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Anteater rom, still missing?


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#51 eshu OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 4, 2016 2:38 PM

So one guy has a lost game, sits on it, and another guy recreates it from scratch. Props to nanochess for doing it.

 

This is StarCastle level stuff here.

 

In case anyone forgot, A veteran programmer created a Star Castle game, made a prototype, and then asked $32,000 for his "Proto." There were no takers so he sat on it. Then another programmer high in the community began development of a better Star Castle. The first guy ended up doing a kickstarter to release his game, and the second guy finished his version and released it in the AA store the following year. Both are good but the AA version plays superior, though the first game had flashing lights only available in the KS carts.

To be fair the solidcorp / kickstarter version was using old era tech (I think 8k rom with standard bankswitching) where the AA version is DPC+ I think?



#52 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 4, 2016 2:44 PM

Nope, just 128 bytes of good old extra RAM.

 

Only for storing the high scores directly on the cart some ARM hardware is used.



#53 Jinks OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 4, 2016 3:32 PM

I will buy this game when it gets done.
Supporting homebrew is the way to go.
The orignal is dead to us all and sucks.
Thanks Nanochess!

#54 eshu OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 4, 2016 3:37 PM

fair dos - I stand corrected - probably made an assumption based on cost/board used in the store....still a significant amount more rom etc...


Edited by eshu, Sun Dec 4, 2016 3:37 PM.


#55 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 4, 2016 3:44 PM

Yup. And most of it is required for all the bells and whistles (title screen, high score screen, castle explosion, messages etc.).



#56 nanochess OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 4, 2016 8:30 PM

Now with moveable tongue in its own thread in the Homebrew forum http://atariage.com/...-atari-vcs2600/



#57 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 4, 2016 11:26 PM

I will buy this game when it gets done.
Supporting homebrew is the way to go.
The orignal is dead to us all and sucks.
Thanks Nanochess!

If it's any consolation, original bitd ports are overrated. Space Invaders Vs Space Instigators. Both are great but the homebrew version (despite having only one "variation") actually plays like the arcade version.

Need a better example?

Asteroids Vs Space Rocks. Not convinced yet?

Compare Atari Pacman to:

Hack 'Em
Pacman Arcade (Ms Pacman hack)
Pacman "4k"
"New" Pacman (8k)

Suffice to say the new homebrew port will blow the vintage release out of the water (assuming the ROM ever gets released) :grin:

#58 Jinks OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 5, 2016 6:22 AM

I know KS. Thats why I said that who cares for the original.

#59 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 6, 2016 10:19 PM

With all due respect, while I do agree that some of the homebrew works put forth over the past decade or two have indeed been incredibly impressive, there is a danger in having a completely dismissive attitude towards the historically significant & original prototypes from the Atari time period.

Granted, the hostage situation that this particular original proto happens to be held up in is both aggravating & frustrating. And by all means, a great homebrew effort is absolutely appreciated & encouraged. Not only for its playability & contribution to the game library, but also because it can have an inadvertent effect on what happens to the original in the near future.

But please don't completely forget & disregard the importance & significance of what was done by the original programmers of the day. An accurate & complete historical preservation of these games is critical. Let's not forget that.

#60 alex_79 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 7, 2016 4:05 AM

Since the screenshots on Atariprotos are from an emulator, the original game has been already dumped and so it shouldn't be any risk of losing it forever even if bitrotting will eventually destroy the physical copy. The historical preservation already happened, even if the rom has not been released publicy.

 

The recreation of the game doesn't affect that. It's not like if someone is secretly coding a new version of the game with the intention of passing it for the original. It's clearly stated that it's a recreation and wip versions are being posted too. We will always be able to distinguish the new one from the original proto.



#61 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 7, 2016 5:23 AM

Judging from the Atariprotos.com review screenshots, the original Atari 2600 conversion plays differently anyway. There seem to be no dots in the tunnels, instead it looks like you have to eat dots at the tunnel intersections (see 3rd screenshot). So the new version will be even closer to the original!

 

And the name has been changed into Aardvark, so where's the problem? :)



#62 Jinks OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 7, 2016 6:27 AM

The attitude towards hoarded original rare games is at the owners own fault. If they shared there would be a more widespread appreciation of the old games and also would give homebrew coders of today more time to make games that have not already been completed.
We are all getting old and the amount of people dying off and getting out of retro games grows every day. So the value of these old games no matter how rare in 30 40 years will be almost zero.

#63 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 3:40 AM

Since the screenshots on Atariprotos are from an emulator, the original game has been already dumped and so it shouldn't be any risk of losing it forever even if bitrotting will eventually destroy the physical copy. The historical preservation already happened, even if the rom has not been released publicy.

Hard drive crash / computer virus. House destroyed by flood / fire / natural disaster. The guy holding onto it dies and his computer gets trashed, recycled or wiped. Maybe the proto changes hands and resurfaces. Maybe it doesn't and ends in a landfill. Who knows. And the guy holding the ROM hostage certainly doesn't care about preservation and isn't going to write what to do with some silly ROM into his will. I honestly don't get the "look what I've got and you can't have it" attitude of prototype hoarders who won't release the ROM because it hurts the precious resale value.

