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TK-II-STEREO Board (Incorporates Dual Pokey, U-Switch, PS/2 Dual Keyboard)

TK-II Stereo Dual Pokey PS/2 Keyboard

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#1 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:14 PM

So this will be a thru-hole based Dual Pokey board that incorporates a U-Switch type function and a Dual PS/2 Keyboard based on the TransKey-II (TK-II) hardware/firmware. It'll be pretty close to the same size as Lotharek's Stereo Board, except all the connectors will be on the lower end of the board close to the original Pokey chip, as opposed to the upper end like on Lotharek's board. This will allow better clearance in an XEGS, where the cartridge port resides.

 

This is fully compatible with the U1MB BIOS Stereo detection and enable/disable via the U1MB /MO port.

 

Here is the tested circuit...

 

vzE7kLu.png

 

All of the parts get soldered in place, thus the need for the ICSP PIC programming port connections on J2. Most all of the components, other than connectors J1-J3 will reside inside the footprint of the two 40 pin Pokey sockets, and need to be of a low profile so as to allow the Pokey chips to be fully seated.

 

This design specification has now been locked in and tested on real hardware. So the next job will be to lay out a PCB, and then have a few sample boards made for final testing.

 

I will not be selling these boards, but just like the other TK-II boards I previously designed, they will be uploaded to OSH Park for purchasing by anyone who is interested. This is a DIY project, but hopefully someone will step up to make boards for those that do not possess the necessary skills to do so.

 

Time line for this project is approximately one month, with boards being available on OSH Park soon after.

 

The PIC MCU firmware is the same as used on the existing TK-II product line, and will also be in-circuit programmable with the JOY2PIC Atari-to-PIC programmer.

 

Latest Firmware Download is available here: ataribits.weebly.com/design

 

 

This should be a nice addition to the Stereo Board collection  :)

 

- Michael

 



#2 Brentarian OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:00 AM

As always, thank you for your contributions to the Atari community. We appreciate you!

Will your combo board be able to fit all models (i.e. 600xl and 400/800)?

#3 Madi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:46 AM

From time to time, life shows us few more special ways to appreciate it.
Whenever people’s joy comes out of giving joy to others, then life must be appreciated.
Let me express my gratitude to you Michael for the time and money, thoughts, Ideas and emotions you spent in these projects. I am sure that Atari Age community is proud to have such members.
 
I regret that English is not my mother language, but have to say THANK you Michael.
 
madi


#4 venom4728a OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:39 PM

Nice, very interested. 



#5 Bumzyman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:08 PM

Very cool..



#6 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:47 PM

Wow thank you all for your kind words. It is very much appreciated  :) .  Madi your English is quite good, and I had no problems understanding and getting the genuine nature of your message  :thumbsup:  But some thanks also need to be given to Steve Cardin, who many times plants the seeds in my brain that end up leading me down the road I take with some of these projects. It was he that first proposed to me the idea of integrating these 3 things into one, but it was so early in the TK-II project that I just filed it away in a back corner of my mind. Finally I have both the time and the ambition to make it happen. Also there's nothing like taking existing upgrades and installing them together to really find out some of the problems associated with doing this.

 

 

Will your combo board be able to fit all models (i.e. 600xl and 400/800)?

 

It should fit into all XL's and XE's no problem. But for a 400/800 it would probably need to move more towards the front which would not be good for the XL's. So it might take a different board layout for those early computers. I'll target the XL/XE line with my first board layout, and then if that is well received and there is good interest in making a version for the 400/800 series I'll likely also tackle that. It's really too bad that going higher is not an option, because doing a two board stacked design would minimize the footprint and thereby make for a universal fit. Oh well  :ponder:

 

- Michael



#7 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:15 PM

"It'll be pretty close to the same size as Lotharek's Stereo Board, except all the connectors will be on the lower end of the board close to the original Pokey chip, as opposed to the upper end like on Lotharek's board."

After doing a better analysis of all of the XL and XE series computers, I've had a change of mind, and have decided that the Lotharek layout for the connectors makes more sense. Bottom line it should just plug in without having to move any of the other existing components, and be of minimal interference to retaining the original RF shields. The layout used on Lotharek's and Candle's Stereo Boards is about as optimum as you can do in this respect. Of course for non-socketed machines it will still require that a socket be installed for Pokey.

400/800 version

It would need a mirror image board with the 2nd Pokey chip being on the opposite side from the original piggy-backed Pokey. This should work for both the 400 and 800, but on the 800 you would need to remove a row of capacitors and replace them with low profile ones. However the 400 which can benefit the most from a replacement keyboard looks to be a drop-in no modification fit for the mirror image board.


- Michael

Edited by mytekcontrols, Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:34 PM.


#8 adam242 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:20 AM

400/800 version

It would need a mirror image board with the 2nd Pokey chip being on the opposite side from the original piggy-backed Pokey. This should work for both the 400 and 800, but on the 800 you would need to remove a row of capacitors and replace them with low profile ones.

