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Atari CX-40 vs. Competition Pro


Mister-VCS

Which Joystick do you prefer for 2600 games?  

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Atari CX-40 standard controller or Competition Pro?


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I'm not sure we are thinking about the same thing here. Happ Competition joysticks are arcade parts that need some type of homemade enclosure to work, same with the Sanwas.

I dont mean this Happ Competition Joysticks, when i speak about Competition Pro Joysticks i mean the Atari/Amiga/C64 9Pin-Joysticks which was originaly sold be Dynamics GmbH (Hamburg) in the 80`s. Later, about 10 years ago, the factory Speedlink made a remake in two variants. A 9pin-model similar to the original ones and an USB-variant for PC which suffered from a delay in steering because the chip had a bad polling-rate. But there exist good 9Pin-to-USB adapters which dont have a perceptible delay like for example the adapters from Raphnet or Retro Donald.

 

I get the impression that the Competition Pro was an aftermarket third party joystick released back in the day, that could be plugged directly into an Atari 2600.

Exactly. This stick was the best known stick in Europe back in these days amongst C64, Atari-XL, Amiga, Atari-ST users. I just compared it to my original SANWA Arcade Stick, because HIZZY asked, if these Joysticks have a similar feeling when playing games.

 

My Atari joystick currently uses an Omni Stik 2 with a pull string mechanism to switch between 4-way and 8-way operation. It also has built in paddles among other enhancements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-shfA6l6RG0

Good and stable looking stick. It`s only a little bit BIG. :)

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I'm not sure we are thinking about the same thing here. Happ Competition joysticks are arcade parts that need some type of homemade enclosure to work, same with the Sanwas.

 

I get the impression that the Competition Pro was an aftermarket third party joystick released back in the day, that could be plugged directly into an Atari 2600.

 

My Atari joystick currently uses an Omni Stik 2 with a pull string mechanism to switch between 4-way and 8-way operation. It also has built in paddles among other enhancements.

 

If I can ask, where did you buy the omni stick 2?

 

Thanks!

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This is easy to answer, because the CX-40 is the original joystick for the Atari VCS2600 and normally people adore original-parts of their beloved consoles more than later bought parts from other factorys.

 

And these CX-40 joysticks was really good, back in the time when they came out. The Competition Pro`s dont exist at that time, they came about 5 years later. One reason more why they are not so much nostalgic than the CX-40. But the steering of the Competition Pro`s is more precise, they are more stable and also easier to repair than the CX-40. These are three good reasons to vote for the Competition Pro here.

 

I played Missile Command with both sticks last weekend - the steering of the CX-40 was more precise!

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"Steering" :rolling:

 

I do wonder if the emphatic naysayers have ever played with a nice CX-40 or not. One that's been gently used or like new, as all of mine are - even though they're over 30 years old. Or one replaced with the BEST Gold innards. I'm guessing not. ;)

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I dont mean this Happ Competition Joysticks, when i speak about Competition Pro Joysticks i mean the Atari/Amiga/C64 9Pin-Joysticks which was originaly sold be Dynamics GmbH (Hamburg) in the 80`s. Later, about 10 years ago, the factory Speedlink made a remake in two variants. A 9pin-model similar to the original ones and an USB-variant for PC which suffered from a delay in steering because the chip had a bad polling-rate. But there exist good 9Pin-to-USB adapters which dont have a perceptible delay like for example the adapters from Raphnet or Retro Donald.

 

 

Exactly. This stick was the best known stick in Europe back in these days amongst C64, Atari-XL, Amiga, Atari-ST users. I just compared it to my original SANWA Arcade Stick, because HIZZY asked, if these Joysticks have a similar feeling when playing games.

 

 

Good and stable looking stick. It`s only a little bit BIG. :)

Yeah, the Atari stick is nothing. Here's my first project. I like to build 'em big! :lol:

8513022754_b241ed9818_k_d.jpg

Gallery links in my sig. ;-)

 

 

If I can ask, where did you buy the omni stick 2?

 

Thanks!

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=383

 

It's a bit spendy, but totally worth it, because you need a good 4-way mode for arcade games that use it. I also have one in my Porta Pi MAME cab, but I can just lift the control panel to switch modes. Of course it required a bit of modding for the pulley system allowing the actuator to work in a sealed enclosure. Don't buy the "pull and twist" switchable Ultimark Mag-Stik Plus; they are garbage.

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"Steering" :rolling:

 

I do wonder if the emphatic naysayers have ever played with a nice CX-40 or not. One that's been gently used or like new, as all of mine are - even though they're over 30 years old. Or one replaced with the BEST Gold innards. I'm guessing not. ;)

 

Back then, when I got my 2600, there didn't exist any other joysticks. So I played for a few months with the CX-40. It was OK initially, but if became less and less precise. I had to stop playing longer sessions, because I had to push harder and harder. I got a new Quickshot (or two) as a present. Worked well initially but wore even faster than then CX-40. Then there was a joystick test in a then famous German video game magazine. The Compo Pro was the clear winner, so I looked out for it. Finally I found it in a shop, tested it briefly and payed almost a fortune.

 

Since then I never looked back to the CX-40.

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I played Missile Command with both sticks last weekend - the steering of the CX-40 was more precise!