 

It will be interesting to see how the guy holding the ROM reacts to a new homebrew release, if he responds at all. Maybe he admit defeat and post it publicly. The Star Castle guy certainly had a change of heart after he saw another dude release a functional port.



#64 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 3:56 AM

Hard drive crash / computer virus. House destroyed by flood / fire / natural disaster. The guy holding onto it dies and his computer gets trashed, recycled or wiped. Maybe the proto changes hands and resurfaces. Maybe it doesn't and ends in a landfill. Who knows. And the guy holding the ROM hostage certainly doesn't care about preservation and isn't going to write what to do with some silly ROM into his will. 

I am pretty sure that the ROM has been preserved. Also Tempest must have a copy which he used for review, probably a few more people have one too. So the complete loss is very unlikely.



#65 alex_79 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 5:36 AM

Yeah, not everyone has the ability and technical knowledge to dump a game by himself, so often they have to send the cartridge to someone else to obtain the rom. And as Thomas said, the rom is also sometimes shared with trusted people for review, or for analyzing the code. I'm quite confident that this particular proto is safe.



#66 Supergun OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 7:42 AM

We will always be able to distinguish the new one from the original proto.


Yes, in this particular situation, I would agree as we already have a plethora of screenshots documented for it. But this is not always the case, such as say for example the original Coleco programmed 2600 Lady Bug. So this can be a grey area of controversy & debate with some games.

With regards to this particular game, yes, I'm well aware that the rom data was dumped & is almost certainly saved in several locations across various media formats in order to preserve & safeguard it. (I never brought that into question with regards to this particular game)

Lastly, with regards to the subject of "unreleased / undumped / unemulated" protos, it is a popular misconception to use a broad brush & incorrectly assume that every single one that is in the hands of everyone who happens to have one, is in that status for the exact same reason. There are several different scenarios that have & often play out when it comes to locating, securing, & releasing these games. Everyone often forgets or ignores this fact.

Anyone who reads this thread from the beginning, can clearly see from my posts that the situations surrounding this particular games "hostage situation" is an example of absolute stupidity.

#67 Tempest ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 9:55 AM

Also Tempest must have a copy which he used for review, probably a few more people have one too. 

 

I do not.  I based my review on screenshots and written player accounts from when it was shown off at CGE 99 (I think) and a few other sources.  I do not have access to ANY of the unreleased Mattel protos other than Locomotion and Rocky and Bullwinkle which came to me from other sources.

 

All the Mattel ROMs have been preserved however by the Blue Sky Rangers so they'll never be lost.  They just can't release them due to copyright issues.



#68 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 1:07 PM

Sorry for my wrong assumption.



#69 Tempest ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 1:17 PM

Sorry for my wrong assumption.

 

I just didn't want to give the impression that I was hording unreleased roms or something. :)



#70 Foxsolo2000 ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 4:54 PM

 

I just didn't want to give the impression that I was hording unreleased roms or something. :)

I doubt anyone felt you were hoarding anything for you have said before several times that even when you were allowed to review a rom you deleted it due to the wishes of the owner after you had finished which was understandable.  You have single handely reviewed more prototypes than anyone else which many of us are greatly appreciative for, for without you we would know very little on any of the games that were never commercially released.  As for Nanochess I commend you for your efforts.  I wish you all the best in your endeavours.



#71 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 5:40 PM

 

Blue Sky Rangers...

Who the heck are these people?

4512185-blue-ranger-about-web.jpg



#72 Jinks OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 5:48 PM

 
I just didn't want to give the impression that I was hording unreleased roms or something. :)

The witch hunt continues! Onward! :P

Joking!

#73 Jinks OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 5:49 PM

Who the heck are these people?
4512185-blue-ranger-about-web.jpg

Is that not the 90s power rangers?
I knew they were douchebags.

#74 nanochess OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:40 PM

Aardvark now can finish a level and has music :music: http://atariage.com/...-atari-vcs2600/ :grin:



#75 PingvinBlueJeans OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:50 PM

Maybe Ed Fries can convert his A8 version to VCS


Not sure if that might've been a joke, but I just thought I'd point out that Ant Eater (usually written as two words or hyphenated) was an original game by Romox developed for the Atari computers and later converted to the TI-99 and VIC-20. While it has a similar concept, it has different gameplay elements and is not a port of the Anteater (one word) arcade game by Stern/Tago. It's more similar to Dig Dug.

Oil's Well was basically a direct copy of the coin-op's concept, but the arcade version itself was actually ported to the Atari (and other computers) as Ardy the Aardvark by Datasoft, with the Apple II version done by Chris Oberth himself. So if one did want to base an Atari 2600 conversion on a existing game (other than the unreleased prototype) that would be the best choice.




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