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Number of people who've created 2600 games?


DanOliver

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I was wondering today if more people had climbed Mt Everest than had written a 2600 game. Goggle says about 4000 climbers.

 

Goggle number of 2600 games found 470. But that didn't seem to include home brew.

 

Seems like it'd be way under 4000 however. Anyone have an idea on the number of 2600 game authors?

 

Just wondering.

 

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Sorry for double post. Seems no way to delete. Maybe in the 22nd century we'll have such awesome powers.

 

I get rather depressed sometimes when I see how little software has advanced in the last 30 years. When I got into computers I went from punch cards and paper tape to the Mac all in the space of 5 or 6 years. I thought that trajectory would continue, or even get faster. But in the last 30 years it seem like little has changed software wise, and really gone backwards in many areas. Game and graphic software has sure advanced. But desktop...horrible imo.

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Sorry for double post. Seems no way to delete. Maybe in the 22nd century we'll have such awesome powers.

 

I get rather depressed sometimes when I see how little software has advanced in the last 30 years. When I got into computers I went from punch cards and paper tape to the Mac all in the space of 5 or 6 years. I thought that trajectory would continue, or even get faster. But in the last 30 years it seem like little has changed software wise, and really gone backwards in many areas. Game and graphic software has sure advanced. But desktop...horrible imo.

 

Hardware has gotten faster, and we, accordingly, have found more creative ways to chew cycles.

 

But we've also had to contend with the generational "flap" ... that is, new blood coming in, and...basically re-discovering the same stuff the older generation was pushing towards, reinventing it... see Engelbart, Smalltalk; an endless barrage of names that we all know if we've been around long enough, and facepalm when one of the kiddies rediscovers something and calls it a new innovation (Ted Nelson has become the grand old crotchety man, in this department)

 

...we're about due another growth spurt... will write more later, when I've actually (#$#@(%@ woken up.

 

-Thom

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Also, I'm trying _very_ hard to be one of those people who have written a 2600 game (currently debugging motion code, hardware collision latches are fun because the collision has already HAPPENED. couple this with simply using HMOVE to do your positioning, and trying to do some sort of smooth motion, and...oh hey, my player went through the...damn it....)

 

This is an important piece of self growth for me, I need to prove that I can do it. :) (and do a good job of it)

 

-Thom

Edited by tschak909
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Sorry for double post. Seems no way to delete. Maybe in the 22nd century we'll have such awesome powers.

 

I get rather depressed sometimes when I see how little software has advanced in the last 30 years. When I got into computers I went from punch cards and paper tape to the Mac all in the space of 5 or 6 years. I thought that trajectory would continue, or even get faster. But in the last 30 years it seem like little has changed software wise, and really gone backwards in many areas. Game and graphic software has sure advanced. But desktop...horrible imo.

 

 

Hardware has gotten faster, and we, accordingly, have found more creative ways to chew cycles.

 

But we've also had to contend with the generational "flap" ... that is, new blood coming in, and...basically re-discovering the same stuff the older generation was pushing towards, reinventing it... see Engelbart, Smalltalk; an endless barrage of names that we all know if we've been around long enough, and facepalm when one of the kiddies rediscovers something and calls it a new innovation (Ted Nelson has become the grand old crotchety man, in this department)

 

...we're about due another growth spurt... will write more later, when I've actually (#$#@(%@ woken up.

 

-Thom

 

Both great perspective.

 

imo computer technology has been static for the past 20 years (what's actually new?) and changed very little in the past 30 except the internet replacing BBS forms and message board emails and Compuserve.

 

My thoughts on the generation gap is that modern programmers are far too removed from the hardware to program efficiently and could avoid many bottlenecks by studying BASIC or Assembly and learning to design an Atari 2600 game! :) That long running script that freezes up your web browser wouldn't happen if the programmer had ever been outside the sandbox.

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I was updating my Mac notebook OS and XCode when I posted. Horrible experience. The original Mac, if I remember right, didn't have any kind of install. An EXE was just like any other file. It was so simple. Updating the OS meant getting a new OS boot disk I think. OK, software today I would expect to be larger and have many more files, so some install would be expected. But it's takes step after step. Download the image which took more than an hour, OK, no problem. Then it asks "do you want to install?". Click "Yes". Another hour. So you have to be there to click "Yes". When I was at Apple late 80's there is absolutely no possible way anyone would ever be allowed to such dumb software.

 

And then the progress bar. Back in the 80's we made a lot of fun of Microsoft because they'd put up a progress bar for tasks the code had no way of guessing at duration. So the bar would take 30 minutes to tick thru 5% of the bar and zip thru the last 95% in the final 2 seconds. And then they'd put up another bar. We used to say they should put up a progress bars that showed the number of progress bars they would be displaying. Inside Apple we had meeting and there were UI guidelines to implement progress displays. Today Apple has the exact same progress bar mess Microsoft had. Microsoft was always dinged for stealing from Apple. Seems like Apple has stolen a like of bad design from Microsoft.

 

The youth of programmers being the issue is interesting. Hadn't thought of that before. I kind of assumed it was just standard human nature of not wanting to change. But it is a strange situation where the less experienced you are the more valued you are. I read a Stack Overflow survey result showing most of their users had 2-5 years experience and most were from India. So they said look to India as the future of programming. Which to me sounds dumb. With that logic aren't 10 year olds the "future of programming"?

 

Network tech has been a huge advance.

 

Looking just at software development it's really embarrassing to me to be part of such a stagnant, backward facing, profession. Yet we're thought of as forward thinkers, out of the box thinkers. I can't even make fun of the legal, medical and political professions any more for being stuck in the past because my profession is even worst. And we have less of an excuse. The overhead to improving is almost zero compared to other professions.

