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Atari 8-bit Programming Utilities DOS Editors Software Documentation

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#101 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 6, 2017 10:55 AM

VERY, VERY nice resource set.

 

It has everything I actually wanted to have in one place, and easily accesible.

Cheers!

 

Thanks.



#102 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:58 PM

For anyone who may have already visited the just-added section for EnvisionPC earlier today: I've added a bookmarked PDF manual, so you may want to revisit if that's something you're interested in, since I won't be making a separate Update-page entry for just the manual.

 

EnvisionPC


Edited by MrFish, Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:10 PM.


#103 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:35 PM

So, carrying on from the discussion in the "Mr. Do - Improvements" thread about converting my site to something that can be viewed on Atari-based web browsers...

 

What are the Atari browsers being used by people currently, and what are their capabilities? I know the list of supported tags is going to be small, but what are they?

 

At least, we have <p>, <br>, and <a>; what else have we? Does <a> support downloading files?

 

Can anyone point me to a spec?


Edited by MrFish, Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:35 PM.


#104 dmsc OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:55 PM

Hi!

 

So, carrying on from the discussion in the "Mr. Do - Improvements" thread about converting my site to something that can be viewed on Atari-based web browsers...
 
What are the Atari browsers being used by people currently, and what are their capabilities? I know the list of supported tags is going to be small, but what are they?
 
At least, we have <p>, <br>, and <a>; what else have we? Does <a> support downloading files?
 
Can anyone point me to a spec?



For the menu problem, I would simply add this to the CSS:
 
@media only screen and (max-height: 800px) {
  /* For small screens: */
  table.Navigation:hover td {
    display: table-cell;
  }

  table.Navigation td {
    display: none;
  }
}
That means that on screens with less than 800 pixels of height, the navigation subtitles is hidden until you hover the cursor over the corresponding header.

To have the current menu page visible, you should add a different class to the active one, it is not possible with pure CSS.

I think that designing for the Atari 8bit and modern browsers is easy if you use only CSS and a simple HTML, you could have a table-less menu with <UL> and <LI> elements and show that as a table in the CSS.

#105 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:59 PM

serious computerist website left frame needs a scroll bar or something so we get to it all or some other such solution...

 

The Menu area will now scroll when any of its content is out of view in a browser window.

 

However, I've chosen NOT to display any scrollbar for the Menu area. What does this mean?

 

1. You will need a mouse with a scroll wheel, or some other type of device capable of scrolling content without the use of a visible scrollbar.

2. For devices, such as a mouse, the pointer will need to be somewhere in the Menu area in order for the Menu area to scroll.

 

The normal content area will still have a scrollbar and scroll as usual. However, if content is off screen in the Menu area, the pointer will

need to be in the normal content area in order for the normal content area to scroll (with an exception, which should become clear upon

usage).

 

This should work in all browsers (FireFox, Explorer 10+, Chrome, Safari, Opera). I've tested it in all except Chrome. If there are any issues,

please let me know.

 

Note: If you've been to the site recently enough, you may need to clear your cache in order for the new CSS scolling Menu area additions

to be recognized.



#106 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:07 PM

scroll bars appeared on both the left side and right side, both work correctly. I am now able to see all of menu and content. Works great.


Edited by _The Doctor__, Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:10 PM.


#107 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:11 PM

scroll bars appeared on both the left side and right side, both work correctly, for both menu and content. Works great.

 

What version of Firefox are you running?


Edited by MrFish, Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:12 PM.


#108 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:24 PM

on this machine I run the Extended support releases...

for the wifes machine.. I run whatever the latest and greatest comes down from their site.

 

I am glad it knows my laptop does not have a scroll wheel, if I plug one in maybe it will hide the bars.


Edited by _The Doctor__, Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:26 PM.


#109 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:27 PM

For the menu problem, I would simply add this to the CSS:
 

@media only screen and (max-height: 800px) {
  /* For small screens: */
  table.Navigation:hover td {
    display: table-cell;
  }

  table.Navigation td {
    display: none;
  }
}
That means that on screens with less than 800 pixels of height, the navigation subtitles is hidden until you hover the cursor over the corresponding header.

To have the current menu page visible, you should add a different class to the active one, it is not possible with pure CSS.

I think that designing for the Atari 8bit and modern browsers is easy if you use only CSS and a simple HTML, you could have a table-less menu with <UL> and <LI> elements and show that as a table in the CSS.