Then you must have used a broken or faulty Competition Pro, because this is simply not possible. Especially not, when you open both sticks and look at the inside. How could a normal CX-40 should be more precise when you look how it`s built from the inside and compare this to a Competition Pro`s inner life? This is simply impossible. Really not one of my retro friends, and they are really alot, is your meaning in this question. I mean, it`s okay, when you like your CX-40 more, no problem. But telling that his steering is more precise is simply nonsens.

 

"Steering" :rolling:

I do wonder if the emphatic naysayers have ever played with a nice CX-40 or not. One that's been gently used or like new, as all of mine are - even though they're over 30 years old. Or one replaced with the BEST Gold innards. I'm guessing not. ;)

Of course, i have played with two NEW CX-40, because i get them with my new Atari VCS2600. They not bad at that time, but they have much more simple technique from the inside than a Competition Pro. The Competitions was the next generation of joysticks and they came out about five years later. I ask myself, if the people which really claims here, that a CX-40 is better than a Competition Pro, have ever opened both sticks and compared the inner life of both.

 

The Competitions Pro`s:

 

- have better technique at all and not so many parts which can easily break

- have much more stable parts (my two CX-40 died after two year although i used them normaly and not hard)

- are much easier to repair (simply change the defect microswitch in about two minutes)

- have much more precise steering qualitys and therefore they also famous on retro-computers which use 9pin

 

Why the Competition Pro sticks was and even now are so famous amongst european players? Because they was much better then all other available joysticks at that time when they came out in the middle of the 80`s.

 

Why all retrogames-magazines back in the 80`s gave the Competiton Pro Sticks top ratings for his perfect steering and stability? The CX-40 dont get this top ratings.

 

And why the Competition stick is so famous amongst C64, Amiga, Atari-ST players? Because it was the best joystick. I have never heard that a C64 or Amiga player use a CX-40 on his machines. So when the CX-40 is so fantastic and steers so precise, why it was not famous on other 9Pin-systems? :) I dont know one C64 or Amiga player in my big retro-clique that plays with a CX-40 today, but i know alot which use a Competition Pro Star or a Competition Pro Extra.

 

I am not a CX-40 hater and i understand the nostalgic feelings many people have for their original Atari2600 joysticks, but they can not beat a Competition Pro. Not in one single point.

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I am not a CX-40 hater and i understand the nostalgic feelings many people have for their original Atari2600 joysticks, but they can not beat a Competition Pro. Not in one single point.

100% agreed here (except for weight).

 

But I can imagine, that someone who had his first joystick contact with a CX-40 and (more carefully than I) used it for quite some time, got shaped by this joystick. For such a person, any joystick with a different responsiveness feels wrong.

 

That's fully subjective but very normal (e.g. I can't stand gamepads).

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Then you must have used a broken or faulty Competition Pro, because this is simply not possible. Especially not, when you open both sticks and look at the inside. How could a normal CX-40 should be more precise when you look how it`s built from the inside and compare this to a Competition Pro`s inner life? This is simply impossible. Really not one of my retro friends, and they are really alot, is your meaning in this question. I mean, it`s okay, when you like your CX-40 more, no problem. But telling that his steering is more precise is simply nonsens.

 

 

Of course, i have played with two NEW CX-40, because i get them with my new Atari VCS2600. They not bad at that time, but they have much more simple technique from the inside than a Competition Pro. The Competitions was the next generation of joysticks and they came out about five years later. I ask myself, if the people which really claims here, that a CX-40 is better than a Competition Pro, have ever opened both sticks and compared the inner life of both.

 

The Competitions Pro`s:

 

- have better technique at all and not so many parts which can easily break

- have much more stable parts (my two CX-40 died after two year although i used them normaly and not hard)

- are much easier to repair (simply change the defect microswitch in about two minutes)

- have much more precise steering qualitys and therefore they also famous on retro-computers which use 9pin

 

Why the Competition Pro sticks was and even now are so famous amongst european players? Because they was much better then all other available joysticks at that time when they came out in the middle of the 80`s.

 

Why all retrogames-magazines back in the 80`s gave the Competiton Pro Sticks top ratings for his perfect steering and stability? The CX-40 dont get this top ratings.

 

And why the Competition stick is so famous amongst C64, Amiga, Atari-ST players? Because it was the best joystick. I have never heard that a C64 or Amiga player use a CX-40 on his machines. So when the CX-40 is so fantastic and steers so precise, why it was not famous on other 9Pin-systems? :) I dont know one C64 or Amiga player in my big retro-clique that plays with a CX-40 today, but i know alot which use a Competition Pro Star or a Competition Pro Extra.

 

I am not a CX-40 hater and i understand the nostalgic feelings many people have for their original Atari2600 joysticks, but they can not beat a Competition Pro. Not in one single point.

You're responding to things nobody is saying, though. Nobody's saying the Comp Pro's design or build quality is inferior to the CX40's, because it isn't true.

 

And anyway, the question posed by the thread is not "which is built more solidly" or "which is higher in build quality," but rather, "which do we prefer." That's as much an emotional question as it is a practical one. Despite the Comp Pro's overwhelming superiority, some of us still like the CX40 better, for whatever reason. Maybe it feels better to us, maybe we like the shape better, maybe we like that the sticks are chewier ( :P ), whatever. So stop telling us why we're wrong or how we must not know any better. It isn't about right or wrong.

