Atari ST Newbie - need advice

[Neo-Rio]

I'm new to the Atari ST line of computers, but I don't know too much about them.

 

I recently picked up a used 520STfm along with a monitor. The case of the ST was so yellow that it's almost brown.

When I powered it on the for the first time, the screen went white and the disk drive made a few noises searching for a disk. After a while I got a desktop.

Without a mouse or any disk, I can't do anything with the computer at the moment it seems.

Good news is that it doesn't seem broken so far.

 

So what advice would you give a newbie to the machine? I want to do it up and make it usable for gameplaying and whatever else.

Does the case respond well to retrobrite? Are the keys easy to clean up? (if they are anything like the Atari XE keyboards?)

 

What are my options to upgrade the computer?

From what I understand, there are disk drive replacements and RAM upgrades up to 4MB, but which are the best?

Is the 520STfm missing anything the 1040STfm is?

...and I'm clearly going to need a mouse. I think Best electronics has me covered there.

[Zogging Hell]

You can use 'alternate' + the arrow keys to move the cursor round in a fix. The 520 lacks 512k of memory compared to the 1040 (so it has 512k, the 1040 has 1024k/ 1mb). Exxos on here is probably the best man to get a ram upgrade from.

 

Games won't necessarily need the mouse, just put the disk in the drive immediately after turning on the ST and it should load the game automatically. You can then use a joystick if you have one.

[+Sauron]

One thing to note - the long wait to get to the desktop is normal if you don't have a disk in the floppy drive. Just inserting a blank floppy disk before booting will bring up the desktop much faster.

[Neo-Rio]

Thanks for the tips. How about upgrading the TOS in the STfm? What is the latest version you can install into one, and can I burn my own eeproms?

[exxosuk]

All the current TOS options are on my page.

 

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/index.htm

[Zogging Hell]

TOS 2.06 needs an adaptor, 1.04 is the last straight swap for the STFM. Honestly I would say upgrading TOS is only worth doing if you want to use 'serious' apps, hard disk adapted games, or hard disks generally on the ST. For the latter 1.04 will probably be fine and the easier option to install. TOS 2.06 is much nicer for serious work, but has issues with quite a few games (unless they happen to have been patched).

 

If you primarly want to play disk games (originals), I wouldn't bother upgrading, as the earlier TOS versions are generally just fine for that (possibly slightly better depending on the game as some of the earlier stuff won't work on 1.04 or 2.06 - patched versions aside) - you would be better off getting a 1mb or more upgrade.

 

TOS 1.0 is the only one I would swap out really, as it has quite a few bugs (the worst relating to hard disks). TOS 1.02 can be software patched to run almost as as well as 1.04 (if you don't mind loosing a few kb of memory to the patch programs). If you have 1.02 - Fatspeed or BigDOS sorts out the hard disk access speed problems, Maccel (primarily a mouse accelerator mainly) allows you to do the keyboard reset like 1.04, and Pinhead speeds up program loading.

[+Sauron]

Like Zogging Hell said, upgrading the RAM is much more of a priority than upgrading TOS. I'd suggest a 4MB RAM upgrade if you decide to do anything more than just playing games. Although there are some compatibility issues with RAM sizes larger than 2MB with some games, there was a utility I used to use that fixed that for pretty much everything (don't recall the name ATM). Likewise, most game patches that exist out there now take that into account, so it shouldn't be a big deal either way.

[exxosuk]

Running games from floppy , then 1MB should be the right amount. Though if you want to run games from hard drive, then you will need more RAM.

[atarifanboi]

For me, the first thing I like to do is a full teardown, that way you can document what is fitted, what version and year of motherboard you have, what's socketed, what's not etc, is there a blitter? That way you can make sure any upgrades will work with your machine.

 

Also gives you a chance to clean out the years worth of crud and fluff that's acumulated!!

[Neo-Rio]

For me, the first thing I like to do is a full teardown, that way you can document what is fitted, what version and year of motherboard you have, what's socketed, what's not etc, is there a blitter? That way you can make sure any upgrades will work with your machine.

 

Also gives you a chance to clean out the years worth of crud and fluff that's acumulated!!

 

Yes, well this is priority number one!

 

Attached is a picture to see just how discoloured this ST has become. In fact, I daresay that it's not gone yellow or brown, but positively gone a shade of Pantone 448C, a.k.a the ugliest colour in the colour spectrum! Compare that to the XEGS keyboard I have which is still looking good.

 

 

The case is going to get retrobrited (assuming this does not bleach the case), and the keyboard is probably going to get an overhaul - starting with cleaning up and retrobriting the keys, and possibly getting the mylar replaced and given best touch key rubbers. Having overhauled an XE keyboard before, this should be relatively easy.

 

Will check out the motherboard version and what's in the unit. I don't think it's ever been opened before, so it's likely a standard PAL 540STFM as you would find out of the box.

Upon boot the Desktop Info doesn't tell me which version of TOS it is, but the Atari logo is black (which appears to mean something)

 

A question about hard/flash drives:

I notice that the Lotharek Ultrasatan gets a few mentions. Do most games work on this device, given that it appears as a hard drive? I'll likely be padding out the flash cards with disk images off the net, but I would still like to keep the floppy drive intact in case the odd original comes my way.

 

Also there's some add on Language disk for the TOS which I don't have, I believe.

Looks like I should upgrade the TOS to 1.04 anyway.

 

Now the decision is whether I internally mount RAM or use an add-on board to go to 4MB, although with 4MB it seems that I need to drill a switch in the case to switch it between 4MB and 1MB for compatibility.

