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OPCODE GAMES announces: IntelliXpander - Castlevania & Goonies! RESERVE NOW


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#351 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:58 PM

I think he is making the pedantic argument that a "port" is compiling a game from one platform to another, and a "conversion" is translating the code from one platform to another. :roll:

This sort of arguments just get in the way of the discussion (as you can plainly see) and obscure the main point, which is that games from the classic console can be re-made with enhanced capabilities on the IntelliXpander.

dZ.

Not really. If you have the ability to reuse existing code from other systems, like the SGM did for CV, than that is an advantage of the Intellixpander. It can quickly have a library of games making it an attractive platform.

Edit:
And translating code is something else. There's an excellent Coco3 version of donkey kong. The code was carefully translated from arcade z80 to 6809. I doubt back in the 80s nintendo even shared the code with coleco. Coleco would have rewritten the game. Not sure what is faster but translating would be better than rewriting. And reusing the code would be both faster and better.

Edited by mr_me, Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:33 PM.


#352 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:16 PM

Not really. If you have the ability to reuse existing code from other systems, like the SGM did for CV, than that is an advantage of the Intellixpander. It can quickly have a library of games making it an attractive platform.


Porting MSX stuff isn't my focus here, unless it makes perfect sense for the Intv crowd (more involving stuff like Metal Gear for example). But even if it was my focus, it isn't the same as porting MSX to CV, as the IntelliXpander has little in common other that the CPU. Personally a like the idea of recreating Atari era classics, and some stuff from the NES era too. As I get older I actually enjoy simpler games more and more.

#353 cmart604 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:40 PM

games from the classic console can be re-made with enhanced capabilities on the IntelliXpander.

dZ.


This is what is most exciting to me and I suspect lots of other Inty fans. I believe Ed would like to give us a look at what games on the Inty 3 and Inty 4 might have been like. Sounds cool to me. 😎

#354 artrag OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:45 PM

I hope you are going to use an F18A for the video

#355 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:03 PM

I hope you are going to use an F18A for the video


It isn't a F18A because that is a FPGA and we don't need TMS9918 compatibility. But it is something similar. :)

#356 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:46 PM

More WIP. What is inside that door?

IMG_2117.JPG

#357 cmart604 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:46 AM

Something cool I hope. 😂

#358 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:07 AM

More WIP. What is inside that door?

IMG_2117.JPG


Silver and Gold !!! ;)

#359 intellivotion ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:40 AM

something very special I guess. Might be one of the 30 existing copies of Blix, for example  :lol:



#360 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:56 AM

Add-ons are a uphill battle, but we did that with the SGM, where with the 4th run we will have 1,000 modules in the hands of fans, making it a near obligatory accessory if you want to enjoy modern ColecoVision.

I heard a lot of the same concerns back in 2010, and now the SGM is highly sought after accessory.

 

For the record, and I mean this in the politest way possible, I hope this isn't where the Intellivision is going. I like programming to the hardware constraints of the old platforms. If I wanted better graphics, etc I'd just get into NES dev.

 

So don't take this personally, but I hope this remains a niche item at best. It's hard enough to sell X copies of a game with this small community; cutting out the more casual gamers would just make it all the more difficult. And yes, these people do exist - it's not all hardcore AA fanatics buying modern homebrew!

 

Woulda been cool if there was a cost-affordable way to package the new functionality entirely within each cart. I realize how impractical that would be though :)



#361 artrag OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:14 AM

I thinl that an extension enabling CV or MSX compatibility would have a larger appeal both for intellivision users and for the retro developers of the other platforms.
It would allow inty users say 'my intellivision can run cv games', and to cv developers to target other platforms.
On the other side, intellivision developers should push for an intellivision module for cv (similar to the one enabling atari 2600 compatibility).

Edited by artrag, Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:16 AM.


#362 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:23 AM

For the record, and I mean this in the politest way possible, I hope this isn't where the Intellivision is going. I like programming to the hardware constraints of the old platforms. If I wanted better graphics, etc I'd just get into NES dev.


So I am assuming you are a developer? If so, I understand your point of view about liking the limitations.
 

