Pentium II for DOS gaming?

[cbmeeks]

So I'm digging through my massive collection of computers and junk. :-)

 

I stumble upon a P2 motherboard with Intel CPU (not sure of speed), 32 x 2 (64) MB of RAM, SoundBlaster Live! (LOVE THIS CARD) and a PCI video card with DVI/VGA and COMPOSITE! out. I believe the video card is an ATI RV6P.

 

I only need a case, hard drive, floppy drive and power supply. Assuming all of the components still work.

 

The board has two USB ports, LPT (the gold ole days!), TWO 9 pin SERIAL (YES!) and PS/2 connectors. The board even has THREE ISA slots, four PCI and a AGP (I think).

 

So the video card could probably be upgraded to AGP but I don't have one of those.

 

Anyway, I'm only interested in DOS games so I think this setup would scream with them. Doom would be about the highest-end game I would want to play.

 

I'm also thinking of buying a 386 and 486 for retro goodness too. But that is a separate topic. I believe P2 is still "retro" enough but with enough horsepower to drive many DOS games.

 

Keep in mind I use DOS Box on my modern PC. But I want *REAL* hardware too.

 

My questions are:

 

1) Worth the effort? Or would a P3 be better?

 

2) 64 MB seems plenty. Would you agree?

 

3) What would you do differently? Keeping in mind I'm trying to keep my purchases minimal.

 

4) Floppy drives are becoming more "collectible" (i.e., expensive). What do you recommend for modern floppy replacement?

 

5) Should I put Windows on there at all? Networking it might be nice. But, I don't care about browsing the internet with it. If so, what version of Windows? Windows 3.11 might be nice.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[CatPix]

1) Depends. Remember that "MS DOS games" cover a time period starting around 1983 and ending around 1997. Without telling us much, it's hard to say. A PII is overkill for all games released before 1990, and for many, will make them unplayable since programmers used the CPU clock to define the game speed, resulting is sped-up games.

 

2) 64Mo should cover all yours needs for MS-DOS games. I can't think of late MS-DOS games neeed that much RAM.

 

3) I dunno really

 

4) the GoTek floppy emulator cost about 20$ and emulate a 3,5" drive 1,44Mo. (beware, despite being able to read from USB keys or SD card, it does NOT allow to read more than 1.44Mo at once)

 

5) I would put at least Windows 3.11. For networking and putting the USB to use, I would install Windows 98SE so you can browse, move files easily, and also transfer files from USB rather than the floppy/Gotek.

Also, many games will run better or easier with Windows, and some games from the era will run fine on your config and need a Windows system to run, it would be nice to be able to play them.

Edited May 14, 2016 by CatPix

[Great Hierophant]

1. Personally I would not go higher than a 486DX2 if you are intending only on playing DOOM-hardware requirement level games. But a P3 is not a better choice than a P2 for the speed issues CatPix previously mentioned.

 

2. 64MB is more than sufficient, pull one of the RAM sticks if games start complaining about memory issues.

 

3. Remove the SoundBlaster Live! and install an ISA Sound Blaster 16 instead.

 

4. I have never used the Gotek thing, I have several cheapo 3.5" HD drives, but I rarely use them.

 

5. I would place Windows 3.11 to 98SE on there for networking for file transfer. USB 1.1 is not very impressive when it comes to transfer speed and that is what you can expect for a P2 system.

[CatPix]

I was more thinking about transfer file reliability.

I wanted to transfer game files on an old rig, and I was stuck with files being 2Mo... heh, yeah, no floppy can do that. And I can't find my Zip // drive. And I couldn't find any software that allowed to split files and reuild them back with an EXE like you could do BITD. I wasn't thinking about file transfer speed but file transfert ease.

[Great Hierophant]

I was more thinking about transfer file reliability.

I wanted to transfer game files on an old rig, and I was stuck with files being 2Mo... heh, yeah, no floppy can do that. And I can't find my Zip // drive. And I couldn't find any software that allowed to split files and reuild them back with an EXE like you could do BITD. I wasn't thinking about file transfer speed but file transfert ease.