 

Definitely want at least two of these! This would be a good option for my 1200XL with the AtariMax 32-in-1 OS modification as well...



#9 576XE OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:41 AM

Why there're NO incorporated TOPRE keycaps?

 

If you can explain Atari how to read this PC-likes why you can't to sell full Atari-based  equipment with drivers?

 

I mean NEW 8-bit keyboard and I'm NEED it!

(May be all of us!)



#10 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:26 PM

Why there're NO incorporated TOPRE keycaps?

 

If you can explain Atari how to read this PC-likes why you can't to sell full Atari-based  equipment with drivers?

 

I mean NEW 8-bit keyboard and I'm NEED it!

(May be all of us!)

 

This is most certainly a language translation issue...

But what are TOPRE keycaps? And I really don't know what to make out of the other things you said  :?

 

- Michael



#11 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:14 AM

Why there're NO incorporated TOPRE keycaps?
 
If you can explain Atari how to read this PC-likes why you can't to sell full Atari-based  equipment with drivers?
 
I mean NEW 8-bit keyboard and I'm NEED it!
(May be all of us!)


OK after doing a bit of Googling I now know what was meant by TOPRE keycaps. Basically it refers to a high quality capacitive key switch used in very expensive keyboards. And apparently the other things you mentioned seem to tie into the idea of a better keyboard for use on an Atari. Still not entirely sure how this really relates to this topic, other than maybe utilizing the TK-II PS/2-TO-Atari keyboard translation hardware, and combining this with a PS/2 version of one of the TOPRE based keyboards? But of course I am just making some wild guesses.

- Michael

Edited by mytekcontrols, Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:22 AM.


#12 576XE OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:07 AM

Hi Michael!

 

Yes, you rightly understand my main idea - to make Atari modern replacement of keyboards.

Some of the Atari keyboards was really mechanical/capasitive construction and was very good keyboards like topre.

Sorry for offtopic.



#13 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:27 PM

Hi Michael!

 

Yes, you rightly understand my main idea - to make Atari modern replacement of keyboards.

Some of the Atari keyboards was really mechanical/capasitive construction and was very good keyboards like topre.

Sorry for offtopic.

 

Yes the idea of producing a new Atari specific keyboard is a bit off topic, but this doesn't stop it from being a cool idea. It would be great to have TOPRE type keyboard replacement for something like the 130XE, since the keyboard can be the weak link in that system. But perhaps it would be best to start a new topic to discuss this and other possibilities in further detail?

 

 

 

Definitely want at least two of these! This would be a good option for my 1200XL with the AtariMax 32-in-1 OS modification as well...

 

Do you have a picture of a 1200XL with the 32-in-1 OS installed? That would be of great benefit to me prior to doing PCB layout.

 

- Michael



#14 adam242 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:44 PM

Do you have a picture of a 1200XL with the 32-in-1 OS installed? That would be of great benefit to me prior to doing PCB layout.

 

- Michael

 

Here's a picture. Sorry my phone's camera isn't the best.

 

You can see that the Atarimax board would block a second POKEY to the right of the original. Your proposed board for the 400/800 would fit nicely. It might require leaving the RF shield off, but that's not an issue, as either the 32-in-1 or the Atarimax 256K board interferes with the shield also. This machine has been shield-less and trouble free for years.

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  • KIMG0721.JPG


#15 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:27 PM

 

Here's a picture. Sorry my phone's camera isn't the best.

 

You can see that the Atarimax board would block a second POKEY to the right of the original. Your proposed board for the 400/800 would fit nicely. It might require leaving the RF shield off, but that's not an issue, as either the 32-in-1 or the Atarimax 256K board interferes with the shield also. This machine has been shield-less and trouble free for years.

 

Yep no RF shield would be possible, and I do have concerns about accessing the stock keyboard connector. I have a 1200XL myself, so I'll play around with it and see what can be done. There's another reason it would be nice to have the 400/800 board configuration also work on the 1200XL, since the XL14 would have the same problem as the 32-in-1 OS board. They both compete with that space above Pokey.

 

Thanks for the pic  :)

 

-------

 

Well to kinda get things to take up less of a footprint, I also did an adjustment to the design and utilized two free pins on the keyboard connector for the audio outputs. This allowed J3 to be reduced from an 8 pin connector to a 4 pin one. The idea will be to also create a new mating connector interface board that will provide the audio as a 3.5 mm line level output stereo jack next to the dual PS/2 connectors.

 

New revision level 1.3 Main Board

qamsFq4.png

 

New Connector Interface Board

kF3ty6S.png

 

So imagine this board with a 3.5 mm Stereo Jack added.

 

7357110_orig.jpg

 

 

- Michael


Edited by mytekcontrols, Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:29 PM.


