Incognito CF partition issues.. out of ideas. Help Please!

[Bikerbob]

OMG this is frustrating ..

I have installed my Incognito, and as far as I can tell it seems to be working.... BUT..

I cannot get SDX (I dont know another OS for this) to read the FAT16 partition on the CF card.

The cf card is a 8gb sandisk Ultra - BIOS (FJC latest) reads card.. Fdisk inits it, partitions it.. I can put in in a PC and format the Fat16

I get all OKs on the chkfat. The partition seems fine.

APT partitions I can build directories, I can transfer files etc.. no issues - it seems to be just the FAT16 - In the BIOS SIDE LOADER - I can see the FAT16 partition fine.

FJC has loaded this CF image into Altirra and it works fine (Image is available for anyone)

BUT - if I just load SDX 4.47 from the incognito, (I am waiting for a 192k GUI friendly size 448) .. I get 148 unknown file system (SO?? is Fatfs.sys loading from 447?? FJC works on Altirra?)

IF I run fatfs.sys from the 4.48 toolkit.. and try and dir d3: the system locks up - I can do nothing.. but after reset (not cold - so 448 fatfs.sys is still in there) I run dir again - I get 181 file system corrupt.. I can run a chkdisk on it.. but nothing else.

FJC and I have tried as much as we can see .. he thinks hardware... I really dont have and idea.. Any one know enough.. Could one of the wires that are specific to PBI function on the build be an issue??

 

Looking for ideas please!!!

James

Edited July 29, 2016 by Bikerbob

[gozar]

How big is the FAT16 partition? It needs to be less than 32MB (I usually use 31MB).

[Bikerbob]

Sorry, yes it is.. Though in the new 448 it's supposed to allow larger drives

 

James

Edited July 30, 2016 by Bikerbob

[flashjazzcat]

So: you've set everything up in Altirra using U1MB emulation and you get the exact same issue. This has to be significant.

[Bikerbob]

SO I can access the Fat16 through the loader no issues.. I transfered a bunch of ATRs to it.. and I can load them from the SIDELOADER.. no problems.

 

The problem seems to be getting Spartdos.. OR any atari DOS to see it.

 

When I load with the sideloader it set the drive to d1:

 

I assume thats what its supposed to do? I dont have the drive d1: swap on.

 

James

[flashjazzcat]

The loader supplies its own filesystem driver. It has nothing to do with the APT partitions (or your problem), so yes: D1: is correct.

[drac030]

IF I run fatfs.sys from the 4.48 toolkit.. and try and dir d3: the system locks up - I can do nothing..

Maybe it is a stupid question, but does it really lock up? The first access to a FAT16 partition usually takes a while, because the driver is scanning FAT to count free clusters.

 

Second, what version number FATFS displays when you load it?

 

(Image is available for anyone)

Where?

Edited July 30, 2016 by drac030

[flashjazzcat]

Here's the image James sent me:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x1alcc4nug7ww6p/8gbcf.zip?dl=0

 

It may not tell you much, however, since the geometry is fine and it works well here with FATFS.SYS.

[drac030]

Perhaps the geometry is fine, but... CHKDSK C: /X - this is a 32 MB partition with 1 sector per cluster. 64993 clusters mean that the FAT occupies 254 sectors: 128 KB! So no wonder why the initial disk logging takes half a minute (yes, 32 seconds!).

Edited July 30, 2016 by drac030

[flashjazzcat]

Perhaps the geometry is fine, but... CHKDSK C: /X - this is a 32 MB partition with 1 sector per cluster. 64993 clusters mean that the FAT occupies 254 sectors: 128 KB! So no wonder why the initial disk logging takes half a minute (yes, 32 seconds!).

 

Well, good thinking: perhaps the user assumes the system died while the free cluster count is established.

[Bikerbob]

ta da!

 

OK, thanks Drac!..

 

SO - SDX does not load fatfs.sys by default?? I would need to have some sort of boot .bat to load the drivers I need?

 

The other thing that threw me was that all other disk access had audio.. this had no audio.. but once I got closer and looked at my disk access light.. I could see it pulsing away.

 

I think I will keep my eyes out of a high intensity LED.. at my electronics store.. nothing special could be found.. 5mm led was all I could find.. nothing defining Lumins or CP or anything.

 

Patience.. IS a virtue

 

So is this partition with Sparta R/W or read only? and I was reading I can make larger partitions now??

 

James

Edited July 30, 2016 by Bikerbob

[Fuji-Man]

Perhaps the geometry is fine, but... CHKDSK C: /X - this is a 32 MB partition with 1 sector per cluster. 64993 clusters mean that the FAT occupies 254 sectors: 128 KB! So no wonder why the initial disk logging takes half a minute (yes, 32 seconds!).

Might be good information to add to manual and CHKDSK MAN page.

[flashjazzcat]

SO - SDX does not load fatfs.sys by default?? I would need to have some sort of boot .bat to load the drivers I need?

You reference the drivers you wish to load in CONFIG.SYS, which should be placed in the root directory of an SDFS formatted boot drive or partition. See the section "Configuring the system" in the SDX manual (IIRC). FAT access isn't required by all users and the FAT driver isn't required for general operation, so it doesn't make much sense to place DEVICE FAT in the vanilla CONFIG.SYS.

