KevinMos3 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) I greatly prefer CRT for older game systems. IMO, even if the signal is super clean, like HDMI on the NES Classic, those games look better on CRT because they were not meant to be viewed pixel perfect. Some games depend on the color bleed to give the appearance of extra detail. Because I mostly play older games, the TV in my living room (my main TV) is a CRT. In fact, one of the main reasons I didn't go for buying an NES Classic was because of it being HDMI only. Although, now that you can load more games on them, I'll pick one up once more are available. Now, composite on a modern TV is a different story. Modern TVs look terrible with anything older than an XBOX 360, IMO, and don't do any kind of analog signal decently. If I were stuck with an LCD or plasma TV and didn't have a CRT available, I'd go with HDMI. The reverse is also true. Anything XBOX 360 or newer just doesn't look right on a CRT. I have a 360 hooked up to my CRT in the living room and only really use it for Youtube or Crackle. The CRT just doesn't have enough resolution to even read the text in many games, so you can't get necessary in-game instructions. If I want to play a 360 game, I go to the LCD in the bedroom. Actually, I put off getting a modern TV until I got tired of trying to play 360 games on my CRT. Bottom line, I would definitely prefer composite over HDMI as long as CRTs are readily available. Edited January 21, 2017 by KevinMos3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillLoguidice Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) I greatly prefer CRT for older game systems. IMO, even if the signal is super clean, like HDMI on the NES Classic, those games look better on CRT because they were not meant to be viewed pixel perfect. Some games depend on the color bleed to give the appearance of extra detail. Because I mostly play older games, the TV in my living room (my main TV) is a CRT. In fact, one of the main reasons I didn't go for buying an NES Classic was because of it being HDMI only. Although, now that you can load more games on them, I'll pick one up once more are available. I actually love proper HDMI classic gaming, e.g., Retro Freak. I can play these games on a super-sized screen (much bigger than ever possible via CRT) and I think the pixelated graphics look glorious. As long as it's done right, I consider that ideal. I mean, I can play on a CRT any time I want, but the TVs that are most accessible (and again, large, with the best sound system add-on) are all modern. I don't want to get into too many details, but, at least for this year, AtGames will be going for an SD/HD strategy (separate SKUs) with the Atari and Sega consoles. That may very well be the last year though before going all HD. By 2018, we may not see any SD stuff, even in those $20 game joysticks. I won't miss it, because again, for those of us who still genuinely like the old stuff, we have our original systems. Edited January 21, 2017 by BillLoguidice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrekkiELO Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) To be fair, $300 is a lot of coin for some folks. Thank you, yeah, indeed, this is almost an entire paycheck for me, so it's hard to justify a purchase like that on my limited weekly income even IF it has been out for over 10 years! Edited January 21, 2017 by TrekkiELO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillLoguidice Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 To be fair, $300 is a lot of coin for some folks. It's all relative, though. $300 really is not that much money if you get to use it for 10+ years, let's say. No one is saying to go into the poor house, but if you're plunking down money for $40 gaming handhelds, it's not that much of a leap to think about saving some money up for slightly more expensive purchases. Of course, who knows what else needs buying, but really, you have to go out of your way to support a non-HD TV these days, including if you want to actually watch TV on it. My only point was, it's not an outrageous idea to own a modern TV, regardless of income level. As others have stated, I think the percentage of people without HDTVs at this point is incredibly small, and a lot of that has to do with a significantly lower barrier to entry (and I'm not even counting even less expensive, but still good HDTVs that are used). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillLoguidice Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Thank you, yeah, indeed, this is almost an entire paycheck for me, so it's hard to justify a purchase like that on my income even IF it has been out for over 10 years! If you don't mind my asking, why is your income so relatively limited? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 If you don't mind my asking, why is your income so relatively limited? He probably just values more retrogaming stuff over a new TV. I would rather game on a smallish 1080p PC monitor even if it is smaller than a typical HDTV due to extremely low latencies. I still use an old 1600x1200 pixel display on my non-gaming desktop (cost like $700 in 2005) and the 23" 1080p ASUS monitor I bought for a computer upgrade in 2009 ($200 newegg special) became my primary gaming display. 1:1 pixel aspect, no overscan, 9ms latency, and crystal clean scaling on 720p signals. You just can't find that level of perfection in a consumer TV which is why I insist PC monitors are the best gaming displays and swear by them. Just it's hard to find anything bigger than 30", and avoid the extra wide crap. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Modern TVs look terrible with anything older than an XBOX 360, IMO, and don't do any kind of analog signal decently. Idunno, I think the Wii and the original XBox look pretty decent through component video, although a lot of XBox games are hit-and-miss with widescreen support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 You can get a good 40" TV for less than $300, so I don't really see the issue. It might take some of us all year to save $300. