Mclaneinc Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) I'm trying to organise the lend of a collection so I can archive it, now the person who its from does not know me directly but his friend is a very long term friend and what is in both their collections basically came via me and other people I knew at the time. Now the guy is 60+ now and not well, all the stuff is up in his attic and been there for many years. He's not even sure it works but when his friend explained who I was and how long he's known me plus the contacts that kept him in software all those years I kind of expected he would be ok about the archive but he wants me to drive nearing 200miles round trip and archive all the disks at his house. I explained to my friend that all the tools are on my PC, I don't have a lap top and depending on the size of the collection it could take a while. I also explained he would get a digital copy of what I can archive so if his disks die they are not gone 100%. Sadly still not enough to agree the lend. The point here is that on the C64 pretty much 95% of stuff got cracked and archived, spreading was a much more done item and therefore things like music disks that are being looked for on AtariAge are not the same rare beasts on the C64 because people didn't have the same ideals about the software. I'd do anything to have my collection back, I had pretty much anything that got cracked or passed around because of the people I dealt with, I would have loved to have shared that but sadly my disks were destroyed after my mother died ad there was nothing I could do. So when I find someone who has put their collection up in the loft for years on end with almost no chance of it being used again I kind of hoped he would have been pleased to see it being looked after and he himself get a digital collection, but no... Its the one thing I see in the Atari community which saddens me a little, so much stuff missing and possibly out there in a loft etc but no one wants to let a person with known credit do an archive of it, they would rather have a bit of distrust and see it rot.. Its sad because I know others would LOVE to see any little finds but if you look at http://www.gamesthatwerent.com/links/ You will see no Atari 8 bit stuff even though Frank Gasking would love to find it compared to the 'found' gems on other machines.. Sorry, being miserable Edited May 22, 2016 by Mclaneinc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 It's even worse in the Apple II community. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) sadly, i can see his point. there's no right to expect people to be altruistic, and in the modern climate, altruists end up getting shat upon. and unfortunately, in making him aware of how important this stuff is - you've now shown your hand. you've choices 1] bite down hard - and do the 200-mile trip (with your PC) and archive everything at his place, or 2] bite down harder - and make him an offer he can't refuse to buy the lot off him 3] bite down hardest - see what he wants for the lot - and ask around here if anyone is willing to invest - i'd be willing to contribute - after all - if you can persuade him to sell there's likely some useful hardware and software, yes? Edited May 22, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 It's even worse in the Apple II community. Really? WOW.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 sadly, i can see his point. there's no right to expect people to be altruistic, and in the modern climate, altruists end up getting shat upon. and unfortunately, in making him aware of how important this stuff is - you've now shown your hand. you've choices 1] bite down hard - and do the 200-mile trip (with your PC) and archive everything at his place, or 2] bite down harder - and make him an offer he can't refuse to buy the lot off him 3] bite down hardest - see what he wants for the lot - and ask around here if anyone is willing to invest - i'd be willing to contribute - after all - if you can persuade him to sell there's likely some useful hardware and software, yes? And there's the issue, form limited 2nd party discussions he does not want to sell, does not want t use and does not care if its all gone to hell? Cash offers are beyond me anyhow, sitting at his house knowing its going to go well beyond a day complicates so I guess its time to call it a day. Like I say, he's never met me but he does know of me from those days, he knows it was me who passed on what he and my friend got so I'm not some grey alien from outer space. His mate and him even worked together for 10's of years and are good mates but never mind. I can't force him and the intention was to help him with a digital copy and his gear back after I'd done.. Sigh... Oh well... Just trying to keep stuff flowing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNameOfTheGame Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Well, if you went and it was going to take more than 1 day, could you just prioritize the rarest disks to archive or are there just too many? That's a long trip, but could be worth it. I took a 2 day trip to get my Hades060 computer. No way I was going to risk shipping on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) If the collection is as big as he says then its a pretty big task just sorting let alone doing The trip I wanted to spread in to two parts if the disk quantities needed it, just wanted to load up, get home and do it all at leisure while keeping the guy informed and then a return. Also due to money I needed a gap between going and returning the disks to allow the cash to build up (things are really tight here). Paul.. PS...Just so people realise, there's a smiley at the end of the thread name just to point out its a wee joke and not arrogance... Edited May 22, 2016 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accousticguitar Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Just say "No problem, I can do that. It's okay for me to sleep on your couch until I'm done, right?