 

 

I doubt that any Atari 8-bit browser is currently doing much more than very simple HTML, with NO CSS.

 

If you're referring to the problem _The Doctor_ was talking about, in modern browsers (menu items off screen and not accessible), the problem should be fixed already.

 

I'm not a fan of pop-out menus (or drop-down, for that matter) in web browsers at all.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, though.



#110 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:39 PM

on this machine I run the Extended support releases...

for the wifes machine.. I run whatever the latest and greatest comes down from their site.

 

I am glad it knows my laptop does not have a scroll wheel, if I plug one in maybe it will hide the bars.

 

I think the reason you're seeing the scrollbar in the menu is due to the version you're running. Older versions of Firefox do not have 

support for the extension that will allow hiding a scrollbar. This, however, is not an intended feature. But, if it works for you, then no

problem.

 

So, for those using older versions of Firefox, the menu will be scrollable and have a scrollbar, but this is not as intended. Please upgrade to 

the latest (I think v63 and beyond support the extension), in order to view the site as intended.


Edited by MrFish, Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:40 PM.


#111 dmsc OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:39 PM

Hi!
 

I doubt that any Atari 8-bit browser is currently doing much more than very simple HTML, with NO CSS.


:-)

Yes, this is why I think that a site that uses simple <UL> and <LI> (with the CSS set to display as a table) has a better chance of working in the 8-bit (that would ignore the CSS) and at the same time looking good on modern browsers.
 

If you're referring to the problem _The Doctor_ was talking about, in modern browsers (menu items off screen and not accessible), the problem should be fixed already.
 
I'm not a fan of pop-out menus (or drop-down, for that matter) in web browsers at all.
 
Thanks for the suggestion, though.


Yes, I saw your solution after I wrote the post, I think is good. I spent a little time looking if it is possible with pure CSS to add a little arrow to the bottom to show that the menu could scroll (if not shown completely) but I don't think it is possible.

I also dislike pop-up menus in web pages, my solution was more like "hide/show" content than pop-up, as the menus keept its place.

Hhve fun!

#112 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:53 PM

Yes, this is why I think that a site that uses simple <UL> and <LI> (with the CSS set to display as a table) has a better chance of working in the 8-bit (that would ignore the CSS) and at the same time looking good on modern browsers.

 

Possibly, but I would rather have a separate version of the site that's more optimized for 8-bit machines (to cut down on load time, processing time, etc.). So, I'll want to do something that is extremely bare-bones -- at least until something appears on the Ataris that is capable of handling more.

 

 

Yes, I saw your solution after I wrote the post, I think is good. I spent a little time looking if it is possible with pure CSS to add a little arrow to the bottom to show that the menu could scroll (if not shown completely) but I don't think it is possible. 

 

Good point -- especially without a scrollbar appearing. I'll have to look into what might be possible.

 

 

I also dislike pop-up menus in web pages, my solution was more like "hide/show" content than pop-up, as the menus keept its place.

 

If you look at my post, I was calling it "pop-out" menus; at least that's what I call them. I was just adding to the discussion that I also don't like "drop-down" menus as well.

Anyway, it's a valid suggestion, it's just one of a number of things that I'm purposely avoiding.


Edited by MrFish, Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:59 PM.


#113 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:10 PM

I should also note here that having the menu scroll is just a temporary solution to a problem that already has a planned solution for the long-term. As note elsewhere in this thread, the site will eventually cater directly to more screens and devices. This is just a temporary means to allow better access to the desktop machine layout for some devices with smaller screens.



#114 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:00 PM

I know some people on AA were searching for a manual to Chipmunk before; DLH's Commodore Archive (great site for all systems, btw) posted up a copy today.

 

I've bookmarked the manual and put it up on the Serious Computerist, along with disks for v1.0 and v3.04.

 

Chipmunk


Edited by MrFish, Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:34 PM.


#115 Allan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:11 PM

I know some people on AA were searching for manual to Chipmunk before; DLH's Commodore Archive (great site for all systems, btw) posted up a copy today.

 

I've bookmarked the manual and put it up on the Serious Computerist, along with disks for v1.0 and v3.04.

 

Chipmunk

Do you mind if I ad this to Atarimania?

 

Allan



#116 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:13 PM

Do you mind if I ad this to Atarimania?

 

Feel free Allan.



#117 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:16 PM

The scrollbar works for me. I'm using Firefox 52.9.0.

 

Thanks.







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