What Is the Most Under-Rated Console?

[empsolo]

Because it had a crapton of mapper chips in the cart to help the console do what it couldn't, natively.

Sega did use mapper chips in the Master System. It's just that the chips sega used just flat out sucked.

 

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[Shinju]

Borrowed this from a site, its pretty much what I was going to say in retort.

Again, I like both equally, hard to pick one over the other when they both have excellent games to offer, import or domestic.

SMS: Palette is made from RGB values. 2bit per element.

NES: Palette is based on Luma/chroma. Some colors are better/blend better on the NES. Some on the NES. NES also has higher luma control. For each R/G/B element per screen. Technically, it's like a total of 400+ colors, but really ever used. Too bad that they didn't. So besides some redundant colors, you have around 52-56 on the NES. Less colors for the master palette, but better overall IMO.

Winner: Hmm..I'd say NES.


SMS: Can have up to sixteen colors in a single 8x8 tile and another 15 for a single 8x8/8x16 sprite.

NES: Has 4 colors per 16x16 metatile (a tile is 8x8, but color is fixed for a block of four). Sprites have 3 colors per 8x8 or 8x16. The NES gets around the problem by having four subpalettes of 4 colors for a tile to choose from. Sprites have their own four subpalettes of 4 colors, but the first color is always ignored/not shown. Max colors on screen for NES is 26. Max colors onscreen for SMS is 31. It looks close, but SMS can show more detail in color in a smaller space/area.

Winner: SMS clearly wins with its high color counter per tile/sprite cell.


SMS: Has tilemap screen size slightly larger than the screen. Somewhat limiting. Has tile flipping (saves some vram for some types of patterns).

NES: Has a tilemap 4 times the screen size. But there's only enough ram on the system for 1/2 that. Still larger than SMS. Makes for smoother and/or easier scrolling map routines. Carts were able to mirror (you can pick between horizontal or vertical mirroring) the missing map memory so that it "wraps" correctly, or the cart could include the extra needed VRAM to make use of all four tilemap sections. Through some exploit, MMC5 mapper was able to hack the tilemap in realtime to provide the NES with 8x8 palette blocking. It increased the tile graphics. I think only a few games took advantage of this.

Winner: NES is the definite winner.


SMS: Has 16k of vram. A nice chunk of vram until you realize that the tiles and sprites take up twice the memory on SMS vs NES. So it puts it the same.

NES: The real strength of the NES is that all video memory is on the cart. There is no VRAM for tiles or sprites on the system itself. So it be VRAM or it can be VROM. And since it's on the cart, you can mappers to quickly switch out vram or vrom. Depending on the mapper, you can do fine/small swapping to larger/whole banks, or in variable sized chunks. It can swap on/out up to all of vram in a matter of a handful of cycles. In comparison, the SMS has to slowly update it's small setup of vram. Hell, it can even swap in/out tiles/sprites faster than any of the 16bit systems. And it can do it mid screen too.

Winner: NES is the strong/clear winner here.


SMS: Sprite size is 8x8 or 8x16. Sprite table holds a max of 64 sprites. Can only show 8 sprites per scanline. Doesn't support horizontal and/or vertical "flipping". Has horizontal sprite zooming (double pixels), but it's broken and only works for the first 4 sprites. SMS has to manual update the sprite table.

NES: Sprite size is 8x8 or 8x16. Sprite table holds a max of 64 sprites. Can only show 8 sprites per scanline. Does support horizontal and/or vertical "flipping". NES has a fast sprite DMA that reads from on board ram to vram.

Winner. NES for the flipping options and sprite dma. Otherwise, no different for onscreen or per scanline (flicker/blankout). BUT.. if you count that the SMS can do software sprites much better than NES because of the high color count per cell, albeit choppy animation/movement, then the SMS clearly gets the win. Golden Axe on SMS being one example. SMS software sprites have a down side that they are choppy and take cpu resource to overlay, and can take several frames to update. They also consume more vram unique tiles which means less detail for the background.


SMS: Ram. Stock SMS has 8k of on board ram. This is decent but also necessary because 4bit tiles/sprites take up more space and need to be compressed (also decompressed to ram). More memory is also easier for map routines. More is mappable via external cart.

NES: Ram. Stock NES has only 2k of ram. That's pretty tight for things. A lot of games had expanded ram on the cart. Sometimes this was accompanied by a battery for also saving games.

Winner: SMS, but this becomes a null issue once ram is accompanied on the cart.


SMS: SMS has a register to keep a section of the tile map fixed for a "status window". Stock SMS also has horizontal interrupts. Can make some nice parallax effects out of the box.

NES: NES uses sprite 0 active method to achieve the same thing as the SMS's static status window. It's not as efficient and wastes some code as you having to poll the status register. A stock NES has not scanline interrupts. Later mappers added this though. MMC3 mapper is a popular one that supports it.

Winner: SMS for stock setup. Both are equal though, once an NES is setup with the correct mapper.


SMS: 8bit z80 processor running at 3.58mhz. Twice clock speed as the NES.

