What Is the Most Under-Rated Console?

[Ska_music_fan83]

Bah, humbug!

 

There are plenty of great games worth playing on the Cube besides Sunshine.

 

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door is perhaps the greatest RPG Mario adventure ever, with Paper Mario 64 and Super Mario RPG runners up.

 

Arguably the best Smash Bros.

 

Double Dash had the best battle mode of any Mario Kart with bomb blast, hands down.

 

Luigi's Mansion.

 

Wario's World, the first and only 3D Wario adventure.

 

Kirby Air Ride.

 

DK Jungle Beat.

 

Two Zeldas, albeit both are now available on Wii-U.

 

Ditto for Pikmin 1 & 2 and Metroid Prime 1 & 2, which got reissued on Wii.

 

A bit of an oddball, but true asymmetric gameplay with Pacman Vs. Why Nintendo did not reissue this game on the Wii-U Gamepad, I have no idea.

 

Before Virtual Console ever existed, you could play NES games in Animal Crossing.

 

An awesome futeball soccer game, Super Strikers...

 

Mario DDR.

 

Not under-powered, and actually semi-decent 3rd party support compared to N64, Wii, Wii-U, when you exclude FPS or RPG titles.

 

Although cute as they are, the mini discs did hurt Nintendo somewhat, much like the N64 carts...

This!

 

And...

 

Timesplitters 2 (Like Goldeneye except with much more options and better graphics)

The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (AWESOME 4-player adventure game!)

Sonic Adventure 2 Battle

Ikaruga

Super Monkey Ball 2 (Such a fun party game...)

Resident Evil 4

Donkey Konga (Another great party game...)

[CatPix]

 

As an American who has a really good CPC collection and obviously only knows about it from modern day collecting (since it was never released here), I'll agree it was a really nice hardware series, but I'll also agree that the audio-visuals in its software are generally pretty dreadful. I'm not sure that makes something underrated, though, rather than underutilized. After all, then or now, we can only rate something on what it actually produces consistently rather than its ultimate potential (which has been the key point about the healthy Jaguar discussions around these parts).

The CPC and PCW were released in the US, but on a very limited scale just saying, that might be a fun item to hunt for.

Plus, even if I don't wanna have one myself, I'll be very happy that a fellow AA member would get to preserve one ^^

 

Anywa I was more making a point that the C64 can in no way be considered underrated. If anything, in Europe, the C64VS "other machine" tend to get me thinkign that the C64 is more on the overrated side (but only slightly, because it is a very capable 8 bits).

 

Let's agree that we all disagree.

 

When it comes to systems with a wider library than you might think, and thus may be underrated on that merit, I must say that both the Oric and the Acorn Electron surprise me with relatively large libraries for having so small market shares. Even a fair share of 3rd party support. I've understood that the French Thomson series also have more titles than one first would think, but I don't know how closely it translates to the CoCo and Dragon 32 ranges so software might've been adopted from those.

I'm not sure either.

But from looking at things today, the Thomson were ultimately more successfull than the CoCo in France, and way more successful than the Dragon.

 

Plus a good bulk of the Thomson software is made of games programmed by French companies (UbiSoft, ERE Informatique, Loriciel, Infogrames) which at the time at least didn't exported their games outside France, or only the easiest to port/translate (like the Crazy Cars game from Titus - nothing to translate in a racing game).

 

And the TO7 and MO5 had different graphics modes which probably meant to reprogram most of the games to port on a CoCo or a Dragon.

 

1983 :TO7 : 320*200, 8 colors palette with color clashes

1984 :TO7-70 : 320*200, 16 colors palette with color clashes (but the added RAM allow to hide the color clashes in most games)

1984 : MO5 : 320*200, 16 colors palettes with color clashes (The MO5 feature more RAM than the TO7 but less than the TO7-70, meaning that the MO and TO series are "incompatible", you can't straight up boot a TO7 program on a MO5 or a MO5 program on a TO-70)

1986 : MO6/TO8/TO9 : 160*200, 16 colors, 320*200, 16 colors with color clashes, 640 × 200, 2 colors, all of those out of a 4096 palette.