 

I do not dispute that USB is better than floppies, but network transfers are better than both. Since he has a P2 a 10/100Mbit Ethernet card is dirt cheap. Mount a network drive in your modern machine and pretty much any version of Windows will be able to read (but not write) from that drive. You don't even have to get out of your chair! Talk about lazy.

 

Network transfers can be done in DOS, but the easiest way to do that is to set up your DOS machine to act as an FTP Server and use a modern system to transfer files to it via an FTP Client. Its easy to do if your card has a DOS Packet Driver. I have done it this way with systems as slow as my IBM PCjr.

[CatPix]

Oh, that's nice.

I NEVER touched anything network related, I can admit that I'm totally ignorant about that file transfert via Ethernet then sounds like a fast and reliable solution, better than messing with W98SE and USB stick drivers.

Edited May 14, 2016 by CatPix

[Great Hierophant]

Here are a few guides to help someone get started with networking :

 

http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2013/10/windows-98-tips-1.html

 

http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2014/03/ibm-pcjr-upgrades.html

 

http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2015/02/windows-9x-and-cd-images.html

[EdwardK]

I've done similar with an old P2, and ran into the issue where games used pc clock to control speed of moving objects. Tetris was over so fast you couldn't get the piece to even move before you were stacked to a game over. However, I might have gotten lucky, but some of them have settings in the BIOS that can slow them down.

Other biggest issue I had was finding pata harddrives to go with the board. Then again, as long as you have something you can plug in to it, you should be ok. you'll just have to partition it down, DOS 7.whatever had a limit of 7 gig or something like that. can't quite remember. It'd be worth a look in my opinion. And honestly, I don't think it's a waste of time so long as you don't drop serious cash in to it and you have fun. Not to mention, there is always MoSlow if you're still running too fast. http://www.hpaa.com/moslo/

 

If you need an APG video card, I think i might still have one kicking around somewhere. If you're interested, I'll dig through the old stuff and ship one your way for either payback of shipping cost or a trade of anything interesting you're willing to send.

[CatPix]

Funny that you should name Tetris, as I read a page written by Vadim Gerasimov, who helped Alexey Pajitnov to develop Tetris : http://vadim.oversigma.com/Tetris.htm and he claim that his version written for DOS does NOT speed up. I guess you can download it and check it yourself

Edited May 14, 2016 by CatPix

[EdwardK]

The version I have sure enough does. Have it on a harddrive, copied over from an old floppy years ago, and juggled around ever since. I've got a zipped down version I could put up for y'all, but would that violate any forum rules i'm not familiar with yet?

[Osgeld]

really the only downside would be how the pentium and beyond systems are constructed. On a 8088,86,286,386,and 486 the cpu is tied direct pin for pin to the expansion bus, on a pentium they are not, they go though the northbridge

 

for just about damn near everything this is not a big deal and it runs fine, but there are some games, programs, and demos that are doing some really extra funky bitbanging to (most likely) video card that just wont

 

but that's very far and few between

[CatPix]

The version I have sure enough does. Have it on a harddrive, copied over from an old floppy years ago, and juggled around ever since. I've got a zipped down version I could put up for y'all, but would that violate any forum rules i'm not familiar with yet?

I'm certainly not saying you lie. This PC version probably never left the Soviet Union BITD.

[EdwardK]

Didn't figure you meant i was lying, but definitely figured that Vadim Gerasimov either wasn't talking about this version or was stretching the truth a bit. Wouldn't be the first time a Soviet made a claim about there technological superiority that wasn't founded. LOL

 

Anyhow, I went ahead and zipped down the file and am attaching it. It's huge everybody! a whole 24kb, 14kb zipped! Sorry if the inclusion of this file breaks any copyright law or anything, probably falls into the abandonware category by now, but who knows. If it causes any problems, feel free to smite me down, otherwise, here it is for everyone with a rig slow enough to run it.

 

 

EDIT: well, I just tested the file and it's actually running to proper speed. it's been residing on an old HDD for several years now. Apparently this isn't the one i was remembering from the last time i attempted to play tetris. Going to have to dig out the old floppies (if I even still have them) and see how many versions of this game I even have.

 

Either that or my brain is finally turning to mush. anyhow, file is still included.

