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some 15 kHz tunes

music pokey RMT

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#51 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 7, 2016 11:38 PM

 
Thanks! Writing "Prism" was interesting: I had most parts finished in an hour or so ;)
 
 
I simply expressed my opinion that there is little interest in new trackers because there aren't many A8 musicians nowadays. And I expressed my appreciation of the soundtrack, implicitly people that made it. I hope it is clear. However I don't think I grasp your concept of 'a real musician' as I don't grasp Emkay's concept of 'using pokey as it should'.


Real musicians how I mean it was due to the fact that people fighting with the capabilities of the Pokey and the few trackers compared to tools available for PC, Amiga and ST and even for SID.

Esp Triace always fights with the technical limitations.

#52 makary OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 8, 2016 2:09 AM

@snicklin:

 

I'm writing pokey music for couple months so I know almost nothing about the community needs and pokey trackers. I think I used about 50% of RMT and Patch 8 abilities in the tunes I presented. Therefore my list of demands would include just one point at the moment: 'a complex effect column' allowing to make some automation of various parameters in a pattern. 

 

As regards 'why do we want Pokey music?': I haven't explored yet more CPU and memory friendly techniques so I'm not producing any music useful for demos or games. I did some tunes using 1 frame but they're mostly rubbish.

 

I've head from some SID musicians that the SidTracker64 is a really nice app. I personally use Goattracker for my SID projects. Due to it's UI using GT might be painful, so no wonder some people begin to use SidTracker :)

 

Thanks for clarifying things. Really. Because I'm not in a position to say anything reasonable when people are talking about 'real music', 'real musicians' or 'proper usage of pokey' and separate people or musical stuff like that.



#53 snicklin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 8, 2016 2:47 AM

@snicklin:

 

I'm writing pokey music for couple months so I know almost nothing about the community needs and pokey trackers. I think I used about 50% of RMT and Patch 8 abilities in the tunes I presented. Therefore my list of demands would include just one point at the moment: 'a complex effect column' allowing to make some automation of various parameters in a pattern. 

 

As regards 'why do we want Pokey music?': I haven't explored yet more CPU and memory friendly techniques so I'm not producing any music useful for demos or games. I did some tunes using 1 frame but they're mostly rubbish.

 

I've head from some SID musicians that the SidTracker64 is a really nice app. I personally use Goattracker for my SID projects. Due to it's UI using GT might be painful, so no wonder some people begin to use SidTracker :)

 

Thanks for clarifying things. Really. Because I'm not in a position to say anything reasonable when people are talking about 'real music', 'real musicians' or 'proper usage of pokey' and separate people or musical stuff like that.

 

HI Makary,

 

No worries, I wasn't directly addressing you with a lot of the comments there as I recognise that your name is new on this board (and I thank you for coming over to the Atari). There have been ongoing discussions on here over a few years now about initially wanting new features in RMT (until the developer unfortunately passed away) and then about creating a new tracker. There's been a lot of comments made which I feel are very valid, but I doubt any developer will pick up on them unless they're all compiled into place. They'll also need to be able to understand how music works, which I guess that many currently don't.

 

The complex effect column, is this like the one in SidTracker64? I saw that online earlier and was very impressed with the product.

 

And as for "real music", "real musicians" or "proper Pokey usage", I guess that this is quite personal to whoever is writing the comment. A beep is music, just not very good music.



#54 makary OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 8, 2016 12:15 PM

(...)

The complex effect column, is this like the one in SidTracker64? I saw that online earlier and was very impressed with the product.

 

And as for "real music", "real musicians" or "proper Pokey usage", I guess that this is quite personal to whoever is writing the comment. A beep is music, just not very good music.

 

Let's say I am writing a melody that goes like C, E, A, G. I want C and G to be played with instrument without effects, but I want E to be slided and A to be vibrating. In RMT it means that I need three versions of the same instrument (without effects, slided and vibrating). In most trackers using effect column, I use one instrument and put in the effect column appropriate effect command by a given note.