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Bottom line, I would definitely prefer composite over HDMI as long as CRTs are readily available. That's the thing.. CRTs aren't going to be readily available forever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I actually love proper HDMI classic gaming, e.g., Retro Freak. I can play these games on a super-sized screen (much bigger than ever possible via CRT) and I think the pixelated graphics look glorious. As long as it's done right, I consider that ideal. I mean, I can play on a CRT any time I want, but the TVs that are most accessible (and again, large, with the best sound system add-on) are all modern. The key word here, I believe, is "proper". In order to do proper HDMI classic gaming you need to start from scratch and synthesize the image entirely within the digital domain. This means no analog stuff. No s-video or RGB mods, no composite-to-framemeister-to-display trail to hike through. This means either emulation or a type of video mod that replaces the video generator chip (TIA, VIC-II, GTIA). The chip-replacement mod is emulation itself because the new one is going to be done via FPGA. And FPGA is emulation. There is a mod exactly like so for the VCS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillLoguidice Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 It might take some of us all year to save $300. OK, then spend $100 on a 32" TV. My only point was, they're not that much money to have to limit yourself to CRTs in this day and age where it's actually made difficult to make use of one outside of other vintage tech. Otherwise, sure, we should of course spend money only on the things critical or important to us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 He probably just values more retrogaming stuff over a new TV. I would rather game on a smallish 1080p PC monitor even if it is smaller than a typical HDTV due to extremely low latencies. I still use an old 1600x1200 pixel display on my non-gaming desktop (cost like $700 in 2005) and the 23" 1080p ASUS monitor I bought for a computer upgrade in 2009 ($200 newegg special) became my primary gaming display. 1:1 pixel aspect, no overscan, 9ms latency, and crystal clean scaling on 720p signals. You just can't find that level of perfection in a consumer TV which is why I insist PC monitors are the best gaming displays and swear by them. Just it's hard to find anything bigger than 30", and avoid the extra wide crap. I've got a 23" 6ms 1600x1200 4:3 monitor and plan to pick up a couple of spares on ebay. Computer monitors are sleepers to be sure! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 My advice? Look for things like church sales or pawn shops or flea markets or garage sales; Any one of which might have a better TV waiting for you at (comparatively) dirt cheap prices. Save up if you have to, but there are options out there...Of course look for something that is in good shape,...You'll want to cherry pick the best item here...Sometimes you see a situation where someone just upgraded so they gave away or sold their old TV to make way for the latest thing. That would be ideal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Regardless of which side of the CRT vs. HDTV debate you fall on, I don't think it's fair to chastise, even lightly, those who prefer how games look on CRT's. We can argue which is "better" and which was "intended" and all kinds of other subjective measurements until the cows come home, but in the end some of us are just going to like scan lines, rounded pixels and NTSC color effects more than cold, precise, jagged stairsteps and checkerboards, or worse, something mushy and out of focus. Yes, my bias is showing. Nyah. Having said that, I do agree that expecting newer tech to remain compatible with aging CRT's is not practical. I don't think making the NES Classic HDMI-only was a bad idea, and I don't bemoan AtGames going in that direction either. The only thing that will separate me from my CRT's is either their deaths or mine, but like it not, HDTV is not only the future, it's overwhelmingly the present. Having said that, I believe the technology is out there to make old games look just as "good" on HDTV's as on CRT's. That means CRT people don't have to dread the end of their televisions, and all of us don't have to have these constant debates on which is "better". There are the linedoublers and Framemeisters for genuine hardware, but there are also a lot of good post-processing filters to give modern clones and emulators the look CRT fans know and love. The NES Classic's "CRT" filter was a step in the right direction, but Nestopia's "NTSC" filter is so much better. It turns this: ...into this: That's beautiful, in my humble opinion, and perfectly captures that unique NES way colors clash and blur onscreen. MAME's RGB aperture effects are also fun to play with. They allow us to have visuals like this: Just about how I remember it in the arcades! As HDTV technology gets even better, with higher base resolutions and better contrast ratios, I believe we'll all get the visuals we want. And hey, you want that phosphor glow the way vector monitors used to make? There's an app for that too (which hopefully one day will see more development)! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Plans going forward since I don't want to repost the same message all over Atariage. We have many hacks and discussion going on here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/259166-flashback-portable-needed-controller-hacks/ Quite a few new games have been added, such as a completely working Berzerk and Spyhunter. Check out that link going forward, and now I'll let you all get back to bantering about composit vs. HDMI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Ok...I'm really late here and (just) found out about this thing three days ago (since I don't subscribe to the flashback forums), so I breathlessly grabbed my wife with the excuse we needed a 21st birthday present for our niece here in a few weeks, and rushed out and bought one ($54 w/tax at Target, second to last one on the shelf, and that last one was rattling around in the box, so it may have been returned or whatever). Still need the birthday present, though. While charging it, I read this whole thread and the other one about compatibility. Worked my way through two SD cards that didn't work (one 8Gb SD and one 4Gb microSD with an adapter) and finally got the third 1Gb to work...still plenty of room for alternate folders for different libraries; I just have to rename the one I want to "Game". Even as an avid 2600 cart collector for many years, I finally played some more NEW games since I've always used real carts in the past and haven't yet got myself a Harmony. I had tried a few roms on a PC emulator a few years ago, but it wasn't satisfying so I never put much effort into it. I've got to say