 

As for accuracy and precision, these are all 4-switch digital joysticks here, not some 360-degree analog thing. If you have accuracy problems with *any* digital joystick, it's probably you. All digital joysticks are fundamentally accurate. The differences are in things like throw, tactile response, parts used, etc.

 

I still don't buy the people-voted-CX40-because-that's-what-came-with-the-system argument. If people only wanted to use what came with their consoles, there would have been no market for third-party joysticks all (note that approximately a third of respondents here voted "other"). Europeans would be in love with the ProLine joysticks that they started getting with their 2600jr. systems in the mid '80s (or the CX40s they had earlier ;)). 7800 players today wouldn't be ceaselessly talking about building custom arcade controllers or Edladdin joysticks.

 

Commodores, Amigas, and Atari STs didn't come with joysticks--their users had to buy their own. And if you're going to buy your own, why not get a really good one? I would surmise that the dominance of computer platforms over game consoles in Europe played a role in the Comp Pro's popularity there, as did the regional marketing environments in Europe vs. North America (Suncom controllers were more popular among computer gamers here). In addition to its quality, of course.

 

On the console side, many of the people--possibly as many as a third, if this poll is any indication--who had CX40s with their Ataris as their default joysticks didn't see a reason to "upgrade." For them, it was a good controller, or at least good enough. For 2600 owners for whom CX40s weren't good enough, there was stuff like the Comp Pro.

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And anyway, the question posed by the thread is not "which is built more solidly" or "which is higher in build quality," but rather, "which do we prefer." That's as much an emotional question as it is a practical one.

The thread is called "Atari CX-40 VERSUS Competition Pro" and not called "which do you prefer". And versus means, which is the better stick, or not? And the arguments why one stick is better than another depends on "steering-precision" and "stability". In both the Competition Pro is much better. I wrote before, that i understand when people prefer their CX-40 sticks, but i can not be silent when people claim here, that the steering of a CX-40 is more precise than a Competition Pro`s, because it`s simply not true and the opposite is the case in reality.

 

Despite the Comp Pro's overwhelming superiority, some of us still like the CX40 better, for whatever reason. Maybe it feels better to us, maybe we like the shape better, maybe we like that the sticks are chewier ( :P ), whatever. So stop telling us why we're wrong or how we must not know any better. It isn't about right or wrong.

*lol*, that`s exactly what in meant with "nostalgic feelings" and that these feelings becloud the reality. Everybody can prefer what he wants we are free people. I don`t tell people, which stick they should use, everybody can use the stick he wants. You can put your beloved CX-40 to bed with you in the evening, no problem. But that changes not the facts, that the Competition Pro is a better stick in nearly every aspect, except weight what Thomas said. :) And when a thread is called "versus" why not telling, when one stick is technically better than the other? Or should i not tell this, because the CX-40 are the beloved originals which nobody should criticize?

 

Problem with such threads really is the emotional feeling that people have to their original parts. You wrote, this is not true, but you can see that it is. When somebody criticize the original sticks, then people defend these sticks and claims they was so good and so precise. But i understand this, here are alot of collectors and fans and that a third-party joystick is better is maybe not easy to absorb. :) Nevertheless i say again, that also the CX-40 was a good stick at the time he came on the market.

 

As for accuracy and precision, these are all 4-switch digital joysticks here, not some 360-degree analog thing. If you have accuracy problems with *any* digital joystick, it's probably you. All digital joysticks are fundamentally accurate. The differences are in things like throw, tactile response, parts used, etc.

No it`s not probably only me :) that`s simply not true at all. The reality was exactly like Thomas wrote in this sentences:

 

"""So I played for a few months with the CX-40. It was OK initially, but if became less and less precise. I had to stop playing longer sessions, because I had to push harder and harder."""

 

That`s exactly what happens to EVERY CX-40 joystick which was in heavy use for about one or two years. It happens to my two CX-40 and to all CX-40 from my friends too. At the end the player must push totaly hard in a direction until the stick reacts. You can disassemble the CX-40 then and clean everything. After this, when you are lucky the stick worked again for some weeks but then the problem was there again and this time even more worse. Fact is, such a CX-40 stick will never work like a new CX-40 again, it was obsolete and which player wants to disassemble his stick every week? This was a big weakness of the CX-40 and this "i had to push harder and harder" problem, comes from the method how the CX-40 is built up inside.

 

I still don't buy the people-voted-CX40-because-that's-what-came-with-the-system argument. If people only wanted to use what came with their consoles, there would have been no market for third-party joysticks all (note that approximately a third of respondents here voted "other").

It`s normally that all fans of a brand, and Atari is a famous brand, more adore original parts than third-party-products. And this adoration has influence on the voting. This is normal or not? Make a thread here in the forum and call him "Atari 2600 Versus Playstation 4". You can be sure, that alot more people then vote for the Atari2600 (maybe i would also do this) and not for the technically much better Playstation 4. Why these people would do this, because they fans of the Atari retro consoles, like i am also. Exactly this is the reason, why the most people here voted for the CX-40.

 

Europeans would be in love with the ProLine joysticks that they started getting with their 2600jr. systems in the mid '80s (or the CX40s they had earlier ;)).

