FAQ/Beginner's Guide to the C64?

[Smokeless Joe]

I'm thinking of getting a C64, but I've never owned one. Is there a FAQ or beginner's guide anywhere?

 

Specifically, I'd like to know:

 

Is there a trusted source for purchasing hardware/software/accessories, like Best Computing for the Atari?

 

What are the popular add-on/upgrades, modern or otherwise? I'm thinking most of storage solutions (CF/SD readers) but also video upgrades or accelerators.

 

Thanks!

[carlsson]

I'm unsure if there is a FAQ on these particular questions, but I can try to answer.

 

There may or may not exist one central reseller, but there are a couple of well respected ones selling their own products. Since you're in the USA, one of the first ones that come to my mind is RETRO Innovations run by Jim Brain: http://store.go4retro.com/which though carries his own products.

 

SD card readers come in two or three flavors:

 

* The SD2IEC compatible series, of which there are several different manufacturers including uIEC/SD on the site above. These range about $50-60, and handle disk images of single filed programs and multi loading programs using the default loader. However as you might know, the 1541 floppy disk is an "intelligent" device with its own CPU, RAM and I/O which means it partly can be reprogrammed to be used with custom fastloaders. The SD2IEC series don't have the capacity to emulate this, so any program (usually demos or disk images of original games) that tries to do so likely will fail to load.

 

* The UK1541, which is a mid-priced product (about 55 Euros in earlier batches) that is low in availability and may have a long waiting list. It though has a more thorough drive emulation and a LCD display. A new batch is expected this autumn, but I don't know if it already is fully booked.

 

* The 1541 Ultimate II, which is a top of the line product (about 150 Euros). It does a lot more than being a SD card reader, as it also emulates cartridges, RAM expansion, network capacity and other things I have omitted. However I just read that item is going out of production due to cost increases, and the new product will be called 1541 Ultimate II+ to be launched in August. Again, despite the price tag this is a product with a waiting list. Since you're still thinking of getting a C64, perhaps this is not the first product you'd buy.

 

When it comes to video upgrades, I can't think of many. There were some 80 column cartridges using an external video generator but those would only display text and had a very limited following. There also is the Turbo Chameleon 64 cartridge (250 Euros, but currently out of stock), which contains a FPGA to emulate the VIC-II chip (and IIRC the entire C64 except for the SID chip) in order to output a VGA signal. The Chameleon also works as a SD card reader and cartridge emulator, RAM expansion, PS/2 keyboard connector, and has a Turbo mode for acceleration.

 

Of course the C64DTV joystick could be mentioned in this context, as it had an updated DTV mode which had a limited following, but that is a different product and not a C64 upgrade. There also was the C128 which has a separate 80 column mode, but again this is not what I would call video upgrade as doesn't superset the VIC-II, but instead complements it.

 

Accelerators may be a bit more common. I know the Germans experimented with 2-8 MHz 6510 designs already back in the 80's, but again it never was widespread. There is also the SuperCPU which contains a 20 MHz 65816. It is mighty expensive, hard to locate one but has a little following.

 

I mentioned RAM expansion a few times above. Those are emulated REU, geoRAM and RamLink solutions. While the C64 can only address 64K at a time, you can bank switch memory segments just like on most other computers. The GEOS operating system takes advantage of a REU or geoRAM, some copying programs do too and there may be additional uses but generally it is not an important addition.

 

I also mentioned cartridge emulation, meaning that one of the more advanced cartridges like the 1541 Ultimate or Turbo Chameleon can mount various cartridge images and boot those like the actual cartridge. There are other cartridges that do the same, like the EasyFlash series which though don't have any SD function, just acts like a reflashable cartridge. Some of the available cartridge images are utility/freezer cartridges like Action Replay, The Final Cartridge and others. Those contain their own fastloaders, of which some actually are supported even by the SD2IEC type of devices discussed above, meaning that an entry level solution could be a SD2IEC compatible device and a genuine freezer cartridge. Even the Epyx FastLoad is supported.

