Nintendo, What Went Wrong

[MotoRacer]

Personally i played most of the consoles from Atari to the latest generation

 

I know very few people that attacked N64 or GC except for Nintendo poor marketing in the West

 

Believe a few people were angry about cart prices on the N64 which usually added 10 dollars to games and the delay of the system from 95 to 96, which helped Sony get a larger lead

 

GC was pretty solid, just wasn't marketed property and release late with the Xbox

 

Wii on the other hand..... People attack the controllers especially the remote which didn't feel right, and the fact every game had different control schemes

Then they kinda let the system die for a year at the end, after if launched so many good games.

 

WiiU never played it, was turn off by the controller since i rather play seeing my 40+ inch TV then seeing my controller in front of my face

 

I could have lived with all of Nintendo's weird controller decisions if they just had more third party support. I feel like that, more than anything, is what has killed off any love for their hardware from me as of late. Heck, even their 1st party support in the last couple years has been depressing. It's like THEY don't even care anymore.

 

You know it's sad when you're wishing for the days of GC-like 3rd party support...

[Mord]

 

I don't think my text is carrying over how I'm talking. I wasn't upset. I meant the "you're killing me" part like I was laughing when saying that (hence why I said Jeebus instead of Jesus). Sorry, forums sometimes don't carry over tone...

 

Yeah, text does that. Emoticons can often help with conveying the mood though.

[Mord]

You know it's sad when you're wishing for the days of GC-like 3rd party support...

 

This here, in the end, is probably the biggest reason Nintendo is doing poorly overall, and the source of why many of their consoles just kind of limp along with the others - resting their weight entirely on their first party lineup. Nintendo's lucky that their 1st party franchises are, overall, extremely well done. (most of the time.)

 

The last time they had strong 3rd party support was with the NES (And the SNES to a point). Back in the days when they roped up most 3rd parties into exclusive contracts and had enough clout to make them sign up for it.

 

Then again they'd at least do a little better if they'd bring over more of their own stuff. How often do we hear about particular exclusives that only get a release in Japan despite the series having a cult following over here that would jump at the chance of a proper domestic port. And when they DO bring it over here, they do it in screwed up ways. (Digital only, etc)

[Andromeda Stardust]

The Gamecube's PowerPC CPU is clocked faster than the PS2's MIPS, but the specs I saw list it at 1.9 GFLOPS vs the PS2's 6.2 GFLOPS.

Or is the Wiki misleading?

 

 

Tons of people in this thread have voiced that the Game Cube had better graphical capabilities both in raw numbers and subjectively. I always remember watching my roommate play his PS2 games, and all of the textures and polygons seemed to suffer from the jaggies, clearly visible even with the softening effect of CRT screens. I always thought N64 games, despite being blurry at times, looked better than the horrible 240p jaggies on PS1, and the PS2 did little to quench that notion, which aside from some notable improvements in the resolution department thanks to higher polygon counts and using 480i, still had plenty of jaggy textures due to a complete lack of anti-alias.

 

When I first got my Game Cube, I couldn't believe how smooth everything was, nice anti-aliased borders, smooth textures. Some standouts for me were simulated light refraction (fire had actual heat ripples in Sunshine) and displaying literally hundreds of sprites onscreen (Paper Mario TTYD). And yes, I've seen bump mapping in Game Cube games first hand, though I'd imagine the effects were quite expensive from a processing perspective, hence why they were used sparingly. The bonus stages in Sunshine used very obvious bump mapping on the sand blocks.

 

Wii was basically an overclocked Game Cube and tons of games had bump mapping everywhere, including nearly every texture in Mario Galaxy. I just wish more games used the Classic Controller instead of arbitrarily assigning "Waggle" to some function instead of a button. Spin Jumps in Mario Galaxy come to mind. Aside from using the Wiimote pointer for collecting star bits (and a few tilt-based minigames), everything could have been mapped to the Classic Controller. And pointing could be mapped to right analog in a pinch.

 

Also the subjective improvements of Game Cube over PS2 can be carried over into the Wii-U versus PS3 department despite being separated by an entire generation. It has a nice edge over the PS3 and 360, and as for Sony/MS current consoles, they have all but conceded to the PC by admitting they can't keep up, and so have both resorted to the incremental upgrade path.

 

And I personally don't care that Wii-U is "last gen", or if the NX ultimately competes with older Xbone/PS4 and not their mid-generation replacements. Maybe I should care, but I don't. The games are still fun. Wii-U's HD is gorgeous, and I firmly believe that with the HD facelift the 360, PS3, and Wii-U trio of consoles have provided, console gaming finally started to look "great". Heck, even some Wii games (Mario Galaxy 1 & 2) looked great despite the lack of HD. There comes a point in time where more becomes less and less becomes more, so Nintendo's minimalist approach with respect to hardware may not be far off, if they can cut out the "controller gimmicks." (Even the NES launch relied on such a Gimmick, ROB, but they stil bundled a pair of standard controllers with the system. In the end, ROB became a total write-off). But who am I to judge? I'm still rocking out on Atari, NES, Genesis, Turbografx 25-30 years after the fact...