Haha, the Proline stick. No no no!!! :) All of my friends which had a Atari2600 Junior, later looked for CX-40 sticks instead of the bad ProLine joysticks that came with their console. People are not stupid, everybody could feel that the CX-40 was better than a Proline stick.

 

But that`s not a good comparison, because the CX-40 sticks was on the market for years, when Atari brought a newer, but worse stick on the market. So nobody was in love with this joystick, because everybody asked himself, why making a worse stick as successor of a good one? Many people liked the CX-40, because at that time, when the CX-40 came out, it was one of the best available joysticks for home-gaming. This cannot be denied. Therefore i wrote before, it was a good stick at that time. But about five years later, the Competition Pro sticks came on the market and then the most people never looked back at sticks like the CX-40 or many other sticks. They prefered the Competitions from this point on. Here in Germany nearly all my friends changed to the Competition Pro Sticks.

 

I would surmise that the dominance of computer platforms over game consoles in Europe played a role in the Comp Pro's popularity there, as did the regional marketing environments in Europe vs. North America (Suncom controllers were more popular among computer gamers here). In addition to its quality, of course.

Of course this coheres. Atari 800XL, C-64, Amiga, Atari-ST all these homecomputers use the 9Pin-Connector and only for this connector, the Competition Pro`s was available. Console-players from the Master-System and NES generation, was used to play with gamepads and they had not so much interest in buying a joystick, because they was not used to it. Also Competition Pro`s was not available with other connectors and on the Master-System, which also use 9Pin, many games use 2 different buttons, so it also maked no sense. The NES also had big success in Europe, but the Competition could not be connected there. The C64 played a dominant role in Europe in the middle of the 80`s, at least in Germany and on this computer the most Competition Pro`s was used then.

 

On the console side, many of the people--possibly as many as a third, if this poll is any indication--who had CX40s with their Ataris as their default joysticks didn't see a reason to "upgrade." For them, it was a good controller, or at least good enough. For 2600 owners for whom CX40s weren't good enough, there was stuff like the Comp Pro.

They only see no reason to upgrade, because the first five years when the Atari2600 was out, there simply was no better joystick than the CX-40 available. And 5 years later, when the Competition Pro sticks was on the market, many people sadly stopped playing or selling their Atari2600 because newer gaming-hardware was dominating the market. But in Germany, these people who had newer consoles or computers but still also playing on their Atari2600 (like myself for example), then bought Competition Pro sticks for their C64 or Atari-XL. The most of these people then also used their Competition Pro`s on their Atari2600 and then suddenly they had a completely new gaming-feeling. I remember when some friends came to my house the day after i bought my first "Competition Pro 5000" and then we played C64 and later Atari2600 with this stick. Then i heared sentences like: "whoa, really good stick, steers better then my original sticks" and later they all bought Competition Pro`s. I and also my friends raised their highscores in nearly all Atari2600 games when we used a Competition Pro or a stick similar to this (Zip Stick for example) instead of the CX-40. Believe me, this happens to many other players too. Edited by AW127
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The thread is called "Atari CX-40 VERSUS Competition Pro" and not called "which do you prefer".

"Poll: Which Joystick do you prefer for 2600 games? (34 member(s) have cast votes)"

 

 

*lol*, that`s exactly what in meant with "nostalgic feelings" and that these feelings becloud the reality. Everybody can prefer what he wants we are free people. I don`t tell people, which stick they should use, everybody can use the stick he wants. You can put your beloved CX-40 to bed with you in the evening, no problem. But that changes not the facts, that the Competition Pro is a better stick in nearly every aspect, except weight what Thomas said. :) And when a thread is called "versus" why not telling, when one stick is technically better than the other? Or should i not tell this, because the CX-40 are the beloved originals which nobody should criticize?

 

Problem with such threads really is the emotional feeling that people have to their original parts. You wrote, this is not true, but you can see that it is. When somebody criticize the original sticks, then people defend these sticks and claims they was so good and so precise. But i understand this, here are alot of collectors and fans and that a third-party joystick is better is maybe not easy to absorb. :) Nevertheless i say again, that also the CX-40 was a good stick at the time he came on the market.

Again, to use myself as an example: I didn't grow up with the Atari 2600. It was dead and buried by the time I'd even heard of it. My first consoles were the Nintendo and the Genesis. D-Pads had already taken over. How can my preference for the CX40 be, by definition, nostalgic? How do you account for me? I don't deny that some of the CX40 votes here could well have been nostalgically induced, but I think you overstate its influence, (for the reasons I stated in my previous post) as well as ignore that it could apply to the Comp Pro as well. You seem quite emotionally attached to the Comp Pro; after all, it's what you used and remember fondly from the '80s and '90s, yes? Would you reject a suggestion that you prefer it for nostalgic reasons? Of course you would.

 

Don't misconstrue my position. I'm not defending the CX40 itself so much as I am defending the validity of preferring it, irrational as it may be to you. If you reread my posts, you'll see that I even said that the Comp Pro was more robust, reliable, and built better. That can't be denied, and no one ever was.

 

Meanwhile, you seem to reject any suggestion that the CX40 has merits of its own, or that anyone would use it for any reason other than nostalgia. I find this dismissive and patronizing.

