Atari 1090XL Schematics?

[Dropcheck]

Hello Lenore

 

It shouldn't be to difficult to make the BlackBox willing to share the bus. Both Guus Assmann and Matthias Belitz told me so. Bob Puff told me that the BlackBox used 4 of 5 PB IDs (the lower ones). If no other software, used for/in the BlackBox, accesses the other IDs, the BlackBox can be made to free up the bus when it's not in use. Parts needed wouldn't cost more then 50 cents, Matthias told me. The only thing they didn't want to tell me is how to do it.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Interesting..... My box would obviously have to have a passthru or someone would have to come up with some kind of mother_of_all adapters to get both on the same bus.

 

Wonder why they wouldn't tell you? Might not be as simple as they are saying........

[Lynxpro]

Funny. Joe Decuir is actively posting in the Antic Atari 8-bit Podcast Group on Facebook right now:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ataripodcast/permalink/1731912807086025/?comment_id=1731974017079904&notif_t=group_comment_reply&notif_id=1463933217202316

 

As one of the fathers of the PCS [400/800] Project, his thoughts would probably be of value here even if he wasn't part of creating PBI. He certainly intended for the 800 to have internal expansion, first inside what became the 800, and then later favoring internal expansion via external chassis like the later 1090XL...

Edited May 22, 2016 by Lynxpro

[Mathy]

Hello Lenore

 

Wonder why they wouldn't tell you? Might not be as simple as they are saying........

 

 

No, it should be real easy. I've met both guys in person more than a few times und trust them to speak the truth. BTW the mod would be a mod of the BlackBox.

 

I've always been under the impression (I read some of the PBI texts before) that the internal 1090XL connectors were an extended version of the PBI. Meaning that what would fit on the PBI would also fit inside the 1090XL (both mechanically and electronically). Although, since the internal 1090XL connectors have extra signals, a card for the 1090XL wouldn't necessarily work when plugged strait into the PBI. This BTW would also mean, that modern PBI devices (those that do stick to the rules) should work perfectly when plugged into the 1090XL. That would be the ideal situation, but I'm not sure if my impression is correct.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[flashjazzcat]

The immediate issue I can see with that is that the 1090 presents female connectors, while the PBI edge connector on the back of the XL is male.

[Mathy]

Hello Jon

 

Oops, I overlooked that. But a sex change should be a problem in this day and age.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[Bryan]

Funny. Joe Decuir is actively posting in the Antic Atari 8-bit Podcast Group on Facebook right now:

 

He used to post on AtariAge but I'm pretty sure he quit because of the rude comments of a certain individual.

[Dropcheck]

Hello Lenore

 

 

 

No, it should be real easy. I've met both guys in person more than a few times und trust them to speak the truth. BTW the mod would be a mod of the BlackBox.

 

I've always been under the impression (I read some of the PBI texts before) that the internal 1090XL connectors were an extended version of the PBI. Meaning that what would fit on the PBI would also fit inside the 1090XL (both mechanically and electronically). Although, since the internal 1090XL connectors have extra signals, a card for the 1090XL wouldn't necessarily work when plugged strait into the PBI. This BTW would also mean, that modern PBI devices (those that do stick to the rules) should work perfectly when plugged into the 1090XL. That would be the ideal situation, but I'm not sure if my impression is correct.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

The internal connectors are not a mirror image of the external PBI unfortunately. There are some additional signals, namely power, and the address and data are going to different pins etc.

 

Since I don't know of a single card that was fully working with drivers and populated etc I don't think there is much use to keep the internal connectors the same as the prototype. It would be better to combine the extra signals from the 130XE and present a unified internal connector.

[Lynxpro]

 

He used to post on AtariAge but I'm pretty sure he quit because of the rude comments of a certain individual.

 

Wait…what? Who was rude to him??? How can one be rude to Joe Decuir? He's a renaissance man!

[+Stephen]

 

Wait…what? Who was rude to him??? How can one be rude to Joe Decuir? He's a renaissance man!

There used to be some real twats here.

[Bryan]

 

Wait…what? Who was rude to him??? How can one be rude to Joe Decuir? He's a renaissance man!

PM Sent.

[Dropcheck]

I understand the need for +5V, and +/- 12V. Does anyone know or can guess why there is a need for +10V in this box?

 

I think I've found why the weird need for +10v. Looks like it has to do with serial communications. I've been looking at the various implementations of the RS232 interface with the Atari and it does seem to be mentioned a few times.

 

I've discovered a 2/3 chip solution for the RS232 interface. Maybe. While researching, I came across a blog entry by Igor Gramblicka made some years ago. He made a homemade RS232x1 cartridge based off of previous work by Roland Burhe on the ARGS RS232 Modul. Should be easy to convert for the interface box. If Roland Burhe is still around and a member, he might be willing to reimage his work. If not maybe I can get his permission to do so.

 

Now to find a similar solution for the parrallel interface.......

[Dropcheck]

 

I suppose the housing could have a display and buttons and each card that wanted to could be configurable through a common screen. You would just have a protocol to integrate them all into a common menu system.

 

I've gotten interested in touch screens and was toying with some manner of visual configuration of soft settings. I've picked up the Nextion model NX4024K032 from Itead. Should be here in a week or so. It is the enhanced version with 8 GPIO pins for internal/external communications. Maybe overkill, but I wanted to play with it to see if it might work in this situation.