So don't take this personally, but I hope this remains a niche item at best. It's hard enough to sell X copies of a game with this small community; cutting out the more casual gamers would just make it all the more difficult. And yes, these people do exist - it's not all hardcore AA fanatics buying modern homebrew!


I don't quite understand why you want the IntelliXpander to fail. Do you feel threatened by it in any way?
 

Woulda been cool if there was a cost-affordable way to package the new functionality entirely within each cart. I realize how impractical that would be though :)


So you find it ok if it is built in inside the cartridge but not ok if it is an expansion module? So you weren't against it after all? Again, it is fine you don't care about the advanced features, I understand. I just don't understand why you want it to be "a niche item at best".

#363 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:23 AM

On the other side, intellivision developers should push for an intellivision module for cv (similar to the one enabling atari 2600 compatibility).

 

This would be amazing, but it would also have to support the controllers.



#364 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:34 AM

So I am assuming you are a developer? If so, I understand your point of view about liking the limitations.
 

I don't quite understand why you want the IntelliXpander to fail. Do you feel threatened by it in any way?
 

So you find it ok if it is built in inside the cartridge but not ok if it is an expansion module? So you weren't against it after all? Again, it is fine you don't care about the advanced features, I understand. I just don't understand why you want it to be "a niche item at best".

 

I don't want it to fail, but I'd prefer if it doesn't become the de-facto standard for Intellivision gaming in the 21st century (at least, that's how I read your comment about the CV). For 2 potential reasons:

 

1. Those of us who enjoy programming to the original hardware will find ourselves with a non-existent market soon enough. Because everyone will just expect games to be written for the new unit.

 

2. People who don't buy the expansion unit are essentially "locked out" of new homebrew. Heck, half of the people buying Intellivision homebrew don't own an Intellivoice, and you can pick those up for $5 on Ebay. Same with the ECS. It's already easy to make a game that shuts out a large chunk of the market, and this with accessories that are essentially unlimited and very cheap. Fortunately most Inty devs write games assuming neither are present, so they're really just for extra effects for the people who can take advantage of them.

 

What I fear is a segmentation of the market (those with and without the new module), or worse, it becomes "a new obligatory accessory". If it were part of new carts, at least everyone could play the new games.

 

I realize this is a philosophical discussion. We already have things like RAM expansion in carts today - but to me this is more like bolting on an entirely new console to the unit. Plenty of people want that, don't get me wrong. It's not for me to dictate how people enjoy their games :) I just think we could lose something special if Intellivision homebrew essentially becomes an entirely new console target.

 

Don't get me wrong - if Oscar whips up IntyBASIC support for it, I'll almost certainly write some stuff for it :D



#365 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:45 AM

I don't want it to fail, but I'd prefer if it doesn't become the de-facto standard for Intellivision gaming in the 21st century (at least, that's how I read your comment about the CV). For 2 potential reasons:
 
1. Those of us who enjoy programming to the original hardware will find ourselves with a non-existent market soon enough. Because everyone will just expect games to be written for the new unit.
 
2. People who don't buy the expansion unit are essentially "locked out" of new homebrew. Heck, half of the people buying Intellivision homebrew don't own an Intellivoice, and you can pick those up for $5 on Ebay. Same with the ECS. It's already easy to make a game that shuts out a large chunk of the market, and this with accessories that are essentially unlimited and very cheap. Fortunately most Inty devs write games assuming neither are present, so they're really just for extra effects for the people who can take advantage of them.
 
What I fear is a segmentation of the market (those with and without the new module), or worse, it becomes "a new obligatory accessory". If it were part of new carts, at least everyone could play the new games.
 
I realize this is a philosophical discussion. We already have things like RAM expansion in carts today - but to me this is more like bolting on an entirely new console to the unit. Plenty of people want that, don't get me wrong. It's not for me to dictate how people enjoy their games :) I just think we could lose something special if Intellivision homebrew essentially becomes an entirely new console target.
 
Don't get me wrong - if Oscar whips up IntyBASIC support for it, I'll almost certainly write some stuff for it :D

Frankly, that isn't what happened with the ColecoVision. Instead the scene has flourished. I don't think we have less regular games today than we had 5 years ago, and they aren't selling less either. So I don't see what you describe happening with the IntelliXpander either. Regular games aren't going away. If "someone" faces an uphill battle, that is the IntelliXpander. But it will be one more option in the Intv arsenal, and it has the potential to attract new blood. We could make a few headlines once it is fully unveiled and attract attention to the Intv scene.