Edited July 25, 2016 by carlsson

[nicholas042893]

I'm thinking of getting a C64, but I've never owned one. Is there a FAQ or beginner's guide anywhere?

 

Specifically, I'd like to know:

 

Is there a trusted source for purchasing hardware/software/accessories, like Best Computing for the Atari?

 

What are the popular add-on/upgrades, modern or otherwise? I'm thinking most of storage solutions (CF/SD readers) but also video upgrades or accelerators.

 

Thanks!

 

A trusted source for buying what you need all in one stop? Hard to say from here in the US. There's international trading/selling like Amibay, but the C64 was so popular here in N.A. that using a PAL unit is more trouble than it's worth to start out with. I've used eBay for general and usually easy to find things like mice, modems, drives, etc. I always make sure that if the item condition says "new" or "used" never "--" because there is an eBay guarantee that if the item does not arrive in the condition listed you can get your money back ( all NEW and USED items are to be guaranteed working condition according to policy, so avoid sellers who list something as "used" and then write "sold untested, i dunno if it actually works but not my problem" because they are difficult to deal with when something isn't right) Commodore stuff is too plentiful and cheap to take chances like that. You'd still get your money back if an item arrives broken or not working, and it's easy, but the seller won't usually like it if they're not the type to take responsibility for what they're selling.

 

www.oldsoftware.com is a source for some things Commodore like hardware and software, but generally sold out on a lot and not good for finding modern updgrades.

 

Just some tips,

 

When you buy your C64 make sure the power supply looks good, or get a new, replacement for it. ( like this http://en.retrogamesupply.com/collections/commodore/products/power-supply-for-commodore-64 )

The original power supplies ARE flaky as all get out and not easily repairable because of the way they're made. They're awful and some of them are worse than others, but generally you should be okay, but if your system ever stops working properly the power supply is usually the first thing to cause any trouble I've learned!! Really I thought my C64c was dead until I changed power supplies and found out the reason BASIC wasn't loading up was just bad power that had been working for a long time til now.

 

And I've always liked the C64c model for its aesthetics but functionally there won't be a difference.

 

You can easily just hook it up to a TV with an RF adapter, but the composite cable was always the better way to avoid snowy pictures and get better sound with your CRT TV or monitor with this input, like the Commodore monitors.

(cable like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Commodore-Video-A-V-Cable-Composite-Video-Audio-VIC-20-C-64-5pin-/232022758200?hash=item3605a25338:m:mFvB1Am8mNNQj9zgxv7mcNQ)

 

Otherwise, there are ways of using video converter boxes just to take the RF or composite and output VGA, etc. for modern monitors if a TV isn't your style. Searching this topic will give you tons of results. This won't necessarily improve resolution or anything crazy, but hooking your C64 up to an HDTV with analog composite cables or RF will likely lead to fuzzy graphics and bad color and even bad sound without a converter. RF output has been a horrible experience for me on HDTVs...

 

As for drives, now that it's 2016, it's best to go with something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/C64c-Style-SD2IEC-Commodore-1541-Disk-Drive-Emulator-SD-Card-Reader-C64-C128-VIC-/330917399751?hash=item4d0c36ccc7:g:-~AAAOSw6btXR5dM

That will allow you to use floppy disk images like you would in emulation, but on your C64. I hate to say it because I'm hardcore floppy disk lover, this is the easiest, fastest, ultimately cheapest way to access software these days.

If you want to use real disks, I suggest avoiding the 1541 drive, but they are plentiful and rather cheap. They just aren't the best quality and usually need realignments often, are slow, heavy and run hot. I suggest using an Epyx Fast Load cartridge with it. These are easy to find on eBay lately for around $25, more or less and will usually improve load times on most software quite well from my experience of years without it and then with!

 

The 1541-II drive is an improvement in many regards and I suggest this, but it will be in the style of the C64c rather than the original C64 case. Make sure it comes with its power supply.