 

From a technical point of view an effect column makes writing more convenient. From a musical point of view you can add more movement and variety to the sound. Make it less predictable and repetitive.

 

In general I think that Renoise is an interesting benchmark as regards UI (i.e. the simplicity of rearranging and manipulating patterns) and MaxYMiser as regards flexibility (defining a set of sequences and using them to control almost everything that YM offers). But it's just my subjective opinion.



#55 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 8, 2016 12:59 PM

Let's say I am writing a melody that goes like C, E, A, G. I want C and G to be played with instrument without effects, but I want E to be slided and A to be vibrating. In RMT it means that I need three versions of the same instrument (without effects, slided and vibrating). In most trackers using effect column, I use one instrument and put in the effect column appropriate effect command by a given note.


Well, well.... and now imagine to use instruments with different types of modulations on different/any channels.. not alone to have "thousands" of instruments needed, you don't have the possibility to build a combinated setting and to play it via Keyboard.

#56 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 8, 2016 1:56 PM

Interesting as Triace mentioned the same with the FX command in other trackers compared to RMT

#57 makary OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 8, 2016 2:04 PM

Well, well.... and now imagine to use instruments with different types of modulations on different/any channels.. not alone to have "thousands" of instruments needed, you don't have the possibility to build a combinated setting and to play it via Keyboard.

 

Exactly.

 

Jaskier used in TMC2 'R-codes' that enable to control some parameters from a pattern. It helps a lot, but there is no Patch 8 for TMC2 ;) Frequency/semitone shift, vibrato on/off+speed, filter on/off+ frequency, arpeggio speed, portamento on/off+speed are just some examples of parameters that can be usually controlled from a pattern in other trackers.



#58 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 8, 2016 11:45 PM

I was actually not aware because I thought that's standard tracker behavior.... ;) but know I can imagine the pain.... And why RMT files grew in size...

#59 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 8, 2016 11:47 PM

In Arsantica 3 I was using and asking Miker to do the main music part because he is familiar with Music Pro Tracker a native old tracker because the modules are smaller and the player use less cycles.... Esp in RMT using the SID voice could kill your fx.

#60 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 9, 2016 2:22 AM

Heaven, Heaven ;)

Particular Arsantica could take usage of such tracks:



Imagine Captain Panda is thrifting through space... the instruments could be run in a minimal runtime. It's just that RMT P8 needed to drop some features that were missing here and still some variety in the resulting effect in the emulation. And, well just 15kHz ... no additional clocking. Normally this would be a coder's paradise to push some demo around it ;)

Actually, some more CPU cycles invested, would make the sounds sharper , where needed.

Edited by emkay, Sat Apr 9, 2016 2:26 AM.


#61 analmux OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 9, 2016 5:39 AM

Normally this would be a coder's paradise to push some demo around it ;)


Well, using RMT is still a nice app, especially for coders. Cooperations should give more advanced music: 1 musician + 1 coder gives more complex PoKey music.

In ML it's easy to expand the jsr INIT and jsr RUN commands. Remember f.e. the ML by pass trick I used to turn on / off the PoKey 2-tone-filter for Instrumentarium. Another possibility is to use more ML custom tables, so that the coder can add it, outside of the RMT. Especially the synth filter RESET and OFFSET can be coded immediately.

#62 makary OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:32 AM

I was actually not aware because I thought that's standard tracker behavior....  ;) but know I can imagine the pain.... And why RMT files grew in size...

 

Yes. That might be one of the causes of the files' size.

 

Even though there are some limitations, Raster Music Tracker 1.28 is a brillant piece of a chip music software in my opinion. I personally don't expect that software offers all possible or imaginable features. I expect that the features it provides work well and are reliable. Radek did excellent job in this regard.



#63 ballyalley OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:10 AM

Hi everyone,

 

I just want to share some tunes I made using 15 kHz clocked Pokey in basic version of Raster Music Tracker (1.28). I believe they sound a bit different than tunes made with a regular clock (64 kHz). So check please if you wish and enjoy!