 

The other thing that threw me was that all other disk access had audio.. this had no audio.. but once I got closer and looked at my disk access light.. I could see it pulsing away.

Parallel disk IO doesn't involve Pokey serial transfers, so produces no sound. Another indicator (in Altirra) that the system hasn't died is the HDD activity graphic at the bottom of the display window, which I think is enabled by default.

 

So is this partition with Sparta R/W or read only? and I was reading I can make larger partitions now??

Read-only at the moment, and yes: the 32MB limit is lifted in recent driver revisions.

 

Might be good information to add to manual and CHKDSK MAN page.

Possibly so, but the cluster size recommendations are covered in the the readme file "FAT.TXT" in the same archive as the driver.

[Bikerbob]

Possibly so, but the cluster size recommendations are covered in the the readme file "FAT.TXT" in the same archive as the driver.

 

Oh.. so if I had read that I could have made a different cluster size that would not have lead to all this??

 

James

[drac030]

The logging time depends on the FAT size, and the FAT size depends on the total cluster count. Making a cluster 2x bigger cuts the FAT size in half, and so the logging time also is decreased proportionally.

 

So on the same 32 MB partition a 4k cluster makes FAT 8 times smaller. So you would wait 4 seconds for logging the drive, not half a minute.

 

BTW. splitting a 32 MB FAT disk into ~65000 clusters is probably the worst possible idea (unless someone has ~60000 really short files to save there).

 

Generally: keep the cluster count 32767 or smaller, and to cover larger media rather increase the cluster size. 8 or even 16k per cluster is nothing scary, and this allows the partition to be reasonably large keeping the FATs reasonably small at the same time.

[Bikerbob]

The logging time depends on the FAT size, and the FAT size depends on the total cluster count. Making a cluster 2x bigger cuts the FAT size in half, and so the logging time also is decreased proportionally.

 

So on the same 32 MB partition a 4k cluster makes FAT 8 times smaller. So you would wait 4 seconds for logging the drive, not half a minute.

 

BTW. splitting a 32 MB FAT disk into ~65000 clusters is probably the worst possible idea (unless someone has ~60000 really short files to save there).

 

Generally: keep the cluster count 32767 or smaller, and to cover larger media rather increase the cluster size. 8 or even 16k per cluster is nothing scary, and this allows the partition to be reasonably large keeping the FATs reasonably small at the same time.

 

Honestly.. all I did was format with Windows 7 format command.. I did not set cluster sizes.. I am not sure if I can with windows gui? Maybe with diskparted?

 

Ok.. so I might as well redo it.. because I have nothing on it now.. suggestion on what to format with?

 

2nd - I see the SDX Imager utility.. would it be best to change my CAR: version of SDX to include fatfs.sys?

So my line in the config would just add another DEVICE - FATFS

Otherwise I need to add fatfs.sys to a .bat file? or can you use DEVICE fatfs.sys(location) in a config.sys?

 

James

Edited July 31, 2016 by Bikerbob

[Bikerbob]

ok, so I went ahead and used the imager.

 

As I am using the incognito.. why would I want Device Jiffy if I already am loading Device Ultime??

 

Also since I have the 1MB ram.. why would I not use USE BANKED in my config.sys??

 

Ok,, so I added fatfs.sys to the image.

 

I then modified config.sys

 

DEVICE SPARTA OSRAM (THIS IS WHERE MY QUESTION ABOUT BANKED IS... Reading in the manual if I have ram .. I should not use the OSRAM switch??)

DEVICE SIO

DEVICE ATARIDOS

DEVICE INDUS 4

DEVICE ULTIME

DEVICE FATFS (I removed JIFFY and placed FATFS here) do I need to do FATFS.SYS because its in the USER bank??

DEVICE RAMDISK

 

but when it booted I got

Config error (152): DEVICE FATFS

 

James

[Bikerbob]

tried it also as fatfs.sys.. so something I am missing. guess I wait ...

[Roydea6]

fatfs.sys is in the toolkit atr as an ARC file. So unarc it and put fatfs.sys in the path.

 

Then from the Autoexec.bat have one of the last lines read as:

 

FATFS.SYS

 

The autoexec.bat will run it and open your FAT16 Partition..

[Bikerbob]

fatfs.sys is in the toolkit atr as an ARC file. So unarc it and put fatfs.sys in the path.

 

Then from the Autoexec.bat have one of the last lines read as:

 

FATFS.SYS

 

The autoexec.bat will run it and open your FAT16 Partition..

 

I hear you about the autoexec.bat .. I am hoping to build my own custom sdx using the imager, that way I dont have to worry about what disk is the boot disk etc.

 

the big issue I am having is trying to get the binary fatfs.sys on to something that the windows app sdx imager can read it.. as a binary.

 

I have an sio2pc using APE.. I have a drive mirrored, but if I write to the mirrored dir then the file is considered text now. it does not transfer to the SDX rom as a binary..

 

I think I know what to do.. I am just not having the luck to get it done tonight.. well off to bed.