 

No it`s not probably only me :) that`s simply not true at all. The reality was exactly like Thomas wrote in this sentences:

 

"""So I played for a few months with the CX-40. It was OK initially, but if became less and less precise. I had to stop playing longer sessions, because I had to push harder and harder."""

 

That`s exactly what happens to EVERY CX-40 joystick which was in heavy use for about one or two years. It happens to my two CX-40 and to all CX-40 from my friends too. At the end the player must push totaly hard in a direction until the stick reacts. You can disassemble the CX-40 then and clean everything. After this, when you are lucky the stick worked again for some weeks but then the problem was there again and this time even more worse. Fact is, such a CX-40 stick will never work like a new CX-40 again, it was obsolete and which player wants to disassemble his stick every week? This was a big weakness of the CX-40 and this "i had to push harder and harder" problem, comes from the method how the CX-40 is built up inside.

What you are describing is responsiveness, not accuracy. In which case, yes, obviously CX40s or Gemsticks or any joystick made with plastic components and dome switches can wear out. Again, if you reread my post, you'll see that I noted the Comp Pro's superior build quality.

 

However, I have to question what people were doing to their CX40s to be breaking them all the time. They're not made of glass. I've been using the same ones for 15 years and have never had a problem with them, but I've certainly encountered my share of broken ones (many with chewed sticks! :skull: ).

 

They only see no reason to upgrade, because the first five years when the Atari2600 was out, there simply was no better joystick than the CX-40 available. And 5 years later, when the Competition Pro sticks was on the market, many people sadly stopped playing or selling their Atari2600 because newer gaming-hardware was dominating the market.

You seem to be forgetting that nearly 60% here voted for Comp Pro or Other. That's more than half--in a poll on AtariAge, a place where nostalgia (and therefore the CX40, according to you) would be expected to rule--who prefer to play 2600 games with third-party joysticks, which as you said didn't appear until people were supposed to have moved on from the 2600. (Your timeline is off, though; on the 2600's fifth anniversary, it was 1982. Not exactly a time when people were mothballing their 2600s.) Just cruise eBay for Atari 2600 sets and see how many of them come with third-party joysticks. Quite a few of them, I'd wager.

 

The other 40% saw those other joysticks and still rolled with the CX40 anyway. There are tangible attributes of it that some people prefer. (Okay, now I'm defending the CX40. :P )

 

 

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Then you must have used a broken or faulty Competition Pro, because this is simply not possible. Especially not, when you open both sticks and look at the inside. How could a normal CX-40 should be more precise when you look how it`s built from the inside and compare this to a Competition Pro`s inner life? This is simply impossible. Really not one of my retro friends, and they are really alot, is your meaning in this question. I mean, it`s okay, when you like your CX-40 more, no problem. But telling that his steering is more precise is simply nonsens.

It is possible.

Both joysticks are not broken.

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However, I have to question what people were doing to their CX40s to be breaking them all the time. They're not made of glass. I've been using the same ones for 15 years and have never had a problem with them, but I've certainly encountered my share of broken ones (many with chewed sticks! :skull: ).

The other 40% saw those other joysticks and still rolled with the CX40 anyway. There are tangible attributes of it that some people prefer. (Okay, now I'm defending the CX40. :P )

 

 

 

I have one CX-40 which I use since 1983 or 1984 without any problems. OK, the CX-40 was not made for Decathlon ;) .

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Again, to use myself as an example: I didn't grow up with the Atari 2600. It was dead and buried by the time I'd even heard of it. My first consoles were the Nintendo and the Genesis. D-Pads had already taken over. How can my preference for the CX40 be, by definition, nostalgic?

Okay, let me ask you in a different way. Please tell me the real advantages of the CX-40 that make it the superior joystick for you? What exactly is better on the CX-40, that you come to the conclusion that you can play better with this stick than with a Competition Pro.

 

You seem quite emotionally attached to the Comp Pro; after all, it's what you used and remember fondly from the '80s and '90s, yes? Would you reject a suggestion that you prefer it for nostalgic reasons? Of course you would.

I am not personally attached to the Competition Pro and i am not material involved on the sales of this stick (sadly not) :) . But i am personally attached, when i read things that turn facts upside down, like "steering of the CX-40 is more precise than Competition Pro ...". Then i am really personally attached, because when newbies, which don`t knew both sticks, read such things they could be set to the wrong track. A forum should give true informations i think.

 

Don't misconstrue my position. I'm not defending the CX40 itself so much as I am defending the validity of preferring it, irrational as it may be to you. If you reread my posts, you'll see that I even said that the Comp Pro was more robust, reliable, and built better. That can't be denied, and no one ever was. Meanwhile, you seem to reject any suggestion that the CX40 has merits of its own, or that anyone would use it for any reason other than nostalgia. I find this dismissive and patronizing.

How often i have written that the CX-40 was a good stick? 5 times or 6 times or even more often? How often should i repeat this? I said it was a good stick and one of the best at the time when it comes out. But later much better sticks come out and finding a real merit of the CX-40 to a Competition Pro is very difficult for me. In which point exactly should it be better? Handling - No. Stability - No. Steering - No. Easy repairing - No. Casing or Shaft form - No. I really don`t see a single merit. But maybe other people find a merit, okay. I can not find one.