The 1571 was my favorite drive.

While using real disks, there is this: http://store.go4retro.com/zoomfloppy/The Zoom Floppy will let you download disk images and make physical disks for use in your C64! Just stock up on blank DS/DD disks, as the Commodore drives cann't format and use high density disks!

 

It's not usually worth buying authentic disks unless you're collecting them for their boxes or just the disks or if the software is impossible to find in disk image format for emulation/"burning" a real floppy with.

 

Tape drives are easy to find and hold up well, but the tapes are rare now and you can save things to blank ones, but they're slow and it's best to use a tape drive emulator if you must, like this:

I suggest avoiding tapes until you come across something that you can't find any other way.

 

You'll also want a joystick (there are so many...it's overwhelming. Look for something you'll enjoy, if you're used to game pads, get a game pad. My distaste for the Wico bat joystick lies in its stiffness, while I have always loved The bug since it sits in the hand and joystick is done by fingers, but we all have our own preferences)

 

In addition to that, there are so many expansions, like ethernet cards http://store.go4retro.com/64nic/

 

All you have to do is just Google your idea for what you want, and usually there's something to be found. There's weird old hardware, too like the Computer Eyes image capture device or scanners that attach to your dot matrix printer head...etc.

 

Personally, I think a great, stable start in C64 these days is a C64/C64c, replacement power supply, SD2IEC disk drive emulator, a small CRT tv or monitor with video converter box, and a joystick or two.

 

 

As for new releases in games and such, there IS such a thing!!!! You can usually buy disk images of new games and write floppies/run them in the drive emulator.

 

This is an example of a place to get some new C64 hardware/software, just beware of making sure the game is NTSC and not PAL when you buy it since they're not in N.A. http://www.protovision-online.de/index.php?language=en

And there are others like that, just keep searching for what you want. Homebrew on the C64 is very active!

 

I think that's about it for a good start.

 

*I should add, accelerators aren't necessary and won't do much for you for the C64 if you find one. Nothing on the C64 is usually slow unless the disk drive is slow! That's where you run in to problems...and learn to avoid the 1541 haha.

Edited July 25, 2016 by nicholas042893

[high voltage]

FAQ on Consoles and Computers are on Digital Press, here's the C64 FAQ: http://www.digitpress.com/faq/commodore64.htm

[danny_galaga]

1) Composite cable is a no-brainer.

 

2) An SD2IEC for loading software. Or a μcassette and mp3 player. I started out on the cheap by using a datasette and one of those car stereo adapters for turning your bitchin' 90's era tapedecks into a CD player. Adapter was two or three bucks! I connected my mp3 player to that.

 

3) Small CRT TV to add a bit of authenticity

 

4) and a joystick/ joypad for funnin'. Master System gamepad works well, but avoid megadrive/ genesis pads. Some people are fine with them, some find it blows up bits of their Commodore! Master System is just switches, much like the joysticks. You could also make your own joystick or hack a gamepad (",)

 

Only the SD2IEC will cost you more than a few bucks, and even then it's not too expensive (much cheaper than a disk drive, that's for sure!). If you get one, go to:

 

https://www.thefuturewas8bit.com/index.php/sd2iec-info

 

For a really handy guide. If you want to get it going quickly, scroll down to where it says 'Too much work for you?' and go from there. He even has a nice ready to go collection of games tested on these devices (",)

Edited August 3, 2016 by danny_galaga

[Smokeless Joe]

Okay, I went all in! Well, pretty far in anyway. I found a relatively local C64c and an 8-pin DIN to s-video cable. I have an LCD that handles s-video pretty well, but I also have a Framemeister, so video isn't a problem. Now I'm just waiting for the SD2IEC and fast load cart I ordered from thefuturewas8bit, and scoping out the various C64 software archives.

 

Thanks for all the feedback! I've always been jealous of the large C64 library. Now I'm looking forward to enjoying it!