#16 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:48 PM

Opps small correction needed. When I re-positioned one of the transistors (Q3) on the schematic, it got flipped from what I wanted. The following schematic diagram has been corrected, and the revision level incremented. 

 

3N9tuyv.png

 

 

- Michael



#17 Kyle22 ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:17 PM

Any foreseeable issues using it on top of this FIFO? http://atariage.com/...o/#entry2889786



#18 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:02 PM

Any foreseeable issues using it on top of this FIFO? http://atariage.com/...o/#entry2889786

 

Other than the usual stacking height issue, it looks like it should fine. And I wouldn't think there would be any hardware/software incompatibility issues since it's focused on SIO not sound or keyboard. So are there a lot of these in the wild?

 

- Michael



#19 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:18 AM

I've pretty much completed the layout of the XL/XE version, and as usually happens there were a few tweaks that got made along the way. Things such as reassigning resistor network pin numbers for an easier layout and naming the individual connector pin assignments on the silk screen for the SIP headers (because the mating ribbon connector interface goes to a breakout board this wasn't required for it).

 

Latest Main Board Schematic

XZN4lab.png

 

 

Mechanical Board Layout

D2QhUyp.png

 

 

I'll be using a combination of machine pin sockets (for the dual Pokeys) and some pin headers to create the piggy-back to the original motherboard socket. This is very similar to what is done on Lotharek's Stereo Board.

 

4871172.jpg

 

 

Should be ready to send the PCB gerber files to OSH Park in a few days.

 

- Michael


Edited by mytekcontrols, Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:19 AM.


#20 Kyle22 ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:58 AM

 

. . . So are there a lot of these in the wild?

 

I have one, but I don't know how many others are out there.  You should ask Simius.

 

BTW, I love the FIFO device.  Just make sure to remove the SIO capacitors!



#21 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:44 PM

 

I have one, but I don't know how many others are out there.  You should ask Simius.

 

BTW, I love the FIFO device.  Just make sure to remove the SIO capacitors!

 

I was just curious. It doesn't really change anything with what I am doing, since there are only so many ways to implement something like this in order to make it fit into the multitude of Atari's. And as far as I can tell no matter the solution aside from a complete solder-in one, you are looking at stacking to utilize both devices (the FIFO and the Stereo Board).

 

Thanks for the feedback Kyle  :)

 

- Michael



#22 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:55 PM

Due to concerns about address bus loading, I changed one resistor value in my Micky-Mouse logic circuit for A4 (AND gate function created by R3 and D2).

Vv491PQ.png

 

 

Because of the nature of TTL, the high doesn't need to be very strong. So to be sure that the logic low signals originating from other chips don't have to fight too hard to do their part, a higher value was chosen for the series resistor.

 

 

 

To get a better feel for how big the new TK-II-STEREO ended up being take a look at this diagram.

 

pFJUDGb.png

 

Not bad considering that I had to cram in a few more functions and used thru-hole devices instead of SMD. Should still work on an XEGS as an internal upgrade, which has the tightest clearance due to the cartridge port plastic.

 

 

- Michael

 

 

EDIT: Still looking at creating a 2nd board version for 400/800 installations.


Edited by mytekcontrols, Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:58 PM.


#23 save2600 ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:01 PM

Looks like an awesome project!

Saw the subject heading and immediately thought of that scene in Boogie Nights... guy trying to sell a TKII mod in an 8-Track receiver. :rolling:

image.jpeg

#24 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:26 PM

Looks like an awesome project!

Saw the subject heading and immediately thought of that scene in Boogie Nights... guy trying to sell a TKII mod in an 8-Track receiver. :rolling:

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

Buck Swope was awesome.  If you don't get the TK-421 upgrade, it won't have bass.



#25 mytekcontrols OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:49 PM

Buck Swope was awesome.  If you don't get the TK-421 upgrade, it won't have bass.

 

"This is Hi-Fi..."

 

"Modified with the TK-421 takes it up another 3 or 4 Quads per channel"

 

 

Totally hilarious  :rolling:

 

The funny part is I've run across people like this in places like Radio Shack that don't know squat about electronics, but spew out a bunch of BS as if they do. I always feel sorry for the uneducated customer being talked into buying something that either won't work and/or way more expensive than what they need.

 

Now on the other hand if you buy the TK-II-STEREO, it'll give you another Quad's worth of voices for merely the now outrageous cost of another Pokey. But if you act right now, you'll be typing with both hands via the dual PS/2 gizmo that we'll through in absolutely for free. And hey don't forget that this is Hi-Fi as in the best Highest Fidelity you've ever heard. Plus with the Universal Switch modification as part of the complete package, you'll be changing from Stereo to Hi-Fi with a flick of a key.  ;-)

 

Disclaimer: to change channels by a key press requires a 3rd party device such as the U1MB.

 

- Michael


Edited by mytekcontrols, Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:05 PM.






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