 

And i must ask again - when the CX-40 would have had some important merits over a Competition Pro or over a Zip Stick for example, why the most computer-users (C64, Atari and so on) back in the days don`t use him? The CX-40 was still available in many german stores, even at the time when the C64 appeared on the market, but most users here in Germany don`t buy one for their computers. They prefered other sticks and that must have a reason, or not? This means not, that i want to tell people what stick they should use. Anybody can use what he prefers and when some people prefers CX-40 it`s also okay.

 

But you can not bring me to the point that i say here, the CX-40 is at the same level than a Competition Pro and i dont tell this because i am a fan of the Competition Pro, i tell this because i have directly compared both sticks and i see only advantages and no disadvantage.

 

However, I have to question what people were doing to their CX40s to be breaking them all the time. They're not made of glass. I've been using the same ones for 15 years and have never had a problem with them, but I've certainly encountered my share of broken ones (many with chewed sticks! :skull: ).

Many many many CX-40 had exactly the problem i described before. After heavy use for about one year (and with "heavy use" i dont mean bad treatment, i mean "often used") the player must steer harder and harder until the stick react. This happens to all CX-40 sticks in my environment back in the days. About ten friends of me had a Atari2600 and most of them had two CX-40. This makes about twenty CX-40 sticks in my direct environment. :) To all and really to all this sticks the "user must push harder and harder until stick reacts" thing happened in a period of about 2 years after they are bought. So when this is not a weak point of the CX-40, what then i ask myself what is a weak point then? When you say your CX-40 is 15 years old without any problem then you either have not played with it for hours every day in that many years, or you have repaired and cleaned the stick multiple and multiple times. Otherwise your CX-40 must be a special series with more stable parts, which i can not believe exists. ;)

 

You seem to be forgetting that nearly 60% here voted for Comp Pro or Other. That's more than half--in a poll on AtariAge, a place where nostalgia (and therefore the CX40, according to you) would be expected to rule--who prefer to play 2600 games with third-party joysticks, which as you said didn't appear until people were supposed to have moved on from the 2600. (Your timeline is off, though; on the 2600's fifth anniversary, it was 1982. Not exactly a time when people were mothballing their 2600s.) Just cruise eBay for Atari 2600 sets and see how many of them come with third-party joysticks. Quite a few of them, I'd wager.

The other 40% saw those other joysticks and still rolled with the CX40 anyway. There are tangible attributes of it that some people prefer. (Okay, now I'm defending the CX40. :P )

 

Don`t know why you say 1982 here? The factory Dynamics Marketing GmbH (Hamburg) began selling the "Competition Pro 5000" (which was the first model) in the middle of the 80`s. And it needs one or two years more until the stick was really famous and widespread. And until middle of the 80`s the most Atari2600 users in Europe already have switched over to the C64 or other 8bit systems. And i can not imagine that it was different in the USA or other countries outside Europe. Also there the prime of the Atari2600 was long over then.

 

Or you say 1982, because i wrote "the Competition Pro comes five years later" than the CX-40? In Europe this was exactly the case, because while the Atari2600 was available since 1977 in the USA, it comes to Europe only in the year 1980. And then you can count about five years later until the Competition Pro comes.

 

And when you bring Ebay here as an example then it`s totaly clear that "selling a complete set", which means "with the original controllers" will bring more money for the sellers, than selling it with third party controllers even when they are better for playing. So this means absolutely nothing about the quality point of the original sticks. People want complete sets, this is the point here on Ebay. Some of my friends which sold their Atari2600 (and later regret it by the way) have played all the time with Competition Pro`s since they appeared, but when they later sold their Atari2600, they sold it with the original controllers of course. You can demand a higher price then and do you know why? Because of the "nostalgic feelings", which many collectors have for the original parts. Haha, and now we back at this nostalgic point again. :)

 

 

No need to argue about which stick people want to use, everybody can use the stick he prefers. I first read the "thread titel" and there is written "VERSUS". My first post here compares both sticks and i come to the clear result that the Competition Pro is better in every single point. But when the poll is "which stick you prefer" than everybody can use the stick he wants of course. We are not in North Korea, where the government would tell people which stick they should use. *lol* :)

Edited by AW127
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As for accuracy and precision, these are all 4-switch digital joysticks here, not some 360-degree analog thing. If you have accuracy problems with *any* digital joystick, it's probably you. All digital joysticks are fundamentally accurate. The differences are in things like throw, tactile response, parts used, etc.

 

Somebody doesn't know their Joysticks. Even among pro quality arcade parts, there are vastly different feels between models. Joysticks can be 8-way or 4-way, having round, square, octagon, or diamond baffles. A joystick that works well for pacman may be rubbish for fighting, whereas a good stick for Shmups may be horrible for Pacman. There's a ton of variances regarding things like spring tension, throw distance, and actuation distance. Diagonals may be too easy to hit on one model, too hard to reach on another. Then playing styles. Do you "ride the gate" with a heavy hand or gently tilt the JS with feather-like pressure to actuate? I dare you to compare a US style Happ Competition to a Japan style Sanwa or Semitsu. Both are decent joysticks but they have totally different feel.