#366 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:55 AM

Frankly, that isn't what happened with the ColecoVision. Instead the scene has flourished. I don't think we have less regular games today than we had 5 years ago, and they aren't selling less either. So I don't see what you describe happening with the IntelliXpander either. Regular games aren't going away. If "someone" faces an uphill battle, that is the IntelliXpander. But it will be one more option in the Intv arsenal, and it has the potential to attract new blood. We could make a few headlines once it is fully unveiled and attract attention to the Intv scene.

 

The I guess I misunderstood the "near obligatory" comment. No worries. :) In a market where 200 copies of a game is a best-seller, it's easy to be paranoid about market fragmentation.



#367 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:59 AM

The I guess I misunderstood the "near obligatory" comment. No worries. :) In a market where 200 copies of a game is a best-seller, it's easy to be paranoid about market fragmentation.


What do you mean by 200 copies?! I was told 500 at least! We really can't trust people anymore. :(

#368 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:05 PM

What do you mean by 200 copies?! I was told 500 at least! We really can't trust people anymore. :(

 

Well, people are notoriously secretive about sales numbers for some bizarre reason. The BEST best sellers go well over 200, but that's certainly not the norm. Maybe people who track serial-numbered games can refute me - are there a lot of #4xx and up out there?



#369 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:06 PM

What do you mean by 200 copies?! I was told 500 at least! We really can't trust people anymore. :(

 

I always assumed that around 250 copies was the ceiling for most homebrews on pre-Crash systems? Generally the 50 - 250 copy range depending upon system and type of release. I also assumed that the Intellivision was usually in the 100 - 200 copy range for a significant release.



#370 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:07 PM

I was just kidding. 200 copies is ok, sounds similar to the CV space. :)
As long as I am having fun, all is good.

#371 freewheel OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:16 PM

I was just kidding. 200 copies is ok, sounds similar to the CV space. :)
As long as I am having fun, all is good.

:P

 

Well, when you mentioned 1000 units of the CV expanded my jaw just about dropped. If I could consistently sell 1000 copies of a game, I'd probably do this as a full-time job!



#372 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:17 PM

I always assumed that around 250 copies was the ceiling for most homebrews on pre-Crash systems? Generally the 50 - 250 copy range depending upon system and type of release. I also assumed that the Intellivision was usually in the 100 - 200 copy range for a significant release.


Gradius CV sold 250 copies day one. It is now availability constrained. Pac-Man Colelction sold out at 300 copies long ago, could reach 500 copies with the rerelease. And of course DK should get there as well once it is out. I assume DK Intv made similar numbers. I believe that 200 copies for an Intellixpander title would be possible if 1) we can get at least 300 modules in the hands of Intv users and 2) it is a compelling game. 3 or 4 compelling games during the launch window would also help make the Xpander becomes a desirable accessory.

#373 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:18 PM

:P
 
Well, when you mentioned 1000 units of the CV expanded my jaw just about dropped. If I could consistently sell 1000 copies of a game, I'd probably do this as a full-time job!


Man, me too!!! I wouldn't think twice!

#374 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:37 PM

I heard over 500 for Intellivision D2K Arcade (not including the special edition).

 

 

....And finally there is the chance there might be some cross development between the two, where someone can port games from the classic Intv to the IntelliXpander (as I plan to do), and vice versa.

This would be interesting, if you could write common game code that could be pushed out to both Intellivision and Intellixpander, ie. cross-platform development.


Edited by mr_me, Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:38 PM.


#375 opcode OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:06 PM

I heard over 500 for Intellivision D2K Arcade (not including the special edition).
 
 

This would be interesting, if you could write common game code that could be pushed out to both Intellivision and Intellixpander, ie. cross-platform development.


See, that is a pretty solid ceiling. So it is all about content, as with any modern platform. Can you imagine how some of our favorite classics would look and sound on the Xpander? Or even some of our homebrew favorites?




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