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Can Altirra Basic run from Side2 APT?

Altirra Basic Side2

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#1 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:57 PM

I get an error: 179 memory conflict when trying to execute Altirra Basic from one of Side2's APT partitions. Based on what I've found through searches, I suspect that it is a conflict with Side2 being present as a cartridge. So I tried entering "D3:X ALTIRRA" and I still get the same error (ALTIRRA.COM is present in the main directory of the C: drive D3). Anybody have a suggestion?

 

Configuration...

 

Stock 1200XL

No U1 Meg

New Side2 Cart with preformatted CF card from Lotharek

 

Thanks,

Michael



#2 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:59 PM

Type:

 

X D3:ALTIRRA



#3 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:04 PM

Hmmm It works with my Side2 and U1M from Lotharek.   So My suggestion is to verify that it is truly the correct file.

 

And yes it does need the X in front of the file name, unless COMEXE.SYS is loaded with the config.sys and file name changed to filename.EXE.

 

and in the PATH.


Edited by rdea6, Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:06 PM.


#4 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:51 PM

I appreciate the feedback, but so far no go with the Side2 Cart inserted.

 

I also tried accessing an ATR with ALTIRRA.COM on it from my PC Hard Drive via SIO2PC-USB using: X D1:ALTIRRA, but still no dice.

 

But if I pull out Side2, then boot back to the same ATR image on my PC Hard Drive, and then just type ALTIRRA it works. Then I tried accessing a different file from an entirely different ATR image (Speed Script saved as: SPEED.COM), once again it works when booting the ATR via SIO2PC-USB, but fails if I try to access it with the Side2 Cart inserted (X D1:SPEED).

 

Got me baffled  :?

 

- Michael

 

 

EDIT: So this is not an Altirra Basic problem, but a Side2 problem on my machine.


Edited by mytekcontrols, Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:53 PM.


#5 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:42 PM

Attached File  BASICS.ARC   44.02KB   88 downloads

 

4 different basics all with the EXT of EXE try these to verify that none work or all work.

 

With SDX44x the X should be prefaced to the filename.  Are you using you XEGS system with this problem, because my XEGS has problems running Turbobasic T20.EXE

 



#6 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:48 PM

Didn't notice you're using a stock 1200XL. The SIDE driver you're using to access the hard disk from SpartaDOS X is raising MEMLO very high since there's no extended RAM. This certainly explains SpeedScript's failure to load, and possibly Altirra BASIC's. Either get some kind of RAM upgrade or install an Ultimate 1MB (in the latter case you won't need the driver anyway since you'll have a PBI hard disk).

#7 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:34 PM

attachicon.gifBASICS.ARC

 

4 different basics all with the EXT of EXE try these to verify that none work or all work.

 

With SDX44x the X should be prefaced to the filename.  Are you using you XEGS system with this problem, because my XEGS has problems running Turbobasic T20.EXE

 

 

Thank you Ridea6 I'll check these out as soon as I get back to my shop tomorrow. Be nice to find a BASIC that works with the stock amount of RAM.

 

 

Didn't notice you're using a stock 1200XL. The SIDE driver you're using to access the hard disk from SpartaDOS X is raising MEMLO very high since there's no extended RAM. This certainly explains SpeedScript's failure to load, and possibly Altirra BASIC's. Either get some kind of RAM upgrade or install an Ultimate 1MB (in the latter case you won't need the driver anyway since you'll have a PBI hard disk).

 

Yep just a stock 1200XL. I have a couple of U1meg's (one new one I bought at the same time as the Side2). I was originally intending to put these in my XEGS's, but the 1200XL has been modified already for S-Video which works great on my main monitor, so I've been using that instead. Will the U1meg's work for the 1200XL without a hitch?

 

- Michael



#8 Kyle22 ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:43 PM

I have a U1Meg in a 1200XL.  Instructions here: http://atariage.com/...-1mb-in-1200xl/



#9 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:26 AM

Altirra BASIC works with stock RAM, but the issue here is the RAM consumed by the hard disk driver.

As for Ultimate in a 1200XL: works beautifully unless you're faced with the odd machine which doesn't want to play (as I am right now), although such confounding issues are as likely to crop up in one per cent of cases with any of the A8 models if you happen to be cursed. :)

#10 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:01 AM

How high is MEMLO in the problematic configuration? ATBasic.xex has a load address of $2800, so hitting low memory conflicts means you've got a very high MEMLO, but I could potentially raise up the load address.



#11 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:15 AM

If Lotharek bundled a bunch of SDX drivers in CONFIG.SYS, SDX is using OSRAM, and with X.COM on top of that, $2800 is possibly within reach.

Actually, the OP should change USE BANKED to USE OSRAM and change DEVICE SPARTA to DEVICE SPARTA OSRAM in CONFIG.SYS as well. If MEMLO is spectacularly high, it's possible SDX is entirely resident in low memory.