 

Many cheap vintage joysticks like the CX-40 tend to be too stiff. I got NIB 2600 joysticks for my Atari in 2012. They were Vader models I believe, cast from the same molds as earlier models but without the red/orange paint baked in. They are stiff and unweildy, and one of them cracked one night while I was playing it. It still works but now makes an annoying "crunching" sound whenever a certain direction is pressed. The CX-40 hurt my hands after playing, and I quickly sought to build my own larger scale solution modeled after the originals using plywood and arcade parts. Not gonna risk carpal tunnel for that schyte.

 

And the wired Flashback joysticks are a marked improvement, but probably nowhere near as good as the Wicos or Comp Pros people rave about. Well I've never tried either as those are getting pricey and hard to find now. Some still swear by the old CX-40 and that's fine. But to declare all joysticks the same simply because they have 4 internal switches or contact actuations shows that you haven't tried different stuff. Just because something "works" does not make it ideal for all players.

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Okay, let me ask you in a different way. Please tell me the real advantages of the CX-40 that make it the superior joystick for you? What exactly is better on the CX-40, that you come to the conclusion that you can play better with this stick than with a Competition Pro.

I like its form factor. It feels better in my hand. I like the throw of the stick--firm, but not stiff, rather broken in like a good pair of jeans. It has the right amount of tactile feedback for my taste. It's responsive. It says "top" on it so I know which way to orient it. :P

 

Note that I never said I play better with a CX40 than a Comp Pro. However, I'll say now that I don't play worse. Which, ipso facto, means the Comp Pro isn't "better" for me. I play the same with both, but I just prefer the feel of the CX40. Sorry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

How often i have written that the CX-40 was a good stick? 5 times or 6 times or even more often? How often should i repeat this? I said it was a good stick and one of the best at the time when it comes out. But later much better sticks come out and finding a real merit of the CX-40 to a Competition Pro is very difficult for me. In which point exactly should it be better? Handling - No. Stability - No. Steering - No. Easy repairing - No. Casing or Shaft form - No. I really don`t see a single merit. But maybe other people find a merit, okay. I can not find one.

You've written that it was a good stick in the absence of better alternatives. That's not the same thing as saying it's a good stick. Though I don't know why you would anyway, since you clearly don't think it's a good stick. :P Which is fine.

 

But this isn't about your opinion of the CX40. It's your assertion that people who use it only do so out of nostalgia that doesn't wash for me.

 

And i must ask again - when the CX-40 would have had some important merits over a Competition Pro or over a Zip Stick for example, why the most computer-users (C64, Atari and so on) back in the days don`t use him? The CX-40 was still available in many german stores, even at the time when the C64 appeared on the market, but most users here in Germany don`t buy one for their computers. They prefered other sticks and that must have a reason, or not? This means not, that i want to tell people what stick they should use. Anybody can use what he prefers and when some people prefers CX-40 it`s also okay.

We've covered this already. I'll give you the same response I gave you the first time:

 

 

Commodores, Amigas, and Atari STs didn't come with joysticks--their users had to buy their own. And if you're going to buy your own, why not get a really good one? I would surmise that the dominance of computer platforms over game consoles in Europe played a role in the Comp Pro's popularity there, as did the regional marketing environments in Europe vs. North America (Suncom controllers were more popular among computer gamers here). In addition to its quality, of course.

 

Note that I'm actually on your side on this one.

But you can not bring me to the point that i say here, the CX-40 is at the same level than a Competition Pro and i dont tell this because i am a fan of the Competition Pro, i tell this because i have directly compared both sticks and i see only advantages and no disadvantage.

I don't want to. Your reasons for preferring the Comp Pro are sensible and, believe it or not, I respect them.

 

Many many many CX-40 had exactly the problem i described before. After heavy use for about one year (and with "heavy use" i dont mean bad treatment, i mean "often used") the player must steer harder and harder until the stick react. This happens to all CX-40 sticks in my environment back in the days. About ten friends of me had a Atari2600 and most of them had two CX-40. This makes about twenty CX-40 sticks in my direct environment. :) To all and really to all this sticks the "user must push harder and harder until stick reacts" thing happened in a period of about 2 years after they are bought. So when this is not a weak point of the CX-40, what then i ask myself what is a weak point then? When you say your CX-40 is 15 years old without any problem then you either have not played with it for hours every day in that many years, or you have repaired and cleaned the stick multiple and multiple times. Otherwise your CX-40 must be a special series with more stable parts, which i can not believe exists. ;)

Then don't. I don't know what else I can tell you.

 

And when you bring Ebay here as an example then it`s totaly clear that "selling a complete set", which means "with the original controllers" will bring more money for the sellers, than selling it with third party controllers even when they are better for playing. So this means absolutely nothing about the quality point of the original sticks. People want complete sets, this is the point here on Ebay. Some of my friends which sold their Atari2600 (and later regret it by the way) have played all the time with Competition Pro`s since they appeared, but when they later sold their Atari2600, they sold it with the original controllers of course. You can demand a higher price then and do you know why? Because of the "nostalgic feelings", which many collectors have for the original parts. Haha, and now we back at this nostalgic point again. :)

I think you misunderstand. I referenced eBay to illustrate how popular third-party controllers were since they can be found in, like, every third console lot.

 

But that was predicated on the assumption "five years later" meant 1982, but you meant 1985.

