP and someone raising $10k for a video game controller on a system that no longer has a retail presence that has nothing to do with any product Disney is currently releasing containing a character that doesn't even resemble the licensed source you're implying it does. 

 

Look, I'm not trying to start any sort of fight here, but when someone comes on and says "Hey, I used to work for said company..." just maybe you should take note of what they have to say?  I mean, I don't know what you do for a living (who knows, maybe you're an intellectual property lawyer?) but if you came on here and posted some advice from your line of business, which is totally different from my background, I would respect that you probably know more about that line of work than I do...

 

Just saying...

 

I was only here to help.



#45 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:54 AM

I'm definitely not offended!    Its true, I wish we were a LITTLE bigger because a strong cash flow makes it easier to carry out all the fun projects I'd love to do (Atari 5200 controller!), but I also know that if Atari and Coleco were still in their heydays there would likely not be a space in the market for a little guy like me.

 

Anyhow, I'm glad we have the intellectual properties question settled.  Thanks to everyone involved for sharing ideas and getting a good discussion rolling!


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#46 Albert ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:18 PM

I just pledged for a Super Arcade Controller PLUS. I really can't stand the stock ColecoVision controllers, so it'll be a dream to play games using this controller. Plus having the ability to use other controllers (such as a 2600 CX-80) makes it incredibly versatile. Can't wait to get my hands on this!

Now, this may sound like a paid endorsement, but I just wanted to say that Ed Kelly is a great guy whom I've met in person, and he loves classic gaming. He puts a lot of time and thought into these controllers, and they are very well built. I have two of the Super 78 controllers, and I had them running at several shows last year. I heard nothing but compliments from people who used the controllers with various 7800 games. The stock 7800 controller is another I am not fond of (ergonomics was certainly not a thing back then!), so having arcade-quality controllers makes a big difference in enjoyment of games on the system for me. Especially with all the great homebrew games on the 7800, many of them ports of arcade games. Tons of great arcade ports on the ColecoVision as well. :)

I really hope this Kickstarter succeeds, as I want to see Ed next target the Atari 5200! Another system with just abysmal first-party controllers!

..Al

#47 SoulBlazer OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:38 PM

I understand the high prices, but I can't afford to get one, as much as I'd like to have one for the CV Flashback.  In any event, good luck with the project!



#48 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:45 PM

I understand the high prices, but I can't afford to get one, as much as I'd like to have one for the CV Flashback.  In any event, good luck with the project!

 

Thank you very much!  I totally understand.  Your kind words are much appreciated. 

I really wish the prices COULD be much lower.  Its the problem of scale once again...  If we were building 1,000 units I bet we could cut the prices in half.   A great example... So far we have pledges for 4 of the Seagull CVs.  If I buy 5 of the little aluminum cases from Mouser, they are $23.26 each.  If I buy direct from the factory (100 pieces minimum) it drops to $14.00.  If we really were ordering 1,000 cases it would likely be at or below $10.00. Its just the reality of our tiny runs for these products.



#49 fiddlepaddle OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:02 PM

For what it's worth, I too am VERY interested, but am financially limited for the next couple of months; though certainly wish this project complete success and hope I'll be able to participate later...

#50 AtariBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:38 PM

I like what you are doing, but I have a question.  Why are the fire buttons aligned in an arching row?  Others have done the same thing, and I bought that controller, but the button configuration is not ideal.  A better configuration would be aligned with compass points N-S-E-W.  That gives a more intuitive firing configuration for shooting forwards, backwards, up and down, or even easily using two buttons at once and having confidence that you are using the correct buttons.  Plus you can easily get to all of the buttons without looking at the controller.  With the buttons in a row, I find it challenging to use without feeling around or looking down.

 

Still on the fence about this as I don't really need it, really can't afford it, but kind of want it.

 

Troy

He is willing to build it how you want it . For instance I am probably going to get a silent 4/8 way stick on this and will pay the extra upcharge for parts . 






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