Tetris3.zip

Edited May 15, 2016 by EdwardK

[CatPix]

Well that's Gerasimov's Tetris

Since he include the file to download from his site, it's rather easy to check this claim today anyway.... And you tested it yourself so heh. Just would be curious to know if you got that one around 2006 (as the zipped file bear this date) or back in the earl 90's...

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I have a similar setup for playing all the old classics myself. I'm actually using an old AMD K6 200mhz CPU on mine though. I have an easy method of clocking it down for older games like Wing Commander and will explain that in a bit...

 

The rest of the setup has 64mb of RAM, however, DOS 6.22 is only able to address 32mb of that. The PC reports 64mb, but only 32mb show up when you do a MEM command. Still 32mb with some of that setup as extended and expanded EMS is still WAY more than enough.

 

I have an older 120gb drive installed I believe and that would likely never get filled up.

 

Have an old SB 16 installed for digital

 

LAPC-1 installed for MT-32 / Gen Midi music

 

And all the retro ports of the era in place. The most difficult task was finding an old AT keyboard as the motherboard still uses the larger DIN for keyboard and only a single PS2 port for a mouse.

[EdwardK]

Well that's Gerasimov's Tetris

Since he include the file to download from his site, it's rather easy to check this claim today anyway.... And you tested it yourself so heh. Just would be curious to know if you got that one around 2006 (as the zipped file bear this date) or back in the earl 90's...

No telling. The dates on that harddrive are all over the place. If i ever find that disk I plan on checking to see if i'm remembering things correctly or not. Eitherway, if the OP needs any old software, I found my collection of Big Blue Disk. Some were pulled off of old HDDs, others were downloaded for the sake of completion. All in all I could have just been remembering wrong to begin with. Not above admiting i'm wrong.

[Nebulon]

So I'm digging through my massive collection of computers and junk. :-)

 

I stumble upon a P2 motherboard with Intel CPU (not sure of speed), 32 x 2 (64) MB of RAM, SoundBlaster Live! (LOVE THIS CARD) and a PCI video card with DVI/VGA and COMPOSITE! out. I believe the video card is an ATI RV6P.

 

I only need a case, hard drive, floppy drive and power supply. Assuming all of the components still work.

 

The board has two USB ports, LPT (the gold ole days!), TWO 9 pin SERIAL (YES!) and PS/2 connectors. The board even has THREE ISA slots, four PCI and a AGP (I think).

 

So the video card could probably be upgraded to AGP but I don't have one of those.

 

Anyway, I'm only interested in DOS games so I think this setup would scream with them. Doom would be about the highest-end game I would want to play.

 

I'm also thinking of buying a 386 and 486 for retro goodness too. But that is a separate topic. I believe P2 is still "retro" enough but with enough horsepower to drive many DOS games.

 

Keep in mind I use DOS Box on my modern PC. But I want *REAL* hardware too.

 

My questions are:

 

1) Worth the effort? Or would a P3 be better?

 

2) 64 MB seems plenty. Would you agree?

 

3) What would you do differently? Keeping in mind I'm trying to keep my purchases minimal.

 

4) Floppy drives are becoming more "collectible" (i.e., expensive). What do you recommend for modern floppy replacement?

 

5) Should I put Windows on there at all? Networking it might be nice. But, I don't care about browsing the internet with it. If so, what version of Windows? Windows 3.11 might be nice.

 

Thanks!

 

 

The P2 and P3 are almost identical, so no reason to put a P3 CPU in there.

 

And 64 MB or RAM is TONS OF MEMORY.

 

So you're good!

[Nebulon]

I was more thinking about transfer file reliability.

I wanted to transfer game files on an old rig, and I was stuck with files being 2Mo... heh, yeah, no floppy can do that. And I can't find my Zip // drive. And I couldn't find any software that allowed to split files and reuild them back with an EXE like you could do BITD. I wasn't thinking about file transfer speed but file transfert ease.

Here's a link to a DOS utility that will allow you to split files into smaller pieces and then re-join them again:

 

 

If you scroll down to the section called "PC Utilities:" you'll see two files (Frag and Unfrag). Frag breaks the file apart and Unfrag joins the files back together again.