Edited by flashjazzcat, Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:15 AM.


#12 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:51 AM

How high is MEMLO in the problematic configuration? ATBasic.xex has a load address of $2800, so hitting low memory conflicts means you've got a very high MEMLO, but I could potentially raise up the load address.

 

How can I check this? Please excuse my ignorance, but since I only got back into the Atari 8 only about a year ago after a 20 year break, it seems like I've forgotten almost everything about Spartados.

 

 

If Lotharek bundled a bunch of SDX drivers in CONFIG.SYS, SDX is using OSRAM, and with X.COM on top of that, $2800 is possibly within reach.

Actually, the OP should change USE BANKED to USE OSRAM and change DEVICE SPARTA to DEVICE SPARTA OSRAM in CONFIG.SYS as well. If MEMLO is spectacularly high, it's possible SDX is entirely resident in low memory.

 

It would be nice to have something like Altirra or Turbo Basic work with Side2 and no additional RAM, since I could see wanting to pop the Side2 cart into various machines, some with and some without extended RAM capabilities. Although all of my Atari's are XL or XE with 64k, which is obviously a bit better than a stock 800. So once again I see the reference to changing CONFIG.SYS, is there a good tutorial on just doing that? I browsed through the SDX manual, and although I see it talked about, it isn't extremely detailed which is what I need. Also how would I look at the CONFIG.SYS that presently exists, because it certainly isn't in any of the APT partitions on my CF card, so I'm assuming its in CAR???

 

Sorry for all the stupid questions  :dunce:

 

- Michael

 

EDIT: I'm thinking that the existing CONFIG.SYS is not changeable without re-flashing the SIDE2. So would that would mean creating a new CONFIG.SYS and placing it into the first APT partition Drive C: (D3), which I assume if it existed would be used instead of the built-in one?


Edited by mytekcontrols, Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:58 AM.


#13 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:17 AM

Type "MEM" to display MEMLO, among other things.

It would be nice to have something like Altirra or Turbo Basic work with Side2 and no additional RAM, since I could see wanting to pop the Side2 cart into various machines, some with and some without extended RAM capabilities. Although all of my Atari's are XL or XE with 64k, which is obviously a bit better than a stock 800. So once again I see the reference to changing CONFIG.SYS, is there a good tutorial on just doing that? I browsed through the SDX manual, and although I see it talked about, it isn't extremely detailed which is what I need. Also how would I look at the CONFIG.SYS that presently exists, because it certainly isn't in any of the APT partitions on my CF card, so I'm assuming its in CAR???


Download the SDX Imaging Tool from this page:

http://sdx.atari8.in...?show=en_addons

The program is fairly simple to use: you load the SDX ROM you want to modify, change it, save it, and flash it back to the target device. You'll need to start with a stock SDX ROM image for SIDE2, or the image on my website, or extract the binary from the actual flash ROM on your device (for which you can use UFLASH). Play with the stock ROMs first to get a feel for the editor, then we can walk through flashing, etc, if necessary.

You can edit CONFIG.SYS right in the imaging tool, fortunately.

The whole matter of HDD operation inside 64KB has been discussed a lot and various solutions found. MyIDE favours a soft-loaded customised OS to make the operating system "see" the cartridge-based hard disk, although this custom OS is better off in ROM, which in turn requires removal of the masked OS ROM chip, some kind of EPROM, or indeed Ultimate 1MB itself. And once you have Ultimate 1MB and SIDE, the solution presents itself via different means anyway.

With SIDE, we chose to target operation at SDX, since SDX is able to load the drivers from the cartridge at boot time (something no disk-based DOS is capable of doing). The HDD isn't bootable, but even with 128KB, it's a very usable system.

The ideal portable solution is a plug-in, proper PBI host adapter such as IDE Plus.

EDIT: I'm thinking that the existing CONFIG.SYS is not changeable without re-flashing the SIDE2. So would that would mean creating a new CONFIG.SYS and placing it into the first APT partition Drive C: (D3), which I assume if it existed would be used instead of the built-in one?


Not exactly. For the reasons outlined above, the CONFIG.SYS in the SDX ROM (i.e. the default CONFIG.SYS) needs to reference the SIDE driver (SIDE.SYS), so in this case - peculiarly - it's the CONFIG.SYS in ROM which needs to be changed. Having said that, there are ways to merge CONFIG.SYS files to partially overcome this which I'm not intimately familiar with, but which are nevertheless explained in the SDX manual.

#14 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:22 PM

attachicon.gifBASICS.ARC

 

4 different basics all with the EXT of EXE try these to verify that none work or all work.

 

With SDX44x the X should be prefaced to the filename.  Are you using you XEGS system with this problem, because my XEGS has problems running Turbobasic T20.EXE

 

 

I un-arc'ed your file into...