[Zogging Hell]

The desktop info is actually cryptically informative for TOS. From memory a date of 1985 is TOS 1.0, 1987 for TOS 1.02, 1989 for 1.04 and 1991 for 2.06 (the last two I'm guessing a bit). TOS 2.06 is pretty obviously different, with lots of extra options.

 

The language disk is mainly garbage, the worst basic version for the ST (possibly ever), and some other programs you don't need to use in 2016. The only useful thing on there is the control panel. It's an older version (it was replaced by the more memory hungry X Control), but does allow you to change a few useful settings, like turning off the bloody annoying keyclicks.

 

Games will work off the hard disk if they supported it originally (not many did sadly, mainly strategy games and flight sims) or if there has been a patched version done by one of the clever people out there who do these things.

[Neo-Rio]

The desktop info is actually cryptically informative for TOS. From memory a date of 1985 is TOS 1.0, 1987 for TOS 1.02, 1989 for 1.04 and 1991 for 2.06 (the last two I'm guessing a bit)

 

I must have 1.02 then, as it reads 1986,1987 for me.

 

As for hard disk support... roughly what percentage of games have been modified for Hard drive usage? ...or is gaming largely a disk based, or disk drive SD card emulated based pursuit?

[+Sauron]

 

I must have 1.02 then, as it reads 1986,1987 for me.

 

As for hard disk support... roughly what percentage of games have been modified for Hard drive usage? ...or is gaming largely a disk based, or disk drive SD card emulated based pursuit?

'

Hard to give a percentage for games that were originally meant to run from HD. A relatively easy way to check is to try to boot the ST with the game disk in the drive. If it boots to GEM instead of to the game, then it can probably run from the HD. However, this rule doesn't apply to all cases, and there are certain publishers (such as Sierra) who generally made all of their games HD installable. Best thing to do is to look around the internet for games that have been patched to run from HD. http://dbug.kicks-ass.net/ is a good place to start.

[atarifanboi]

If you have any desire to boot from disk, then you'll want 2.06, but you can always check out Exxos' web store as I know he's got some TOS switcher kits that will give you options. You may also want to check out the Cosmo Ex, though there are none available until September.

[Neo-Rio]

Do all floppy disk based games have to be loaded from the built in drive A? I ask because if I can get an SD floppy drive emulator plugged in as a second drive, I get to keep by internal drive without having to mod the Atari out too much and still play all the games from the second drive.

 

Will definitely look into RAM upgrades and the TOS switcher kits in the meantime.

[Zogging Hell]

Most unaltered games will want to boot from drive A, which stems from the most popular set up back in the day when most people had one floppy drive and 512k of memory. Often games would not even check to see if disk B was even connected, which was annoying when you had a second disk drive and a game with two or more disks. Without alteration I would say most games will expect the disk to be in drive A and will try to load their files from there.

[Clint Thompson]

I feel like a bleached case will forever and always be better than a yellowed one but that's just my personal opinion. Congrats on the nice computer pickup!

[Zogging Hell]

I feel like a bleached case will forever and always be better than a yellowed one but that's just my personal opinion. Congrats on the nice computer pickup!

 

I kind of look on the yellowing like wrinkles, not entirely pleasant to look at, but gives you character..

[Neo-Rio]

 

I kind of look on the yellowing like wrinkles, not entirely pleasant to look at, but gives you character..

 

Ha!... well the keyboard keys are coming up white after their retr0brite bath. Much like the XE keyboard keys

The case is going to take a little longer... but I can see the original colour under the hood.

[atarifanboi]

I had limited success with retrobrite, getting a smooth consistent mix was the main problem.

[EzdineG]

I've an STE that's every bit as yellow as this one . Would you mind taking pictures of the process as well as before /after so I can get the fortitude to do this? Thanks.

 

 

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[trecool]

For me PSU recap would be the first priority. Better safe than sorry.

After that, a 4mb RAM upgrade is such a relief.

TOS comes last in line.

Not to mention buying an ultrasatan you can always have alternative os like Geneva/Magic (after adding ram).

 

Exxos has all you need.

[Neo-Rio]

I've an STE that's every bit as yellow as this one . Would you mind taking pictures of the process as well as before /after so I can get the fortitude to do this? Thanks.

All I'm using is 40vol creme developer. I can find it fairly easily in chemist shops, and it's active ingredient is hydrogen peroxide. It's simply premade retr0brite.

You pour it all over the plastic in question, wrap it in plastic wrap, and then put it out in the sun (or under a UV lamp if you have one).

 

 

This is the same case and keyboard I took a photo of before. The keys are back to white again.

The case seems like it is losing it's yellow tinge, but the sunlight here hasn't been great of late, so it will probably need another round in the sun.

Note that I put sticky tape over the Atari label on the case before I poured the developer on it. I don't want the label getting bleached.

 

It looks as if it will come up nicely. Now if only the sun will come out again.

[Neo-Rio]

Here's the motherboard... and the keyboard's been cleaned up and reassembled.

Night and day different from the yellowed original.

 

The motherboard has been cleaned of bugs (literally), and some spider webs.

 

 

So... it looks like I'll need to install a blitter, more memory, and a TOS board. Not to mention some mass storage (either ultrasatan or drive emulator)

Just got to afford all of that now. ... and I have no cash.

[Zogging Hell]

Looks like the MMU isn't socketed which might make the memory thing slightly more tricky. I'm not quite sure how Exxos's upgrades fit, but some of the older modules plug into the socketed MMU. Is the shifter soldered onto the motherboard directly as well? (In the silver box)