 

Might reduce the external need for switches on the internal cards themselves. Might complicate them too.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Dropcheck

[Dropcheck]

Hello guys (m/f)

 

Why ISA? The 1090 has its own semi-standard. And with modern electronics it should be easier to make something much smaller than the average ISA card. And less power consuming. And more reliable. And maybe even easier to find.

 

The new cards inserted into the 1090 would probably be no bigger in physical size than 5 x 10 cm (about 2 by 4 inches). It should be possible to combine cards that have their own drivers on board with those that don't. And some of those could have an extra port (I2C?) for exchanging data that doesn't have to be shared with the Atari. This internal 1090 bus (the bus not connected to the Atari) could be connected to for instance a small display and/or a couple of switches/push buttons.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

That's kinda what I'm leaning towards. The 1090XLR would be no more than 10' x 10' x 6'(WxLxH) or 254x254x152mm. Might be smaller.

[Dropcheck]

Of the 7 signals present on the 130XE Cart/ECI pinout not on the 600XL/800XL which would need to be buffered?

 

D1XX

 

HALT

 

RD4

 

RD5

 

S4

 

S5

 

CCTL

 

Is the HALT signal on the 130XE ECI the same as the RDY signal on the 600XL/800XL PBI?

[Rybags]

Halt and Rdy both originate from Antic on Ataris. Halt being used to hold the 6502 in the part of the cycle where it's not on the memory bus.

Rdy is 6502 RDY signal, only used on Atari when WSYNC is written to, holds CPU inactive until just before the end of the scanline.

[Mathy]

Hello Lenore

 

ARGS = ABBUC Regionalgruppe Stuttgart. (AFAIK it no longer exists) I've asked who has the rights on the ABBUC forum.

 

BTW ARGS IMHO always meant "incompatible to just about everything". The RS232 board used the PBI, but as a dumb device.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[+CharlieChaplin]

And errmmm,

 

the ARGS RS232 module was made by Roland Buehler... not sure if Abbuc has all schematics of it.

There is an article with schematics about ARGS hardware in Abbuc (paper-) magazine 38, page 13... this should include the ARGS RS232 module, but I am not sure.

Edited May 24, 2016 by CharlieChaplin

[Mathy]

Hello Andreas

 

IIRC, schematics were published in one of the ABBUC Magazines. Years ago. (somewhere between #22 and #124)

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[sup8pdct]

 

(somewhere between #22 and #124)

 

That narrowed it down a bit

 

James

[+CharlieChaplin]

Hello Andreas

 

IIRC, schematics were published in one of the ABBUC Magazines. Years ago. (somewhere between #22 and #124)

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Well,

 

I visited the Abbuc homepage and did a search for Roland Buehler and the ARGS RS232 Module and the search function showed me the contents of Abbuc paper-magazine 38 as text - as said before, on page 13 onwards there is an article about the ARGS hardware and schematics, including the RS232 module. But I don`t have this issue of the Abbuc paper magazine... maybe you can take a look, Mathy (or some other ABBUC member) ?!?

[Dropcheck]

Here's the source Igor referenced for his original information. Apparently he made some minor changes to the original schematic.

[Dropcheck]

Starting out small and to not have to make mods to the internal computer layout, I would like to add a dedicated 600XL only memory slot. Ala an internal 1064XL. I have the schematics from Sobola, but although it's a start, it's also not accurate. Is there someone who can/will open their 600XL and do a continuity trace with the schematic I'll provide? Please PM me.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Dropcheck

[guus.assmann]

Hello Dropcheck and others of course.

 

I have several 6551 chips. (10+) and I'm willing to part with them.

Disadvantage is the high shipment cost if the go from NL to USA. (About $27 or so)

 

Also, I fail to see the use of an RS232 port as we have many good alternatives right now.

But if someone wants to make it, of course it's nice.

I have made the hardware long ago. See attached file.

This may very well be (almost) identical to the design from Germany.

 

I do have very good schematics for the 600XL and 800XL.

They are copies of Original Atari schematics, size A2.

So I'll try to scan them and then post those here.

 

BR/

Guus Assmann

UART.zip

[Mathy]

Hello Lenore, Andreas

 

Here's the source Igor referenced for his original information. Apparently he made some minor changes to the original schematic.

 

Looking at ABBUC Magazine #38, page 13 - 18, I see that what I thought was a PCB that should be plugged into the parallelbus interface in reality is a PCB that plugs into the cartridge port. And it's not an RS232 cartridge but a Centronics cartridge which also has a real time clock on board (RTC58321). The schematic is on page 18, last line on page 17 says: "In the next magazine, I'll show you the RS232 cartridge. In magazin #39 we find the schematic in the link Lenore posted.

 

BTW the 6551 can go a lot faster than 19k2. But I'm hoping somebody else knows exactly how to do that, because I'm not sure where that information is hiding.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

Edited May 25, 2016 by Mathy

[evilmoo]

BTW the 6551 can go a lot faster than 19k2. But I'm hoping somebody else knows exactly how to do that, because I'm not sure where that information is hiding.

 

From the datasheet, it looks like all it needs is some sort of external clock to drive it rather than a crystal.

 

But if this is for a new project, I think it makes more sense to use a more modern UART, preferably one that has built-in FIFO buffers, since they would support higher baud rates with lower chances of overrun due to the 6502.