 

1980 : CoCo /Dragon : 256*129, 9 colors palette

1986 : CoCo 3 : 160, 256, 320, 640* 192, 225 lines, 16 colors out of a 64 colors palette

 

The TO8 series was the most successful, tho not by a huge margin; by 1986 people were looking to the 16 bits computers, and whiel the previous TO and MO series had decent capabilities (and mostly, LOTS of expansions modules and a good flexibility for adapting peripherals - even today, how many computers allow you to load files from a SD card plugged in the Datasette port? The MO5 can) tho they weren't huge sellers compared to the CPC and C64 or even the Spectrum.

 

 

(yet note that on Thomson comptuers, the Datasette port is digital, not analog, this is why you can only use the Thomson tape readers on the Thomson computers).

 

The issue with the Thomson machines is that there is so few people programming for them today that they only have two choices :

programming for the most compatibility, and so the superior capacities of the TO8 and 9 series are ignored, or programming for the TO8 series, and so the TO7 and 7-70 are ignored.

Edited May 13, 2016 by CatPix

[Bill Loguidice]

The CPC and PCW were released in the US, but on a very limited scale just saying, that might be a fun item to hunt for.

Plus, even if I don't wanna have one myself, I'll be very happy that a fellow AA member would get to preserve one ^^

 

I'm aware of the PCW, but I didn't know about the CPC6128. According to Wikipedia it had a very limited release in the US. I've never once seen one, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Certainly I've seen multiple US versions of the BBC Micro (which also had a limited, but slightly more high profile roll-out), but, like with the CPC6128, it's obviously much easier just to get the UK version (which I have).

 

I have two French Thomson's as well (the M05's). Actually, I also have a French CPC6128plus. The most annoying thing about using the French systems are their AZERTY keyboards. Fortunately, it's a relatively easy switch to (virtual) QWERTY on the Amstrad by just booting up another region's BIOS, although I'm not aware of an easy way to do it on the Thomson.

[CatPix]

This is getting off-topic but heh. There isn't much wawys to put a MO5 in QWERTY.

The fastest way for you is probably hoping to find a rare MO5E :

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=838

 

 

Still in the amazing MO5 capabilities : loading images from the JOYSTICK PORT :

 

A cheaper solution but would require some skills from you would be to find the ROM image of the MO5E BASIC and put in on a Memo5 cartridge, so your standard MO5 would boot with a QWERTY BASIC on.

[+5-11under]

Regarding those Thomsons, those accessories look very useful, but they could really use an extension cable or supported case.

[Flojomojo]

Regarding those Thomsons, those accessories look very useful, but they could really use an extension cable or supported case.

Yeah, I'm getting anxious just looking at the pictures. Snap!

[hafner]

Any sort of overrated/underrated conversation breaks down because people don't establish up front the answer to the most important question - underrated or overrated to whom? This has a huge impact.

 

To break down some of the systems called out in this thread:

- Sega Master System was underrated at its release in the US, and today with retro gamers in the US, but was properly appreciated in Europe.

- The Nintendo Wii is properly rated/overrated by casual games based on sales, but the experience with its best games is unfairly underrated by hard-core gamers.

- The Bally Astrocade was underrated at its release, which is why it underperformed in the market vs. the competition. However, it is now properly appreciated by retro games. You could say the same for the Vectrex.

- The Atari 7800 sold well, so it wasn't underrated at launch, but it is now underrated by retro gamers compared to the 2600 and NES.

- The Atari 8-bit computers were rated fairly at launch, but are underrated now because they seem almost unremembered today by the general population compared to the C64 and Apple II.

 

Fair?

 

My contribution - on the computer side, the TI99/4A and VIC-20 sold well back in the day, but both are more fun today than you'd expect given their profile in the retro gaming scene. I'm less conversant in consoles, but I'd say I enjoy Fairchild Channel F games much more than most people seem to.

[Andromeda Stardust]

^^Good Writeup. Right along with the so-called "hidden gems" category of games, great "underdog" games and systems are being found out by gamers and collectors alike, leading to substantial price rises. Nowadays you're much less likely to turn over a rock to find gold. "Underdog" consoles are getting the recognition they deserved 20 years too late, leading to drastic price hikes.

 

Turbografx is an extremely good example. Largely ignored in the US despite an excellent library, games fetch quite high prices now. Yet take one look in Japan and you'll see the games and used systems are common as dirt and still relatively cheap, with most games selling on par with Super Famicom and Mega Drive.