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Somebody doesn't know their Joysticks. Even among pro quality arcade parts, there are vastly different feels between models. Joysticks can be 8-way or 4-way, having round, square, octagon, or diamond baffles. A joystick that works well for pacman may be rubbish for fighting, whereas a good stick for Shmups may be horrible for Pacman. There's a ton of variances regarding things like spring tension, throw distance, and actuation distance. Diagonals may be too easy to hit on one model, too hard to reach on another. Then playing styles. Do you "ride the gate" with a heavy hand or gently tilt the JS with feather-like pressure to actuate? I dare you to compare a US style Happ Competition to a Japan style Sanwa or Semitsu. Both are decent joysticks but they have totally different feel.

Not sure what you're trying to call me out on here. Glossing over the swipe at my credibility (what the hell, bro?), you're saying the same thing I was, which is that the differences are mainly design- or component-driven ("things like throw, tactile response, parts used, etc").

 

Fundamentally--that's the key word here, and the word I used in the post you quoted--all digital joysticks work the same way. It doesn't matter what buttons or restrictor gates or baffles or switches or springs or whatever you want to use. Fundamentally they all boil down to four switches. It's all that other stuff that makes the difference, and naturally you would want to use different controllers for the games they were designed or optimized for. The only properly-working digital controller I've used that gave me genuine trouble with directional accuracy is the Sega Master System D-pad (what was Sega thinking with that square pad?).

 

Many cheap vintage joysticks like the CX-40 tend to be too stiff. I got NIB 2600 joysticks for my Atari in 2012. They were Vader models I believe, cast from the same molds as earlier models but without the red/orange paint baked in. They are stiff and unweildy, and one of them cracked one night while I was playing it. It still works but now makes an annoying "crunching" sound whenever a certain direction is pressed. The CX-40 hurt my hands after playing, and I quickly sought to build my own larger scale solution modeled after the originals using plywood and arcade parts. Not gonna risk carpal tunnel for that schyte.

The later versions of the CX40 are kinda not great, I agree. I had a NIB one around 10 years ago that was stiff as hell. I went back to my old ones pretty much immediately.

 

And the wired Flashback joysticks are a marked improvement, but probably nowhere near as good as the Wicos or Comp Pros people rave about. Well I've never tried either as those are getting pricey and hard to find now.

Wicos and Comp Pros are better, of course. FB sticks are alright but kind of mushy thanks to their rubber carbon "springs."

 

Some still swear by the old CX-40 and that's fine. But to declare all joysticks the same simply because they have 4 internal switches or contact actuations shows that you haven't tried different stuff.

That's not what I meant, which would be clear if you'd read the posts immediately following the one you're trying to bust me out on. ;) I was responding to AW127's point about accuracy, and it turned out he was talking about responsiveness. In which case, yeah, the degrees of variation can be wild.

 

As far as what I've tried, here's a sampling of the joysticks I've owned, used, and/or repaired:

CX10

CX40

Competition Pro

Gemstick

Kraft Ace

Kraft Mazemaster

SlikStik

Starfighter

Video Arcade II controller

Dual Command

TAC-2

TAC-3

TAC-30

Wico Bat

Wico Boss

Wico Black Max

Pointmaster

Epyx 500XJ / Konix

Sega Genesis Arcade Power Stick

Zircon Video Command

Champ

Mini Champ

Triga Command

Archer/Quickshot I

Quickshot 2

CX78 joypad

ProLine

RGA wireless

Starplex

VIC-20 joystick

Amiga Powerstick

Turbo Junior

 

Those are the ones I can think of, for Atari/Commodore alone. Can't remember all of them after almost 20 years, though. Any more nonsense I can entertain for you? ;)

 

Just because something "works" does not make it ideal for all players.

If only someone had actually said that. :P

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The later versions of the CX40 are kinda not great, I agree. I had a NIB one around 10 years ago that was stiff as hell. I went back to my old ones pretty much immediately.

Maybe you've got a point. So avoid CX-40s without paint?

 

Wicos and Comp Pros are better, of course. FB sticks are alright but kind of mushy thanks to their rubber carbon "springs."

Silicone membranes are infinitely better than dome switches.

 

If only someone had actually said that. :P

I just did! ;-)
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Maybe you've got a point. So avoid CX-40s without paint?

 

Eh, hard to say. Probably. :-D I've got a couple that aren't too bad; they feel a lot like my good orange-ringed set. Then there are others that feel like the sticks aren't supposed to move at all, which I'm guessing were made much later in the system's life (late '80s/early '90s?). Probably best to just say "screw it" and go after a different controller, unless you want to mod it or something. :)

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Eh, hard to say. Probably. :-D I've got a couple that aren't too bad; they feel a lot like my good orange-ringed set. Then there are others that feel like the sticks aren't supposed to move at all, which I'm guessing were made much later in the system's life (late '80s/early '90s?). Probably best to just say "screw it" and go after a different controller, unless you want to mod it or something. :)

All I know is the New In Box joysticks I got in 2012 were horrid. They are definitely not repros as the PCB says Atari printed on them. Game-X-Change gets CX-40s in from time to time but I never picked any up. The FB2 joysticks are semi-decent but I've got a homemade 8x8x4 inch joystick with built in paddles so I really don't need anything else. I've also got a custom Happ 7800 joystick and an NES pad to 7800 conversion so I'm good.
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