 

ATARI_C.EXE

OSBASIC.EXE

ATBASIC.EXE

T20.EXE

 

And then tested each one. Only the first two would actually load, but they did seem to work well, just a lower amount of free memory than without DOS (25102-25367).

 

Checking MEM from within SDX before loading anything showed...

 

MAIN: $2A5C, $2A5C

EXT: $FFB9, $FFB9

USE: OSRAM

 

The 'ATARI' prompt instead of 'READY' in ATARI_C was cute. BTW; I couldn't find anything on OSBASIC when doing either a Google search or a search on these forums. What is it?

 

Thanks again,

 

- Michael


Edited by mytekcontrols, Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:23 PM.


#15 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:36 PM

MAIN: $2A5C, $2A5C
EXT: $FFB9, $FFB9
USE: OSRAM


Can you copy CONFIG.SYS to the screen with:

TYPE CAR:CONFIG.SYS

If the second line is not DEVICE SPARTA OSRAM (which I imagine it is not), SDX will be taking its drive buffers from low memory instead of from $Cxxx. Only way to fix that is to edit CONFIG.SYS as described earlier.

Edited by flashjazzcat, Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:36 PM.


#16 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:44 PM

 

I un-arc'ed your file into...

 

ATARI_C.EXE

OSBASIC.EXE

ATBASIC.EXE

T20.EXE

 

 

The 'ATARI' prompt instead of 'READY' in ATARI_C was cute. BTW; I couldn't find anything on OSBASIC when doing either a Google search or a search on these forums. What is it?

 

Thanks again,

 

- Michael

That is the basic version 1.05 of the Emulator Atari++ by thorfdbg I can't remember his name but he has been doing the Atari++ emulator since forever.

http://atariage.com/...ting/?p=3375559

Attached File  atari++_win_1.73.zip   1.14MB   220 downloads

 

All the name changes are(were) for my personal use..


Edited by rdea6, Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:51 PM.


#17 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:01 PM

Can you copy CONFIG.SYS to the screen with:

TYPE CAR:CONFIG.SYS

If the second line is not DEVICE SPARTA OSRAM (which I imagine it is not), SDX will be taking its drive buffers from low memory instead of from $Cxxx. Only way to fix that is to edit CONFIG.SYS as described earlier.

 

USE BANKED

DEVICE SPARTA

DEVICE SIO

DEVICE ATARIDOS

DEVICE ULTIME

DEVICE SIDE

 

You are correct. Interesting how the CONFIG.SYS has BANKED but the MEM command showed OSRAM. Is that because there was no extended RAM available so it defaulted to OSRAM?

 

- Michael



#18 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:07 PM

That is the basic version 1.05 of the Emulator Atari++ by thorfdbg I can't remember his name but he has been doing the Atari++ emulator since forever.

http://atariage.com/...ting/?p=3375559

attachicon.gifatari++_win_1.73.zip

 

All the name changes are(were) for my personal use..

 

Thanks for the download which included the manual  :)

 

Yeah I kind of figured out the name change thing within the last 1/2 hour. Its hard to get used to such limited naming conventions after using linux and modern windows systems. ++ as part of the file name just doesn't fly with the Atari 8. Has anyone thought to expand on this, especially with SDX?

 

- Michael

 

EDIT: Opps I see that is not a download for BASIC++ but for the emulator ATARI++


Edited by mytekcontrols, Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:11 PM.


#19 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:11 PM

Interesting how the CONFIG.SYS has BANKED but the MEM command showed OSRAM. Is that because there was no extended RAM available so it defaulted to OSRAM?


Exactly so, but IIRC the sector buffers (unfortunately) don't default to $Cxxx in these circumstances.

#20 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:06 PM

Here's a version of the Altirra BASIC 1.50 loader that loads at $3000 instead of $2800.

 



#21 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:21 PM

Here's a version of the Altirra BASIC 1.50 loader that loads at $3000 instead of $2800.

 

 

Oops...Late night Phaeron :)

 

No attachment :)



#22 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:24 PM

 

Oops...Late night Phaeron :)

 

No attachment :)

 

It was attached in stealth mode  ;)



#23 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:04 PM

Middle of the afternoon, actually. I suppose clicking the 'attach this file' button instead of just 'browse' would have helped.

 

Attached Files



#24 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:56 PM

Unfortunately still pops up a 179 error. Looks like if I want to run that Basic without extended memory I would have to modify CONFIG.SYS on the Cartridge as Jon recommended. But since I do have two Basic's that currently work as is, I think I'll hold off on doing that for right now. I just needed a quick and easy portable solution for testing some I/O stuff via writing some simple Basic scripts, and it looks like I have something that satisfies that. Eventually all my systems will have extended RAM installed, so that will allow me to run either Altirra or Turbo Basic from Side2.

 

Thank you everyone for helping. And perhaps a bit later I'll come back to this and give the SDX re-flash a try.

 

- Michael







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