 

That's one reason I expect the Wii-U to hold value with time. Excellent library of underappreciated titles. We will see what happens in the future of Nintendo as a hardware developer will sink or swim on the NX.

[CatPix]

Fair?

Totally fair

 

But to be honest, this make the thread more interesting as it lead people to put out ideas and points of views that other won't have. And interesting side chatting as well

[MotoRacer]

You're all wrong! Clearly my opinions on what is appreciated by me and what is not appreciated by me are 100% applicable for everyone in the world. Everyone should play what I play, and what I play only.

 

Wait, scratch that. Don't play what I play. And sell me those games and systems to me for pennies as they are now deemed worthless. Furthermore, I have a game.com for sale for $500 as its now deemed popular for you (not for me).

 

I have spoken. Make it so.

 

((Yes, all this was to somehow shoe horn the crappy game.com into an under appreciation thread))

Edited May 14, 2016 by MotoRacer

[EdwardK]

Sega Saturn got a bad rap down where i'm at. Have a friend who had one that hated it, and is still convinced that only 10 games came out for it and all of them sucked. I personally think it had some good titles and generally think it doesn't deserve all the hate it got. (well, hate in my region. no idea how it did elsewhere)

[CatPix]

In Europe it was enjoyed... as long as you could get into imports.

I do'nt recall much people being dissapointed by the Saturn itself not by the games offered, but were heavily dissapointed by the games we did NOT got. Several gaming magazines had the habit to publish the Japanese releases (at least the high profile ones) and people were desperate to get them.

Sadly, as a part of "let's definitively screw our public" policy that Sega seems to have adopted in the 90's, Sega gave Sega of America the task to select and sort games that would be released in Europe, and as a move to couteract the Playstation and N64, Sega America rejected almost all 2D games and arcade style games ( a very strange move, given how previously, Sega Europe would ship games to the US for the SMS).

It still resulted in the early 2000's in a lenghty period of disregard for the Saturn; non fans had no special will to keep one, and Hardcore fans had Japanese models (the Saturn Jap BIOS come in multilingual versions).

Edited May 14, 2016 by CatPix

[Austin]

The Saturn had a nice library in North America, well over 200 games I believe and a good variety of titles. Regardless of where you were though, you were missing out if you weren't importing some of the Japan exclusives.

[Rick Dangerous]

I would say Sega Saturn. Fairly deep library IMO for a "failed" system. Have been doing a lot of Saturn gaming lately. And the 3DO, which I feel the same way about as the Saturn. Decent library, great graphics, very ahead of its time. Actually felt "next gen" in 1993.

 

I'm starting to think the SMS was underrated as well. Seems much more powerful than the NES, hasn't ceased to impress me.

[Professor Gull]

Funny to thin back on the Saturn and PlayStation 1 at the time. My roommate got the PlayStation 1 and I got the Saturn. We compared similar games at times like Tomb Raider, Marvel Vs Street Fighter, Resident Evil for good examples. Both looked pretty good and functioned well. My big note was the load times though always seemed shorter on the Saturn but to be fair with the PlayStation pulling memory cards was friendly feature as well unless you had a Saturn Memory cart. What really made me choose one over the other were the controllers. I really like the Saturn one right up to the point that PlayStation did their Dual Shock Analog then it was tough to choose. Cause the dual shock really worked well and sadly all Saturn got was the 3d controller which not all games supported.

 

Both systems had nice libraries though but being I was so close to NYC at the time the Saturn allowed me to play imports easy and peasy with the Action Replay cart. The PlayStation had to get taken apart and modded to do the same.

 

But to each their own I still have both systems in my possession thankfully.

[BassGuitari]

I'm starting to think the SMS was underrated as well. Seems much more powerful than the NES, hasn't ceased to impress me.

On paper, maybe. The NES has the better library, IMO, and it really isn't close.

 

I think the SMS is underrated in the sense that outside the realm of collectors, it's a fairly unknown system. For instance, even BITD I didn't even know there *was* an 8-bit Sega console until after the Saturn came out. Nevertheless, it has its good games that merit more recognition than they seem to get.

[BassGuitari]

Both systems had nice libraries though but being I was so close to NYC at the time the Saturn allowed me to play imports easy and peasy with the Action Replay cart. The PlayStation had to get taken apart and modded to do the same.