 

Oh well. I don't see it changing in my lifetime which is what really makes me sad. We could have changed the world, but we were the weak link.

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I thought I was the only one who thought computers don't seem much better than they used to be...

 

I bought a small laptop in 2001 that did everything I needed (for about $2k). Then went shopping again a couple of years ago... everything was cheaper, all the specs were bigger, but hardly anything was really much faster or worked much better.

 

Another example: I still think Amiga Deluxe Paint III (1987?) is one of the easiest ways to create basic animation; even though hardware specs have gotten a lot better, new software is created to handle that, but simple and easy use seem to be left behind. New software just gets "specced up" without being really improved much. I know some of the high end software is very capable, but also very complicated; it's made for the professional graphics mechanic/illustrator, not your basic drag-n-dropper.

 

Another irritation is all the extra manual steps they keep adding ("Are you sure you want to ..."). Automating a new process at the consumer level seems harder these days. And so much of the new tech seems to need configuration and training.

 

This is all probably just a natural consequence of increasing complexity as programmability moves into everything. If this trend continues, it's going to get really interesting as robots start appearing everywhere creating their own unexpected consequences.

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I remember back to a lecture that Dr. Alan Kay had given, where he posed the question,

 

"Why was Engelbart's NLS system so responsive?"

 

He let that question sit for more than a few moments, while everyone was dead silent...before he finally answered.

 

"It was responsive, because they wanted it to be."

 

---------------------------------- but, maybe I am digressing...

 

I am thinking on how best to reply to this thread, as I share many of the same concerns....if not all of them.

 

coupled with the fact that I am SCARED SHITLESS, that I am way out of the median for any sort of software engineer (I am 38 years old, this October)....that I've had to resort to continuously pushing myself into every little niche that comes along (I am currently in DevOps, mind numbing shit, truly... it is like building the plumbing in the movie Brazil.)

 

Do you know what I wanted most? I wanted to make it to a research and development lab. I wanted to be in a place like PARC. (or one of Atari's many research departments...hehe...)... and that dream gets further away with each passing day, no matter how much I claw and scratch, and manoeuvre...I can't seem to get there... (ironically, in the research institutions, the opposite weirdness is happening, all of the R&D luminaries from the 1960s and 1970s _are still there_ Butler Lampson still has a post at Microsoft Research!)

 

sigh.

 

Life sucks...

 

oh well, I guess I'll go back to the VCS coding...at least that gives me a challenge.

 

-Thom

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Yeah IT seems to be going backwards these days. I was sitting in a meeting a couple weeks ago where our IT department was asking for $10 million to move our billing/record keeping software back to a mainframe. They used a lot of fancy terms to make it sound like something different, but it was definitely a mainframe. In the end they will probably regret it as it will make it easier to outsource a big chunk of their department.

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Another irritation is all the extra manual steps they keep adding ("Are you sure you want to ..."). Automating a new process at the consumer level seems harder these days. And so much of the new tech seems to need configuration and training.

 

This is all probably just a natural consequence of increasing complexity as programmability moves into everything. If this trend continues, it's going to get really interesting as robots start appearing everywhere creating their own unexpected consequences.

Yesssss I'm sure you %$!dumb%$# piece of *^%#$. Too bad computers don't record user verbal interaction and them directly to the developer. Maybe that would help.

 

I don't think this has to do with increasing complexity of software. In many ways software complexity has been greatly reduced. The most used languages for example are a higher level, meaning they require less understanding of computers and software concepts. It allows many more people to become programmers. It's kind of like making it easier for lots more people to become heart surgeons. It's not all upside.

 

Do you mean software bots? I think they'll be the best thing ever for programmers. More fun to make than games. In both cases you're trying to get into users' heads.

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Do you know what I wanted most? I wanted to make it to a research and development lab. I wanted to be in a place like PARC. (or one of Atari's many research departments...hehe...)... and that dream gets further away with each passing day, no matter how much I claw and scratch, and manoeuvre...I can't seem to get there... (ironically, in the research institutions, the opposite weirdness is happening, all of the R&D luminaries from the 1960s and 1970s _are still there_ Butler Lampson still has a post at Microsoft Research!)

Be careful what you wish for. I retired about 15 years ago to do software research. I'm kind of thinking research is best done as part of product development. I think I produced more innovation when cranking out products. With research there is a chance I'd have a big break through but I'm pretty sure that if I did that the rest of the software world would dismiss it. That's been true in the past so I assume that would keep happening.

 

A week ago I went to a startup incubator here in Phoenix and started 2 projects with 2 different companies. Both failed within a day or so but it sure stimulated my creativity. More big, decent ideas than I've had in 5 years. So I think I'm going to get back to creating products or prototypes.

 

I think today it would be easier to get out of DevOps than it has been in a long time. Back when I started programming anyone, and I mean anyone, could get a job as a programmer with the only skill being able pick a computer out of lineup of household appliances and a desire to try. In the 90's software dev pretended to grow up and there were fewer interesting projects, projects were huge. Internet would have been interesting but I missed that. And the 2000 crash put a damper on fun projects. But it seems out of control crazy again. For awhile games were huge projects, but now there are tons of opportunities for one person games. And most mobile apps are really simple little apps. Reminds me of the 2600.

 

You referenced age...are you meaning you're getting too old? I'm almost 60 and have no problem getting projects. When a company really needs a software project completed they don't care about your age, race, sex or species. But you do have to show that experience. That may mean doing your own project on the side first to prove yourself. Or better yet doing a project for a startup that has no money. You get experience, contacts and show you not only can get a product out but can in a startup environment. Just gotta do it.

 

Oh yeah one more thing...if you have a wife, kids, pets or plants you'll probably have to get rid of them. Software is a demanding mistress. You really gotta love it.

Edited by DanOliver
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