[82-T/A]

There's going to be a lot of opinions, but it largely depends on what you want to play. There were a lot of games that were still "DOS" games that were sold well into 1999.

 

In my opinion, a Pentium 2 is totally overkill for anything pre-1992. But... for most games 1993+, a Pentium 2 is perfect. For 1983-1992, a good 386 DX would work. If you want to take it a step further, a Tandy 1000 is perfect for anything 1982-1986, and then 1987-1992 there-abouts could be a 386DX.

 

Anyway, I have a Pentium 2 that I use for DOS games. It's got Windows 98 SE installed, which I have configured to boot in DOS mode (modify MSDOS.SYS and change "bootGUI=0"). Mine is actually a Dual Pentium-II (233/MMX). Clearly, it never uses the second processor for anything; however, it's there, so...

 

The best Sound Blaster for you to use for DOS games is a Sound Blaster 16. You want one of the early ones, a LIVE is too new, it requires you to load drivers. The early Sound Blaster games required no drivers to be loaded. All you had to do was set the environment variables... like.. "SET BLASTER=A220 T3 D1 I7" (which meant address = 220, T3 don't know? DMA 1, and IRQ 7.

 

Anyway, if you want straight DOS and don't want to use Windows 98 SE, then DOS 5 (in my opinion) is the best OS. It has the least amount of "crap." You can also copy MEMMAKER from the newer DOS 6 and copy it to DOS 5.

[The Usotsuki]

I'm biased toward PC DOS 7, myself.

 

It's got most of the MS-DOS 6.2 stuff and I think it's a little bit leaner. And never had compatibility issues - the only possible ones would be over the names of the system files and that would have been an issue in the DOS 3 era too (even some OEM versions of MS-DOS used system files with IBM's names).

[Osgeld]

As a owner of a 386DX 25 until recently, yea a 386 will work on 1992 games, you wish it didnt though lol

 

Also an alternative to sound blasters are ESS audio drives, the 16 bit models are SB, SB pro and SB 16 compatible and work perfectly in dos. Since they dont carry the catch tag of SOUND BLASTER they should be cheaper as well

 

Version of MS / PC dos is a ford chevy debate, the extra crap that 6 + has doesnt have to be used or loaded (hell most of my machines just use whatever's on the windows 98 EBD cause Im lazy) and hard disk space in that type of OS is practically free, a old shitcan 20 gig would have been server grade even in 98's early life

[Tempest]

I use the following setup:

 

PCjr or 5150

486SX

Pentium (200MHz)

Pentium III (1GHz)

 

This covers just about all the time periods and works well. I've run into one or two things that were too slow on the 486 but too fast on the Pentium 200 (they really needed a 90 or 120) but not enough to worry about.

[cbmeeks]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Sorry for the delay.

 

OK, I just bought two Sound Blaster 16 cards. One is a CT2230 and the other is the newer CT4170. Got the 4170 for $4.

 

Anyway, I plan on putting the 4170 in the P2. I want to build a 486 from which I will use the CT2230.

 

I already have a Tandy 1000 EX and plan on getting a 5150 this year. So I will have the gamut of DOS machines. :-)

[David Baldwin]

I have two old Pentiums one is a P75 Mhz 32mb from 1995 and two is a P166 MMX 128 mb from 1995

 

both have MS Dos 6.22 and Windows 95a thay are great for

 

Lan IPX dos games under Windows you don't need mutch to play lan games.

Edited August 25, 2016 by David Baldwin

[boxpressed]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Sorry for the delay.

 

OK, I just bought two Sound Blaster 16 cards. One is a CT2230 and the other is the newer CT4170. Got the 4170 for $4.

 

Anyway, I plan on putting the 4170 in the P2. I want to build a 486 from which I will use the CT2230.

 

I already have a Tandy 1000 EX and plan on getting a 5150 this year. So I will have the gamut of DOS machines. :-)

CT2230 is one of the best SB16 models. Non-PNP, real OPL3, no hanging note bug. Now just find a Roland or Yamaha daughterboard for GM, and you're set for sound for later DOS games. For earlier DOS games, you want a SB Pro (CT1600). The SB16 is not backward compatible with the SB Pro.