[Atariboy]

The last time they had strong 3rd party support was with the NES (And the SNES to a point).

 

GameCube really wasn't too bad, either.

 

Some very nice 3rd party exclusives appeared for it, with several so well received that they eventually migrated elsewhere to tap into larger markets. And most PS2 titles that saw a Xbox port also appeared on the GameCube during the height of the generation, minus GTA for an obvious one. And then there's the games that otherwise would've been a PS2 exclusive had there not been a GCN option, which is also a fairly decent sized list with some decent games.

 

It seemed to start to start to decline a bit earlier than the Xbox with support already waning by 2004, but for a while it was being heavily supported. There were lots of 3rd party console releases that didn't appear on the GCN of course, but they largely were PS2 exclusives due to Sony's dominance that led to there being several PS2's out there for every GameCube and Xbox and they mostly came out of Japanese studios rather than western companies.

 

But if the Xbox got a PS2 conversion, chances usually were good that the GCN did, too.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Atariboy

[HoshiChiri]

Nintendo slowed with the N64 by not modernizing with the rest of the gaming world (and screwing over sony, inadvertently creating a serious rival). They recovered well with the Wii by deciding to basically pull out of the Top Console race, and just make something that's fun for everyone- the fantastic ad campaign helped a lot too. They then proceeded to flush that with a confusing new system that was advertised poorly, costing them most of their new audience. Why there was never a commercial showing someone moving a Wii U game off the TV and onto the gamepad is beyond me- that's a selling point for a family sharing a TV!

 

And now, rather than make that commercial and show us why the Wii U is awesome... they're flushing it for a new system they won't even explain to us yet. I'm not sure they're even thinking anymore.

 

There is/has been a big issue with third party content too. Not just because they have none- they could eek along on the power of the their alone for awhile. It's that they aren't even using their first party lineup well! The first proper Starfox since N64 is a dud, Metroid's been MIA since Gamecube, and how do you not get a Zelda game on your new system for over 3 years?! The first party lineup is the one thing you can count on people wanting, and we aren't getting it!

 

I'm hoping the NX turns out to be something amazing, but considering how tight they're playing it I doubt they even know what it is yet. Honestly, they might be better off with a PSTV-sized box that has access to the virtual console. Let everybody download their retro favs and rake it in. (bonus points if the unit's a portable.)

[bretthorror]

The Wii did have a great library, it's insane that people act like it didn't, and it's so commonly stated. While it did mostly come when the Wii's fad had died, it just proves that people aren't gonna wait around for Nintendo like they will for Sony or Microsoft. That's why I ultimately think they're doomed. I can't think of a way to get the common 15 year old male COD gamer to the Nintendo side. Even if Nintendo had GTA, COD, etc, what is it going to matter when that person is ultimately already going to own an equally, if not, more powerful console to begin with, so unless they want Mario or Zelda, why are they going to buy it? To this day, I still think if not for motion controls, the Wii would have been a total failure, too.

 

Plus, we still are assuming they're gonna get their shit together with a decent online system and a normal headset for use. I'm sure there are reasons for it, but the way Nintendo wastes its IPs is ridiculous. They definitely did it right on the Wii and that's why the library is as strong as it is. In four years they haven't done anything in comparison for the Wii U. If they're actively making games for the NX to boost it, that's dirty, but fine. Problem is who can really say for sure? I do have faith in the NX as a Nintendo fan because a portable/home console hybrid won't split the software like it is with the 3DS and Wii U, so game quantity shouldn't be a problem. If I could play 3DS games on my Wii U, it'd give my Wii U a huge boost. As a fan who buys Nintendo consoles to play Nintendo IPs (because there'd be absolutely zero reason not to), I expect all Nintendo IPs should have a game released. The Wii was great for that, sans a Star Fox game.

[TPA5]

Every few months I stumble across a forum post or gaming article bemoaning Nintendo's future, and prophesying it's impending demise. I remember people making the case back in the N64 days that Nintendo would barely last another year. Yet still, here we are in 2016 and Nintendo remains. Now I am not an analyst or expert, but even with their missteps they've stuck around this long. Unless there is some monumental cock-up with the NX, I imagine they'll be around for the foreseeable future as well.

[BillyHW]

I wonder why Nintendo just doesn't sell itself or merge with MS or Sony. It seems to me that the market value of the shares would skyrocket if that were to happen.

