ndary Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 i was looking through my old letters back from the early 90ies.. and found the catalog from CSS, did anyone here had "The Impossible" upgrade and can describe how it worked? did it do what the add described? Nir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FULS Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Hi, That and the Omnimon were my favorite purchases back in the day. The Impossible did what it advertised. It made a perfect copy of my "One on One Disk" by Electronic Arts and many others. The down side was it would only load on an Atari that had the Impossible board in it. Here are some downloads that you may find interesting. Impossible!, The (1984)(Computer Software Services).zip Impossible.pdf Nice to see you back here in the forums. Hope this helps. Doug 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Hello guys The down side was it would only load on an Atari that had the Impossible board in it. AFAIK there was a version that didn't need "The Impossible" after a disk was analyzed by "The Impossible". Might have been "The Impossible XL". Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 AFAIK there was a version that didn't need "The Impossible" after a disk was analyzed by "The Impossible". Might have been "The Impossible XL". I don't know about an "XL" version. But AFAIK, CSS later released a software that would let you run most (or many, but not all) copies on a plain computer. I think the name of the software was "The Miracle". I had an old add with all the CSS titles, but I can't find it right now ... Anybody ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+David_P Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Looking at the CSS website, that sounds like The Black Patch. http://nleaudio.com/css/products.htmor http://nleaudio.com/css/products/blkpatch.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Wow, 400 patches on 2 data disks...All my versions have less than 50 (not counted to be honest but its around that) and only 1 data disk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Looking at the CSS website, that sounds like The Black Patch. http://nleaudio.com/css/products.htmor http://nleaudio.com/css/products/blkpatch.htm I don't think so. The Black Patch seems to be a "regular" patcher program and database, not related to the Impossible. Many CSS software products are not listed at nleaudio website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Did this program use a startup screen or similar with a cheaped out tune of the Mission Impossible theme? I remember having a copy of it, and looked into it. Pretty sure it was a copying system that worked by dumping out memory once a game had loaded. Only would work on programs that could survive the user hitting Reset. Was made in pre-XL times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I have one, but it has just 1 of the big ram chips, plus I need to re-solder the switch wires back on to the board... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndary Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 I also remember seeing "The Impossible XL" some where.. is the Impossible for the ATARI 800 came as a complete plug in PCB or an addon PCB? Nir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndary Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 Here are the ad for the "XL Impossible" and for the "Miracle", the Miracble say to be a disk version software of the "Impossible" does anyone have this and can record a short video how they work? Nir 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 I never had any of these, since I had Happy and Super Archivers, but... The Miracle surely must be a "patcher" program that became the "Black Patch." And although this is just speculation, I always thought that the Impossible! versions had to have a set of routines that would generate the same type of error to send to the computer that the original copy protection would. So on the disk, when you got to the protection, the copy would call a routine from a rom/eprom/sram pac in the IMP. It would generate the error, and so on. (?) Although from a PC, isn't this is (in essence) what an ATX or Pro image does? It will be very interesting to hear from folks that actually used one -- the Impossible! was always fascinating to me. Did anyone ever compare a copy from the Impossible to an original? -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender II Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Wow! With 10,000 XL-Impossible!'s in production you'd think I'd have been able to find one by now! I wonder how many were actually completed. If anybody has an Impossible! or XL-Impossible! for sale please let me know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Talking of state making hardware, the board that Dave Tuttle and Mike Morgan made which Computerhouse in Fulham stole, sorry sold also did a loadable full state, and as per normal these days I've forgotten the name of the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 The Miracle surely must be a "patcher" program that became the "Black Patch." I don't think so ... And although this is just speculation, I always thought that the Impossible! versions had to have a set of routines that would generate the same type of error to send to the computer that the original copy protection would. So on the disk, when you got to the protection, the copy would call a routine from a rom/eprom/sram pac in the IMP. It would generate the error, and so on. (?) I agree. I also suspect it is a protection emulator, not a freezer. Although from a PC, isn't this is (in essence) what an ATX or Pro image does? Yes, but besides that the information was gathered with a different level of accuracy. A "software" impossible is invasive and then not fully compatible. That XL version probably runs a custom OS under the ROM. That's why the software version requires 64K (XL or XE) and wasn't available for the plain 800. Obviously it will break in sever cases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Hello guys According to Alpha Systems' "Advanced Atari Protection Techniques", the Impossible as available of the 400/800 and the XL. Installation in a computer where chips aren't socketed "require an extremely good technician". "To install it, you must ... remove a few chips, and replace them with some others". "Their special hardware actually changes the operating system of the Atari so hat once activated, all calls to the disk drive are channelled through their program. Their program sits in the unused 4K of address space at BFFF to D000." The article on the Impossible takes up four pages. The book has been scanned and is available on the net. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 The disk for The Impossible loads about 1.5K of code into $C000 that definitely looks like either a SIOV or DSKINV intercept with about four JMP vectors at the base. There are no checks for the hardware, so you can get it to upload the code just by booting it on a 52K 800 configuration. There's some switch at $D600, though. This looks simple enough that it might be possible to derive the necessary hooks in the base OS from the runtime code alone without a ROM dump. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Hopefully this isn't too off topic, but has anyone ever been able to convince Bob Puff to put his hardware designs into the public domain? He made some of the best hardware mods in the day. However he no longer sells any of it. And we are all getting a lot older, so it would be a pity to see this stuff lost for good. Just my 2 cents. - Michael 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 >> The Miracle surely must be a "patcher" program that became the "Black Patch." I don't think so ... << Hi ijor- What do you think it was/did? My reasoning is that it was disk only, and for $69.95 it came with a couple of extra items. Then it was no longer advertised, and the Black Patch took its place without extras for $49.95 (IIRC). But I really don't have any info besides the advertisements. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Hopefully this isn't too off topic, but has anyone ever been able to convince Bob Puff to put his hardware designs into the public domain? He made some of the best hardware mods in the day. However he no longer sells any of it. And we are all getting a lot older, so it would be a pity to see this stuff lost for good. Just my 2 cents. - Michael I think that for some $$$ he might. I'd be willing to make a very meaningful contribution, but depends on what he has left and what he wants. Lots of details, but any others that may be willing to contribute? Some money might provide incentive for Bob to dig through his stuff and see what is really there. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Hi ijor- What do you think it was/did? My reasoning is that it was disk only, and for $69.95 it came with a couple of extra items. Then it was no longer advertised, and the Black Patch took its place without extras for $49.95 (IIRC). Well, as the add posted by Nir Dary says, it is just a software version of the Impossible. Instead of extra RAM and a different OS on EPROM. It used (I assume) the ram under the rom, both for ram storage and for replacing the SIO entry point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Some money might provide incentive for Bob to dig through his stuff and see what is really there. Didn't he give permission to clone his products when he was asked? The problem is that, as some people reported here, he lost all his original material, sources and schematics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 You could well be correct. Or maybe he hasn't had the incentive to dig around. And putting the stuff in the public domain removes any questions. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) Didn't he give permission to clone his products when he was asked? The problem is that, as some people reported here, he lost all his original material, sources and schematics. If that is so, it would be nice to verify that. And if that stuff did get lost, it just supports my original fear and why I was suggesting to get this stuff in the PD in the first place. But if what you are saying is true, I guess it might be too late. What a pity since he made some truly wonderful things like the dual XF drive upgrade (required an encapsulated mystery hardware circuit), the non-software only "Impossible" (also had an encapsulated mystery circuit), a great EPROM burner (IIRC it might have been even better than the one Dropcheck is presently re-imagining), and of course lets not forget the BB and its associated floppy board. I think that for some $$$ he might. I'd be willing to make a very meaningful contribution, but depends on what he has left and what he wants. Lots of details, but any others that may be willing to contribute? Some money might provide incentive for Bob to dig through his stuff and see what is really there. -Larry I dunno, to me it would kind of rub me the wrong way to have to pay for what is no longer being produced or pursued. I for one donate lots of my time in putting out new hardware and firmware designs for free. I'm not saying people shouldn't make money off of their hard work, but in this case that money was already collected years ago, and then the product was essentially abandoned for many years thereafter. Unless that individual plans on bringing this back into production, it just makes sense to at least give it to someone that can either reproduce it again (I.e., Dropcheck), or put it into the PD for all of the DIY people to work with. Just my humble opinion. - Michael EDIT: Larry if the date and time in your quoted post looks incorrect, that is because I had a change of mind and decided to quote something you had said earlier that seemed more pertinent to this discussion. I had updated the date/time as well, but it didn't stick for some reason after I submitted it. Sorry for any confusion this may cause. Edited July 10, 2016 by mytekcontrols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Sure, I can understand that, but OTOH, if it were a piece of hardware (maybe a 1450 or such), then pretty much no one would object to trying to sell it. It just happens to be intellectual property instead of tangible property. My take, at least. We'll see what he says. He may have no interest. -Larry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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