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_x Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I know the feeling on Atari vs c64 stuff... Seems like everything is out there for c64.... As far as the guy goes - maybe he has a booze or weed weakness? Prob not weed at his age - but maybe booze? Some things speak to people more than money does... Would love to see what he has regardless if this happens..... There used to be so many hack/phreak apps for Atari and even bbs software that is nowhere to be found - and like you say I know all of it is sitting on disks somewhere just waiting for bit rot to soon take it forever... Which is why I've gotten into the search and archive initiative too... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Oh, it's f'n terrible in the Apple ][ community. Sure, a lot of the popular games got cracked and shared on BBSes, but a lot of stuff was lost to the sands of time because nobody cared. There's a lot of circlejerking among the Apple ][ fans who are *hardware* enthusiasts, as opposed to people like me who were just plain lusers. You wouldn't *believe* the number of programs that were near complete unobtanium until 4am started cracking them and uploading them to archive.org...and a decent number of those were my childhood. Hell, there's STILL programs out there I haven't seen hide nor hair of in close to 30 years, that have never been uploaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I'd just archive the stuff which is rare. The rest I'd give him links to Atarimania for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo-Rio Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I know the feeling on Atari vs c64 stuff... Seems like everything is out there for c64.... Only because people such a myself busted themselves trying to archive as much as possible. With more people on the case, even a large library like the 64's has been well preserved... although there are still things out there which we can't get due to the unobtanium status of some of it, or because some muppet on ebay is looking to overcharge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 many times I don't even get a thanks, so I just don't bother uploading much anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo-Rio Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 many times I don't even get a thanks, so I just don't bother uploading much anymore. It's thankless work. We only doing to satisfy our retrogaming bug, and because history is worth preserving. I must have spent a bucketload on buying titles to archive over the years, but fortunately the C64 scene has a lot to show for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ely Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) To me the guy is being unreasonable. If it's been in his loft that long he can't be that precious about it! Edited May 23, 2016 by Ely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 To me the guy is being unreasonable. If it's been in his loft that long he can't be that precious about it! you're generalising a bit, there. who says he doesn't care? perhaps it's in his loft to maintain condition and hence sale value later on? perhaps he has intent to pass it on to a relative when he's gone? either way, he may not want to risk letting it out of his sight - which IS understandable. people should stop and think about this. if he lets it out of his sight it could get lost or damaged - fire, flood, pestillence, plague...the usual. this is then outside of his control and it's gone for good. whereas, if he ensures it doesn't leave his property, then the risk of loss/damage is reduced significantly. plus, if he has house/contents insurance, and this collection is worth anything - what is it worth if there's a total loss outside of his own four walls? come on, cut the guy some slack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Just to add to some points made here, YES, archiving is a thankless task and even more annoying when you get people who are looking for stuff that offer zero thanks for the effort. I like Holmes (Aaron) were in contact many many years ago when he was putting his first disk out and I sent him loads of stuff over to New Zealand because I didn't have the ability to archive it at the time so it would 'get out there', I also sent him DVD's of what I had left of my collection to add to the pile because I didn't have time to sort it but I was keen for it to spread about. I've spent my years trying to get stuff out there and those who were on comp.sys.atari8bit might remember me getting the Factor Five guys to release things like Spelunker and another Lucas title with their proper loading screens that had been ripped. I just love to see the masses get it before those disks rot for good. As for the guy, god knows what his real reasons are, I'd love to buy it off him if I had the cash but the guy simply does not want to sell, but its the notion that its safer up in his loft when he's got no plans to ever look at it again. I've sent various messages back to try and grease the palms but its a shame, knowing that much of what I had will be in that collection was what spurred me on as I was a massive collector at the time. Its so annoying that you have communities like the Apple one that would also rather see stuff gone forever rather than spread it to be archived, you see I'm a firm believer of not keeping software in a box untouched forever IF its a super rare item, I'd rather it was out there getting the love it deserves, disks rot and so do boxes.. My only not spread items are those that are still on sale or requested not to be spread, the rest should be out there... As said already, a thankless task but hell, you have to keep trying Paul. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 you're generalising a bit, there. who says he doesn't care? perhaps it's in his loft to maintain condition and hence sale value later on? perhaps he has intent to pass it on to a relative when he's gone? either way, he may not want to risk letting it out of his sight - which IS understandable. people should stop and think about this. if he lets it out of his sight it could get lost or damaged - fire, flood, pestillence, plague...the usual. this is then outside of his control and it's gone for good. whereas, if he ensures it doesn't leave his property, then the risk of loss/damage is reduced significantly. plus, if he has house/contents insurance, and this collection is worth anything - what is it worth if there's a total loss outside of his own four walls? come on, cut the guy some slack Obviously I respect that but I know from the man himself that he just wants to keep it up there or at worst I sit and do it by hand there and that is where both of us run in to problems, I'm hoping to get him to trust me a little more but at the end of the day I have to respect his ideals no matter what I feel about them. Its his gear and his rights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 My $.02... Just to clarify... you have reason to believe that the collection in size and scope is worth the effort? Do you have any pictures or (approximate) counts of the disks? If you made the trip with a laptop, how would you archive it without an Atari and probably some specialized hardware? Would there be sufficient time if you did it there? I've done a couple of these archiving jobs, and it really takes a lot of time. Has the actual owner said why he won't lend? Sounds like he's concerned that he won't get it back. Agree to (and adhere to) a specific time frame and post a "bond" against loss or damage? Satisfy each of his objections, one-by-one. At the end of the day, it will become apparent if he has genuine reasons, or he just doesn't want to do it. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Sadly Larry there's a lot of 'ifs' here, he says he has his old collection that is "large" but he's unsure if it works still which is understandable, he's ok about lending it but only on his premises and as I'd need to bring my PC and own hardware over it makes it all much more hard (no lap top). Add the time scale which I've tried to impress which it seems he thinks is overly long yet has no understanding of how long it takes. As said, its his choice and there's no wish on my part to make him feel intimidated and that has been repeated to him and said if he's not keen then that's fine and we leave it there but I also said if he was keen that selling his hardware would be useful cash wise to him rather than let it die in the loft with pointers to Ebay for him. I don't know what way its going to finish but I'd love to archive his disks but not by disturbing a 60yr old bloke Paul... The point of the thread is more that there's stuff out there but some people would rather see it rot than be useful.....It affects many software communities.. Edited May 23, 2016 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I always like to look for the positive side of things.... What if you see this as a chance to visit a far off town and see some of the local sights? Take a few beers with you, sit in the local parks/beach/whatever kind of place it is and enjoy yourself there? While not doing that, be archiving some of his disks. Seriously though, don't do them all if he has a large amount. Also, can anyone else help you out with this task? Anyone got a laptop, live close enough and can alternate in archiving while the other is out drinking beers in the park? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I agree with snicklin and would just do it if I were you. I think you don't really have much to lose and going the distance for a mini-trip and Atari in the end is definitely worth it. What did you do in LAN party networking days when you had to lug the computer around? You don't want it to rot? Well then get to moving, we don't have all day! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNameOfTheGame Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Might take this in stages. First stage could be a trip there (with a helper if able to) just to document the collection to get a list of all the software there. That would give you time to look over the list at your leisure after you were back at home base. Then next when you had sufficient funds again you could go and archive the software you decided needed it the most. Also, maybe if you met him in person you could develop a better trust relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ely Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Just out of curiosity whereabouts is he based in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Out past Basingstoke.... You are Bedford, you didn't know a Neale AKA Big Mac did you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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