 

James

[flashjazzcat]

As I am using the incognito.. why would I want Device Jiffy if I already am loading Device Ultime?

No reason at all. JIFFY.SYS is a fallback driver which maintains the system clock when no RTC hardware is present. You have an RTC on the Incognito driven by ULTIME.SYS, so DEVICE ULTIME may replace DEVICE JIFFY.

 

Also since I have the 1MB ram.. why would I not use USE BANKED in my config.sys??

I assume this is a rhetorical question, but in any case: there is no reason why not.

 

I then modified config.sys

 

DEVICE SPARTA OSRAM (THIS IS WHERE MY QUESTION ABOUT BANKED IS... Reading in the manual if I have ram .. I should not use the OSRAM switch??)

The manual says:

 

The 'OSRAM' parameter only applies if the system is set to 'USE OSRAM'; it will be

ignored otherwise. In this mode, the memory from $C000-$CFFF will be used for sector

buffers, otherwise they will be allocated from main RAM. The default is to not use

'OSRAM'.

EDIT: Thanks to Konrad's helpful remarks, you may leave OSRAM in since it's ignored when using BANKED.

 

DEVICE SIO

DEVICE ATARIDOS

DEVICE INDUS 4

DEVICE ULTIME

DEVICE FATFS (I removed JIFFY and placed FATFS here) do I need to do FATFS.SYS because its in the USER bank??

DEVICE RAMDISK

 

but when it booted I got

Config error (152): DEVICE FATFS

It seems that FATFS.SYS got mangled somewhere along the way, since SDX is attempting to load it, but discovering it is not a readable binary executable.

 

fatfs.sys is in the toolkit atr as an ARC file. So unarc it and put fatfs.sys in the path.

 

Then from the Autoexec.bat have one of the last lines read as:

 

FATFS.SYS

 

The autoexec.bat will run it and open your FAT16 Partition..

That will work, but since Bikerbob is using a PBI HDD, he might as well create a CONFIG.SYS on disk and reference FATFS.SYS from there. Even if FATFS.SYS is not placed on CAR:, it can still be referenced from CONFIG.SYS, as long as the path is already valid.

 

I hear you about the autoexec.bat .. I am hoping to build my own custom sdx using the imager, that way I dont have to worry about what disk is the boot disk etc.

 

the big issue I am having is trying to get the binary fatfs.sys on to something that the windows app sdx imager can read it.. as a binary.

 

I have an sio2pc using APE.. I have a drive mirrored, but if I write to the mirrored dir then the file is considered text now. it does not transfer to the SDX rom as a binary..

 

I think I know what to do.. I am just not having the luck to get it done tonight.. well off to bed.

Forget writing to mirrored folders using APE with SDX. Doesn't work. Use RespeQt and set up PCLink if you want to write to mirrored folders (see SDX toolkit disk, SDX manual, and RespeQt topic).

 

Alternatively, use Altirra's Disk Explorer to get FATFS.SYS out of the archive on the toolkit and drag it right onto the desktop. Then you can insert it straight onto CAR: using the imager.

Edited July 31, 2016 by flashjazzcat

[drac030]

Leave the OSRAM argument out when using BANKED.

Yes, leave out. Then one day switch the memory size to 64k, start the system and be badly surprised.

[flashjazzcat]

Yes, leave out. Then one day switch the memory size to 64k, start the system and be badly surprised.

OK so leave it in. I leave it out on my systems since I don't tend to boot SDX on systems anyway equipped with at least 320KB.

 

EDIT: I have revised my advice, which is hopefully more agreeable now.

Edited July 31, 2016 by flashjazzcat

[drac030]

I leave it out on my systems since I don't tend to boot SDX on systems anyway equipped with at least 320KB.

That is obvious, but as I understand, Bikerbob wants to edit the default CAR:CONFIG.SYS in this manner. And he has Incognito with switchable RAM size.

 

Generally I would prefer if people did not fiddle so much with the default CONFIG files. The default one's purpose is just to save your ... situation when something goes wrong. And this file is usually optimal for the given build. The customized CONFIG files should rather be loaded from the disk whenever possible. IMHO keeping them there is also much more convenient, because such a file may be edited in a second without reflashing the entire ROM.

Edited July 31, 2016 by drac030

[flashjazzcat]

That is obvious, but as I understand, Bikerbob wants to edit the default CAR:CONFIG.SYS in this manner. And he has Incognito with switchable RAM size.

 

Generally I would prefer if people did not fiddle so much with the default CONFIG files. The default one's purpose is just to save your ... situation when something goes wrong. And this file is usually optimal for the given build. The customized CONFIG files should rather be loaded from the disk whenever possible. IMHO keeping them there is also much more convenient, because such a file may be edited in a second without reflashing the entire ROM.

Agreed, and I would advocate (as I hoped was implicit from my other comments) simply creating a custom CONFIG.SYS on disk. With a PBI HDD like that found in Incognito (unlike say, the SIDE2 scenario), it isn't necessary to edit CONFIG.SYS on CAR: at all.

 

In any case, the line of questioning seems to be SDX-specific now rather than Incognito-centric, so please carry on.