NES: 8bit 6502 processor running at 1.79mhz. Half the clock rate of the SMS. The devil is in the details, while half the speed, the instructions are much faster on the 6502. Not to mention some nice instructions and address modes that don't exist on the z80.

Winner: Hmm. I'd have to give this to the NES. Having coded for both, 6502 code tends to give better results with optimization. But the performance difference isn't huge relative to the different clock rates.


SMS: Sound. Stock system has 3 tones channels and 1 noise channel. The tone channels have a fixed waveform. Standard square. Basic as you can get. Noise channel is limited in setup. Standard volume at 4bit non linear. No other hardware features.

NES: Sound. Stock system has 2 lead channels, 1 triangle/bass channel, 1 noise channel, 1 sample channel. Both leads channel have be individually assigned 1 or 4 waveforms (variations of square waves). Triangle channel is used for bass lines, but has not volume control and frequency is 1/2 range of lead channels. Noise channel has volume control and 16 ranges of frequencies to pick. Sample channel is either DPCM at 1bit delta for a max of 6bit output or a direct write at 7bit raw PCM. Has no volume control. In DPCM mode, it feeds itself and after reading 4k will generate an interrupt for the CPU to change the bank (for longer samples). Very impressive for 1983. Almost no games take advantage of this channel pre SMB3 and not many afterwards. SMB3 steel drum sample uses this channel. NES also has hardware note length, hardware decay volume envelope, and hardware repeating sweep envelope.

Winner: For stock setup, clearly the NES. Japanese SMS has the (very limit) FM addon chip. But on the same token, Japanese FC had lots of mappers that added additional sound channels. Some as many as 8-10 more channels, including a game that used a FM addon chip similar to the SMS one.


Besides color count/detail, NES beats out the SMS in all other hardware. Strange considering the SMS came out 2 years later. The NES might require mappers in some instances, but the whole design of the original famicom included mapper integration. But judging from the games on both systems, especially the good ones, there isn't much real world difference. Heck, even with SMS's (choppy) software sprites - some games clearly look ahead of the NES. Space Harrier, R-Type, Golden Axe. I'm sure other can point out more examples. I personally don't care for the choppiness of the software sprites though. 60fps of real sprites is just better, not to mention 60fps gameplay.

[simbalion]

Ok, this was not meant to be an NES vs SMS thread.

[Shinju]

Funny how things turn out the way you never intended them to be!

But yes, this has gone off course pretty far now.

I still stand by my earlier statement that the TG-16 was the underdog console!

[+FujiSkunk]

I won't dispute the NES is technically better than the SMS, especially when mapper hardware is thrown into the mix. Ultimately, however, that's a different discussion than whether the SMS is an underrated console. I still say it is, and I still say the differences, however they may benefit the NES in comparisons, do not make for a convincing argument against the SMS being underrated, because the differences really aren't that great between the two consoles.

[empsolo]

I won't dispute the NES is technically better than the SMS, especially when mapper hardware is thrown into the mix. Ultimately, however, that's a different discussion than whether the SMS is an underrated console. I still say it is, and I still say the differences, however they may benefit the NES in comparisons, do not make for a convincing argument against the SMS being underrated, because the differences really aren't that great between the two consoles.

The problem is that unlike the PC Engine or the Neo-Geo, there are only a small handful of games for the Master System that are either worth playing or owning. And that number includes Japanese and European import games. For that reason alone, I don't consider the Master System to be an "under rated" console.

 

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[atarifanboi]

OK, I'm going to try and kick start this thread again with some more suggestions:

 

Neo Geo Pocket Colour

Sony PSP

GP32

&

GP2X

 

Dicuss

Edited May 18, 2016 by atarifanboi

[+FujiSkunk]

The problem is that unlike the PC Engine or the Neo-Geo, there are only a small handful of games for the Master System that are either worth playing or owning. And that number includes Japanese and European import games. For that reason alone, I don't consider the Master System to be an "under rated" console.

 

Having sampled many of those European titles, I disagree.

[simbalion]

I have a Neo Geo Pocket Color put away somewhere. Bought it during its very limited re-release from Electronic Boutique and I agree it is a rather under-rated console. Better to see screen than the Game Boy Color or the Game Boy advance and some nice games to boot!

Edited May 18, 2016 by simbalion

[Andromeda Stardust]

I was going to reply to the NES/SMS thing, but it appears that anything I could possibly have contributed has already been said. I don't have an SMS but I have a handful of carts, a PowerBase Mini adapter, and an Everdrive MD which plays both ROM formats. It seems some of the better "late great" SMS titles are all available on the Megadrive/Genesis.

 

SMS is more like the 7800 as opposed to NES. Both under-performed at the market and both have a rather lackluster library devoid of great 3rd party titles. Sure there's a few gems but it's not the smorgasbord of great games like NES or SNES/Genesis or even the sheer variety of Atari VCS.