[Austin]

I wonder why Nintendo just doesn't sell itself or merge with MS or Sony. It seems to me that the market value of the shares would skyrocket if that were to happen.

 

Because Nintendo still has a shitload of money. They don't need to merge with anyone else to survive.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

It seemed to start to start to decline a bit earlier than the Xbox with support already waning by 2004, but for a while it was being heavily supported.

I bought my first Game Cube in 2004 when it was $100. Great system and I bought tons of awesome games for $20 under the Player's Choice banner.

[BillyHW]

Because Nintendo still has a shitload of money. They don't need to merge with anyone else to survive.

Yeah but the board of directors has a fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder value and at least consider it. The market value of Nintensony is much greater than the sum of the market values of Nintendo and Sony separately. Just think how valuable Nintendo's first party IP assets would be in the hands of the dominant console market share leader.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

I think you need to actually play the Wii and you'll discover like I did that there are some great & unique titles for it!

 

https://youtu.be/c4cLi3iGy5w

Pretty much this. Nintendo might have stumbled a bit with the Wii U, but the Wii was the world's most successful console ever produced so they definitely haven't lost their touch. They're still the industry leader in dedicated handheld gaming systems as well, in spite of the 3DS not pulling in quite the same sales numbers as the wildly successful original DS; which was the best selling handheld gaming system of all time.

 

Given that Nintendo produced both the most successful home console and handheld ever made just one generation ago I have every confidence that they'll learn from the mistakes of this generation and really knock it out of the park with whatever they have planned for the next generation.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Yeah but the board of directors has a fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder value and at least consider it. The market value of Nintensony is much greater than the sum of the market values of Nintendo and Sony separately. Just think how valuable Nintendo's first party IP assets would be in the hands of the dominant console market share leader.

Sony don't have enough money left in their coffers to buy out Nintendo and their IP. I think recently Nintendo started buying back it's own stock to retain control of 51% of the company holdings to prevent a hostile takeover from Microsoft or someone else. Microsoft is likely the only company in the gaming business with deep enough pockets to buy Nintendo out. And the likes of Google or Apple probably wouldn't know how to properly use the assets much less have interest in entering the gaming market. If they did, we would be gaming on them by now, iOS and Android notwithstanding.

[enoofu]

I doubt a merge will happen as basically all the Japanese based Video game developers/publishers except for Nintendo don't have cash on hand

 

MS and Nintendo merge will never happen do to different cultures, and the only way it may work is if MS spins off Xbox and that is merge into Nintendo of America

The only reason that may work is because Xbox can't Penetrate Asia well and Nintendo having trouble penetrating the West, but that move may not be worth it do to cost of the merge

[Flojomojo]

Every few months I stumble across a forum post or gaming article bemoaning Nintendo's future, and prophesying it's impending demise. I remember people making the case back in the N64 days that Nintendo would barely last another year. Yet still, here we are in 2016 and Nintendo remains. Now I am not an analyst or expert, but even with their missteps they've stuck around this long. Unless there is some monumental cock-up with the NX, I imagine they'll be around for the foreseeable future as well.

 

It would be really easy for someone to make a Nintendo version of The Macalope. Just gather up all the stupid advice given to Nintendo over the years and rebut it all in a humorous way.

 

Yeah but the board of directors has a fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder value and at least consider it. The market value of Nintensony is much greater than the sum of the market values of Nintendo and Sony separately. Just think how valuable Nintendo's first party IP assets would be in the hands of the dominant console market share leader.

 

 

What, like Activision, or "Atari?" I hope that never happens. I'd rather see Nintendo close up shop than to sacrifice its trademark quality and polish in pursuit of the highest sales. They don't need to be #1 to be profitable. See the above link for lots of punditry about Apple, who has been "near death" for 30 years according to the people who would have them sell their seed corn for short term gain.

[BillyHW]

I still think Nintendo merging with Sony is better than having them turn into Sega. Sega should have sold themselves when they had the chance.

[Austin]

I still think Nintendo merging with Sony is better than having them turn into Sega. Sega should have sold themselves when they had the chance.

 

They did sell themselves. They were bought up by Sammy, who they are still owned by.

[atarilovesyou]

 

They did sell themselves. They were bought up by Sammy, who they are still owned by.

 

...is that the "American Sammy" company?

 

SHIT...if so, who would have thought that the Mighty Sega would have been bought out by the company that brought us....AMAGON

[Andromeda Stardust]

I still think Nintendo merging with Sony is better than having them turn into Sega. Sega should have sold themselves when they had the chance.

Imagine if Sega had sold/merged with Nintendo in 2001 rather than gone 3rd party. The Game Cube would have gained much more than just Sonic Adventure DX and a handful of other games. They would have gained all of those Sega fanboys who ultimately flocked to Sony instead. Game Cube may not have sold as many consoles as Sony PS2 but they would sure as heck have beaten the Xbox and gained more 3rd party support.