 

I listened to the versions of both of these songs that are online.  I presume this music was created on PAL equipment.  If I listen to the music on my real hardware (which an an NTSC Atari 130XE), will it sound different (faster, I'd guess)?

 

I'm technically impressed by the music... but even better than that-- I like it!

 

Adam



#64 makary OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:24 PM

 

I listened to the versions of both of these songs that are online.  I presume this music was created on PAL equipment.  If I listen to the music on my real hardware (which an an NTSC Atari 130XE), will it sound different (faster, I'd guess)?

 

I'm technically impressed by the music... but even better than that-- I like it!

 

Adam

 

Hi Adam, many thanks!

 

When I'm exporting tunes to XEX files the following message is displayed by RMT: 'playing speed will be adjusted to 50Hz on PAL and also on NTSC systems'. So I suppose it will sound the same.



#65 makary OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:56 AM

I've always wanted to do some remix of that tune... So here it is ;)

 

Link to the recording form a real Pokey:

 

http://makarybrauner...break8bit-remix

Attached Files



#66 lotek_style OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:53 AM

http://demozoo.org/music/156230/



#67 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:45 PM

I've always wanted to do some remix of that tune... So here it is ;)
 
Link to the recording form a real Pokey:
 
http://makarybrauner...break8bit-remix

Sounding.... ok
Mixing ... ok

without that "drunken synthesizer" touch , it would be marvellous.

#68 analmux OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:45 PM

@ makary

I like it!

Would you allow emkay to try a small instrument edit for the heavy synths?

#69 makary OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:34 PM

@ analmux

Thanks and no ;) The remix has been released, people are already listening, downloading and sharing it via BC, FB etc. It should be left as it is. Anyway, I appreciate opinions but I'm OK with the instruments.

Maybe you could propose another remix? Another approach to Zybex or another tune's remix?

#70 analmux OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:56 AM

Maybe you could propose another remix? Another approach to Zybex or another tune's remix?


Not now. And the next tunes I'd like to make a remix of are two pop songs. But if I have some time to make new PoKey music, I'll let you know. ;)

#71 analmux OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 1, 2016 9:07 AM

http://makarybrauner...rack/step-it-up


Hi makary,

Emkay (who is a PoKey test expert) made a different version of the "Step It Up" song. He also used RMT 1.28 at 15 kHz mode, but also Patch 8 version this time:

http://atariage.com/...ch-8/?p=3501925

How do you like it? :)

#72 makary OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 2, 2016 12:57 AM

Hi makary,

Emkay (who is a PoKey test expert) made a different version of the "Step It Up" song. He also used RMT 1.28 at 15 kHz mode, but also Patch 8 version this time:

http://atariage.com/...ch-8/?p=3501925

How do you like it? :)

 

Hi Analmux,

 

it resembles my tune but original instruments were substituted with some poorly designed ones ;) My recommendation: use own ideas for experiments.



#73 makary OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 2, 2016 4:50 PM

Hi everyone,

I'm not going to release more Pokey music, so thanks a lot for all these kind and insightful opinions.

Pokey on ;)
M

EOT

#74 Stephen ONLINE  

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Posted Mon May 2, 2016 5:31 PM

64001836.jpg



#75 analmux OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 2, 2016 6:30 PM

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: .... thanks Stephen .... :rolling: :rolling:

Sorry makary, but we only tried to help you. To correctly using the more advanced PoKey possibilities you'll need to learn some mathematics. Emkay and I did already many experiments and trying to understand all PoKey positibilities. If you like to be a PoKey expert, then you need to work for it. Why can't you just accept this situation? But I'm not sure you like mathematics:

http://math.stackexc...1358628#1358628

Best regards,
ANALogue MUltipleXer, MSc (Hons. Mult.) (Theoretical Physics & Mathematical Sciences)

Edited by analmux, Mon May 2, 2016 6:37 PM.






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