 

All this talk of what either console is technically capable of is moot. It's library that counts. It was library that counted back in the day, and library that counts now with gamers/collectors. We all know SMS and 7800 are "low hanging fruit" for complete set collectors.

 

In fact I'll even give the 7800 a slight leg up for homebrew support and backwards compatibility despite being technically inferior to SMS and NES. Both SMS and 7800 are underdogs and were neither over or underrated in my opinion.

 

Turbografx is another story, even if if failed to put a dent in the SNES/Genesis fanboy wars, the library definitely lives up to the modern day hype.

[78001987]

I personally think the SMS is underrated. I think there are a great number of games that are worth owning, and not a lot of people know about them.

 

I'm not going to compare it to other systems.

[adamchevy]

I recently picked up an odyssey 2 thanks to this thread. I swapped the rf cable with a new one and use an rf adapter. The odyssey 2 looks a lot better on my crt than my heavy sixer does. I'm really enjoying the great games like pick axe Pete, kcs crazy chase, and killer bees.

[Video]

I loved the neogeo pocket color and bought one literally two days before neogeo pulled the plug on it. What a crock. It was perfectly capable handheld with some great games. Sonic metal slug and bust a move got most of my playtime. Just to bad the batteries lasted longer than the system did. Love the 40 hr battery life.

 

One handheld id say was underrated was the game.com even with its outdated (by early 80's standards) screen it had some great games and I still play it this day. Yeah it had some shit games (that really sucked) but most of the library is actually decent and I'd say about a third are actually worth owning and playing. That's better than most systems or handhelds. It just suffered from the audacity of going up against the gameboy but go into it without the Gb fanboy mode on and its pretty cool.

[high voltage]

This one.

[Flojomojo]

I know it sold a lot, but I don't think everyone quite appreciates how amazing the DS software lineup is.

 

This thread can help

 

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=222049

[Andromeda Stardust]

DS series and Wii both sold about 100,000,000 units. More than Game Boy series, more than any Nintendo console before or since.

 

Neither is underrated. Both have excellent libraries when you look past all the casual shovelware.

[Gabriel]

I know it sold a lot, but I don't think everyone quite appreciates how amazing the DS software lineup is.

 

This thread can help

 

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=222049

 

The DS library got good the moment everyone abandoned the stupid touchscreen gimmick and went back to making games instead of touchscreen tech demos.

[KidGameR186496]

For me,they're:

Atari Jaguar,Sega Master System,Virtual Boy,3DO & Odyssey 2.

[Ska_music_fan83]

Honestly, anything Atari related is underrated in my opinion nowadays, especially the Atari 2600. When I go into any retro game shop, I rarely see Atari games given the "love" that other systems have. What I mean by that is they aren't displayed like everything else. NES, SNES and Genesis games are almost always in a display case that's locked up. Atari 2600 games are usually scattered in some random container or box or shelf somewhere that aren't as visible or they don't even bother to carry the games at all. I remember walking into a store one time that had Atari games on the ground in a dirty beaten-up box. They were still all dusty and dirty, obviously the store owner didn't care to clean them up before they tried to sell them.

Plus new "retro gamers" these days usually don't even bother with the Atari 2600, they usually start with the NES or later, which is a huge shame because the Atari 2600 has some really good games.

[KidGameR186496]

Honestly, anything Atari related is underrated in my opinion nowadays, especially the Atari 2600. When I go into any retro game shop, I rarely see Atari games given the "love" that other systems have. What I mean by that is they aren't displayed like everything else. NES, SNES and Genesis games are almost always in a display case that's locked up. Atari 2600 games are usually scattered in some random container or box or shelf somewhere that aren't as visible or they don't even bother to carry the games at all. I remember walking into a store one time that had Atari games on the ground in a dirty beaten-up box. They were still all dusty and dirty, obviously the store owner didn't care to clean them up before they tried to sell them.

Plus new "retro gamers" these days usually don't even bother with the Atari 2600, they usually start with the NES or later, which is a huge shame because the Atari 2600 has some really good games.

 

It's really depressing seeing good Atari hardware and games just piling up dust

[madhatter667]

I'm a fan of the TG16/PCE and the associated CD stuff. I don't know if it falls into under-rated these days. I sure won't ever replace my consoles for the prices I bought them for (sold them like a moron, and was desperate for money). Definitely a cult item though, and has some great titles in its library.

 

Sega CD is another one I am currently on a kick about. I missed this one the first time around. I had a Genesis, and 32X at one point, never dug up a CD unit though. There's some really great stuff on there, though not nearly in the same number as some of the other systems.

 

Saturn didn't get a lot of love, but has a very strong import gaming scene from what I can tell.

 

I had a Neo Geo Pocket Color, and it was a nice handheld. I didn't get an opportunity to expand the library much.

 

I seriously miss the Lynx. That was not quite the handheld market crusher it should have been, but I kick myself about selling it every time I talk about the Lynx.

 

Those are all pretty well known names though.

[Neuronic]

Odyssey2

[+Darrin9999]

Emerson Arcadia 2001

[+Darrin9999]

Bally Astrocade