[Austin]

 

...is that the "American Sammy" company?

 

SHIT...if so, who would have thought that the Mighty Sega would have been bought out by the company that brought us....AMAGON

 

LOL, true. To be fair, Sammy was a much bigger name in Japan and apparently had a pretty healthy arcade business (novelty and pachinko arcade games, I believe). The merger made sense because Sega still had a large foothold in the Japanese arcade scene as well, unlike its console market competitors.

[the antithesis]

 

I love Nintendo

I think the downfall started with the GameCube, In Mags at the time, I only see AAA Titles for the PS2/Xbox..I was thinking I wonder why is that, Does Nintendo don't like Big Games on there System

Same on the Wii/Wii U

No AAA Titles on it, Well some, But not like the PS3/Ps4/360/One

 

You can get AAA titles on Gamecube. Just take some nice poo, wait for it to start turning grey and then put it on top of your Gamecube.

 

The problem here isn't Nintendo but with that so-called AAA market you mentioned where they went from males aged 16-30 being the people most likely to purchase a video game to being the only people likely to purchase a video game. This laser focused the market and eliminated a large percentage of the possible consumers out there. Have a vagina? Video games simply are not for you. Younger than twelve or older than 35? Video games are not for you. It's the same kind of focused marketing that brought us all those Fast and Furious movies.

 

In a more robust market, Call of Duty would be a B title at best. This is what happened to Nintendo. A large electronic conglomerate that could give a fig about video games as an artistic medium or as a business and found out how to maximize their profit in a short-sighted move that shrank the audience so that what should have been a game with niche appeal became the biggest tent pole franchise.

[cimerians]

What happened is people defected to Sega and Playstation in the 90's. In 1997 I was 27 years old. I wanted Parasite Eve, Resident Evil, Diablo, Warcraft and Half-Life. I didn't want Mario anymore. The nostalgia wasn't there yet. It would take another decade or so. Nintendo knew adults moved on by the late 90's......and tried things like bringing Resident Evil 4 to the Gamecube but by then Microsoft released a console called the Xbox and changed things for good. Stick a fork in it.

 

All I know is they should just make games people WANT to play by looking at feedback. Its easier more than ever to do this, be more friendly to your fans and stop chasing people on youtube for an extra 5 bucks a month. As far as older games coming back I was really pissed at the Starfox release. Who asked for that? Who wanted those features? Paper Mario, another example. What fans on earth wanted these changes? Where's my F-Zero game? my Advance Wars????

 

[Austin]

All I know is they should just make games people WANT to play by looking at feedback. Its easier more than ever to do this, be more friendly to your fans and stop chasing people on youtube for an extra 5 bucks a month. As far as older games coming back I was really pissed at the Starfox release. Who asked for that? Who wanted those features? Paper Mario, another example. What fans on earth wanted these changes? Where's my F-Zero game? my Advance Wars????

 

I totally agree. When it comes to their classic franchises, all Nintendo needs to do is give what the fans want. New twists aren't bad at all, until they consist of ass-backwards control setups that are forced upon the player with no alternative. I passed on Star Fox for that very reason alone (seriously, how difficult was it to implement a traditional control scheme that was optional?). It worked beautifully for Punch-Out on the Wii and that was one of the best examples of bringing an old franchise back, staying entirely true to the source material, while still feeling fresh at the same time.

 

You know, maybe this actually isn't a surefire win in this day and age based on some of the reviews claiming Star Fox was still "too oldschool" and was "too 'short' for a $60 game". However, based on how much people also complained about the controls, I think much of the other critiques would have been levied or glossed over if Nintendo simply made it play just like the early entries in the series and let the game shine naturally that way. All I can say is, I would have bought it in a second if it didn't involve me uncomfortably wobbling a controller around and taking my eyes off the big-ass TV that's right in front of me.

[Flojomojo]

What happened is people defected to Sega and Playstation in the 90's. In 1997 I was 27 years old. I wanted Parasite Eve, Resident Evil, Diablo, Warcraft and Half-Life. I didn't want Mario anymore. The nostalgia wasn't there yet. It would take another decade or so. Nintendo knew adults moved on by the late 90's......and tried things like bringing Resident Evil 4 to the Gamecube but by then Microsoft released a console called the Xbox and changed things for good. Stick a fork in it.

 

LOL, play a little GameDevStory, will you? "Your fanbase is aging" is just one statistic. You are being replaced by the latest generation of kids. It's not about you.

 

Every time someone makes a thread about "Nintendo is dying," several somebodies feel the need to generalize their own personal experiences and opinions to the rest of the world.

 

What YOU like about Nintendo or Sony or Atari isn't necessarily the same thing that is driving business success or artistic choices.