My brother had an Action Replay or Xplorer or somesuch that plugged into the parallel port on our PS1.

 

Did your roommate have a later version of the PS1 that ditched the PIO?

[Professor Gull]

My brother had an Action Replay or Xplorer or somesuch that plugged into the parallel port on our PS1.

 

Did your roommate have a later version of the PS1 that ditched the PIO?

No it was a first Gen model the Audiophile one. I think what ended up happening is the mod chips were cheap like $5 and soldering was well practiced for a PC mechanic back in the day.

 

I remember the Parallel port deal but I think that came much later and at that point the PS1 was all modded to play whatever you put in it CDR's and all.

[Rick Dangerous]

BITD I didn't even know there *was* an 8-bit Sega console

 

Me either, I might have bought some of these systems at the time if they were marketed a little better!

[Shinju]

On paper, maybe. The NES has the better library, IMO, and it really isn't close.

 

I think the SMS is underrated in the sense that outside the realm of collectors, it's a fairly unknown system. For instance, even BITD I didn't even know there *was* an 8-bit Sega console until after the Saturn came out. Nevertheless, it has its good games that merit more recognition than they seem to get.

 

Sega Master Systems demise was mostly due to Tonka being piss poor about marketing and Nintendo having a kung fu grip on 3rd party producers making games for other systems here in the states and japan.

 

SMS in Europe did not have those restrictions and that is why the SMS euro title line up is almost x2 of what we had here in the states and loads of 3rd party games too.

 

For me being in my 40's I saw both NES and SMS in our local retail stores hell even kiosk for both NES and SMS right next to one another.

 

I have not read though all 5 pages, but for me the most underdog and underrated console here in the states would have to be TurboGrafx-16.

 

NEC had ZERO foothold in the game industry console market here in the states when they released it, no one really noticed.

 

TG16 has a super small library of Hucard games, and an even smaller CD-Rom library here in the states, Japan and PC-Engine was huge, hundreds of HuCard titles and almost as many CD-Rom based games too.

 

NEC/TG16 also suffered from Nintendo and their super tight policy on signed with NOA/NOJ 3rd pary producers/devs making games for other consoles, quite a few of the TG-16 games were Hudson or Victor Industries as well as a few other smaller dev houses, very few games made here in the states big name producers.

 

TurboGrafx-16 games are pretty uncommon to find in the wild today, I used to see them quite a bit but over the last 5-6 years outside of retro game expo's and local buy sell trade retro groups I never see much Turbo games anymore.

 

 

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Me either, I might have bought some of these systems at the time if they were marketed a little better!

 

Maybe it depends on your age at the time? I have vivid recollections of Nintendo and Sega commercials and in-store displays and playable kiosks throughout the effective lifespans of both the NES and SMS. There was relatively little of that for the 7800 from what I recall. At best, I remember a handful of magazine ads.

[Gabriel]

I'm starting to think the SMS was underrated as well. Seems much more powerful than the NES, hasn't ceased to impress me.

 

Looking at some of the games now, it's amazing what the hardware could do. It was easily better than the NES hardware.

 

But the problem was that all that power was behind effectively nothing. Looking at the library there's not much of anything that stands out. Most of what was good on the SMS has superior versions on the Genesis, so there is little point bothering with it now. And there's not all that much for the system in the first place.

 

It would be great to see a homebrew scene spring up around the SMS. One can only hope there is some alternate universe where the SMS was the dominant system of the late 80s and had all that support that went to the NES instead.

[CatPix]

 

One can only hope there is some alternate universe where the SMS was the dominant system of the late 80s

 

Europe?

[empsolo]

Personally, I was never all that impressed by the Master System. The games may have had more colours but a lot of the first party sega games look like they were made in MS paint.

 

Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk

[+wongojack]

Maybe it depends on your age at the time? I have vivid recollections of Nintendo and Sega commercials and in-store displays and playable kiosks throughout the effective lifespans of both the NES and SMS. There was relatively little of that for the 7800 from what I recall. At best, I remember a handful of magazine ads.

 

I never saw these. It is possible that by the time I was spending my own lawn mowing money on games that they were already gone. Or maybe my region of the country just didn't have the marketing push. However, if I did see a Kiosk with Super Mario Bros on one side and Hang On on the other, boy that would have been an awful comparison for the SMS.