this is the best non-authentic-original-Atari method for these games I've used...I LOVE IT! (even if some games don't work, the fantastic effort put into hacking the broken games by all you selfless contributers has pretty much eliminated that as an issue for me). Also, the Dpad doesn't always go the way I want...not sure but I don't think it's defective, just not precise when going from up or down to left or right or vice versa. Maybe I can get used to it and make it work better...we'll see. Yes, it's too bad about the paddle games, but I'm OK using my real system with real paddles for those anyway. Even if there was a dial or something on the FBP, paddle games make my hands move so much the screen would likely jiggle too much to make it worthwhile anyway. Probably like many of you, I'm older than I used to be, don't see quite as well as I used to, and would like a bigger screen. I guess from experience with my 7inch tablet, that would be a great size. And it does look slightly different from each eye (that portrait vs landscape thing mentioned above?), but it still beats other handhelds I've been perfectly content with in the past like the Gamegear, Turboexpress, Nomad. It also seems more solid than some of the other 3rd party portables I've used. And finally, having a portable 2600 is just really cool! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithbk Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) But that's the issue we were talking about until you rode in on your high horse. No one is saying the seller shouldn't download or possess ROM's. Just that he shouldn't be trying to profit on them. Additionally, he's breaking Ebay's TOS. Just so you know how I feel about it, I am happy to allow you to download the ROM to Another Adventure and play it. I don't mind if you help a friend put it on their Flashback Portable (and it does play wonderfully). Please don't sell my ROM. I'm letting you download it and play it for free, but I did spend much more time working on it that you will downloading it and sticking it on a flash card, so you don't have the right to profit on my ROM. Now, you can go ahead and sell the Flash Drive for what you paid for it and you can have my ROM on there for free. Why? Because I like you. PS: Sorry I'm so late in joining in this discussion, which is WAY back in this thread, but I was off for a bit working on my novel and a graphic novel, so got heavily sidetracked. Edited January 28, 2017 by keithbk 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 WISH LIST / SUGGESTION: So again, realizing 2017 is probably locked at this point, but for a 2018 or 2019 AFP (love the little sucker) Aside from: - Corrected emulation (from all that we have learned on how vBlank is not emulated properly yet an other emulation issues) - Use Atgames wireless controllers. - Ability to connect AFP's for a 2 to 4 player game wirelessly. I think it would be awesome if there was a media player. We have up to 8 gb of space to use, and only use like 4 mb of it? Would be nice if you could switch it to music mode and listen to some tunes for a great use of the extra space. An .MP3 player or some media format. On the Sega Flashback Portable I was able to find the VGM player that plays on the Genesis (links below for details on that) which gives me the music the Sega Genesis games (and I ported over the music from Jaguar Bubsy to the Genesis). So on the Genesis you have at least that option for lots of music. But on the Atari VCS/2600 you just have the occasional demo. http://atariage.com/forums/blog/234/entry-13614-cruizin-the-sega-gopher-march-2017-jaguar-bubsy-music-now-playable-on-genesis/ http://atariage.com/forums/blog/234/entry-13617-cruizin-vgm-music-april-2017-the-bubsy-jukebox-for-the-genesis/ http://atariage.com/forums/blog/234/entry-13628-cruizin-vgm-music-may-2017-the-bubsy-fft-jukebox-for-the-genesis/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Clu -- I started a thread about the 2017 portables if you want to take it there! Bill L has dropped a few hints and is likely to follow with interest http://atariage.com/forums/topic/259236-2017-flashback-speculation-thread/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3667414 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug0909 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Where's my Odyssey 2 / Videopac portable with 4K out and 7.1 sound??! Seriously though if you are building a device with a 2 inch screen largely targeting people in their 40's and 50's, a system with big, monochrome colorful, flicker free graphics might not be a bad choice. And who wouldn't want to play Pick Axe Pete on the go?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 And who wouldn't want to play Pick Axe Pete on the go?? Most people, I guess, as evidenced by the lack of an O2EM port in the Android store. RetroArch works nicely but it's a drag to set up. The Dingoo and GCW Zero play a nice game of portable Pick Axe Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer4x4 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Currently, where is the cheapest place to get an AFP? I am ready to order on Amazon for $51. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenafoot Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Currently, where is the cheapest place to get an AFP? I am ready to order on Amazon for $51. Toys R Us has them for $49.99 with free shipping: http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=96047666&prodFindSrc=search&cp= Bed Bath & Beyond (online) is sold out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrekkiELO Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) If you don't mind my asking, why is your income so relatively limited? Way too many repeat car repairs, horrible house rentals, credit card bills, otherwise healthy except for her teeth 66 year old Mom's July 2016 medical misdiagnosis who's on a limited income, job harassment problems, also so-called fickle family and friends robbing us all since at least January 2011, then the rest of my life in general to elaborate about here. Edited February 11, 2017 by TrekkiELO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I just got this in the mail. Free shipping and 10% off entire order. PROMO CODE: PRESDAY17Atari Flashback® Ultimate Portable Game Playerhttp://www.atgames.us/writeReview.sc?productId=37Thank you for shopping with us.- AtGames Flashback Zone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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