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Atari800MacX macOS Sierra sound not working


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#1 Fletch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:22 AM

Installed Beta 4 of macOS Sierra and Atari800MacX no longer has sound.  When you launch the app it will load, but the sound is disabled.  When you click to enable it in preferences and the hit ok Atari800MacX will crash.

 

I've tried this on two different MacBook Pros so it seems like this could be an issue going forward.

 

Just a heads up for those of us who rely and love this emulator.

 

-Pete



#2 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:11 AM

Yep. Confirmed. I don't recall this being an issue with earlier builds of Sierra, but Atari800MacX had other problems with the earliest builds, especially in related to file selector dialog boxes.

 

Oh well - I guess this is the kind of thing you have to expect when the emulator hasn't been updated in something like 4 or 5 years. *sigh* 

 

Last I checked, Altirra still worked great under CrossOver, so at least there's that.



#3 spookt OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:57 AM

Ouch - just realised this. Shows I don't use the emulator for games! Didn't notice the lack of SIO sound and yes it crashes here too on the latest Sierra public beta. Guess I'll have to start using Altirra on my Windows VM :(



#4 JoSch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:49 AM

Yep. Confirmed. I don't recall this being an issue with earlier builds of Sierra, but Atari800MacX had other problems with the earliest builds, especially in related to file selector dialog boxes.

 

Oh well - I guess this is the kind of thing you have to expect when the emulator hasn't been updated in something like 4 or 5 years. *sigh* 

 

Last I checked, Altirra still worked great under CrossOver, so at least there's that.

Or, that's what you have to expect, when using a beta OS  ;-)



#5 Fletch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:30 AM

Or, that's what you have to expect, when using a beta OS   ;-)

 

 

That is true, but the point is that if Apple has changed the audio subsystem in macOS Sierra and Atari800MacX is no longer being updated that Mac users need to be aware.

 

Will the final macOS Sierra and Atari800MacX work together?  Who knows.  But the way the beta currently stands it does not work.

 

I wanted other Mac users to be aware if that they wanted to play about with the beta that they should hold off if Atari800MacX is important to them.



#6 Mathy ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:46 AM

Hello Fletch

 

Did you report this bug to Apple?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#7 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:56 AM

Or, that's what you have to expect, when using a beta OS   ;-)


OS system API's change. Old ones are deprecated and then eliminated. That's why code needs to be periodically updated and maintained.

And I'm actually, technically, not using the public beta but the details are under an NDA. ;)

Edited by DrVenkman, Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:30 AM.


#8 Fletch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:57 AM

Hello Fletch

 

Did you report this bug to Apple?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

I have not as the developer of Atari800MacX has suspended development for now.  He hasn't ruled out revisiting it in the future, but for now it is in its final form.

 

Details in this thread : http://atariage.com/...cx#entry3564255

 

I highly doubt Apple is going to care a lick about a no longer developed product.



#9 Mathy ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:11 AM

Hello Fletch

 

But the problem doesn't have to lie with Atari800MacX, the problem seems to have started with Sierra PB4.  Maybe it occurs with other pieces of software (hat we might not use or even be aware of) too.  And letting Apple have a look at the problem can't hurt.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy


Edited by Mathy, Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:12 AM.


#10 Fletch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:13 AM

Hello Fletch

 

But the problem doesn't have to lie with Atari800MacX, the problem seems to have started with Sierra PB4.  Maybe it occurs with other pieces of software (hat we might not use or even be aware of) too.  And letting Apple have a look at the problem can't hurt.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

I'll send them feedback on it.  



#11 JoSch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:19 AM

 
 
That is true, but the point is that if Apple has changed the audio subsystem in macOS Sierra and Atari800MacX is no longer being updated that Mac users need to be aware.
 
Will the final macOS Sierra and Atari800MacX work together?  Who knows.  But the way the beta currently stands it does not work.
 
I wanted other Mac users to be aware if that they wanted to play about with the beta that they should hold off if Atari800MacX is important to them.

That's commendable, but as already stated it can simply a regression bug.
I have seen things go wrong with progressing betas, finally getting fixed with the release.
And the point if the public beta is that people write feedback about issues 😀

Edited by JoSch, Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:41 AM.


#12 Fletch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:47 AM

That's commendable, but as already stated it can simply a regression bug.
I have seen things go wrong with progressing betas, finally getting fixed with the release.
And the point if the public beta is that people write feedback about issues

 

 

I send much feedback to Apple on bugs I have encountered.  But typically I do not send feed back about bugs on no longer supported software.  Maybe I am weird in that regard.  

 

I think you've taken this on a tangent.  My point was only to inform other Mac users that Beta 4 and Atari800MacX were not functioning together.  

 

Going forward I'm just going to keep this information to myself.  All others be damned.



#13 JoSch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:00 PM

 
 
I send much feedback to Apple on bugs I have encountered.  But typically I do not send feed back about bugs on no longer supported software.  Maybe I am weird in that regard.  
 
I think you've taken this on a tangent.  My point was only to inform other Mac users that Beta 4 and Atari800MacX were not functioning together.  
 
Going forward I'm just going to keep this information to myself.  All others be damned.

What? I never said anything like that. I also stated providing this info is commendable.
My remark was an answer to Venkman, not you.
I don't understand your reaction. This is not Macrumors.
If I have stepped on your toes, I'm really sorry, that was certainly not the intent of my remarks.

Edited by JoSch, Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:03 PM.


#14 Fletch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:30 PM

What? I never said anything like that. I also stated providing this info is commendable.
My remark was an answer to Venkman, not you.
I don't understand your reaction. This is not Macrumors.
If I have stepped on your toes, I'm really sorry, that was certainly not the intent of my remarks.

 

 

Your comment seemed a tad snarky about how public betas work and it seemed as if you were heading towards a lecture about using beta software in general.

 

I really wanted to just provide people with the knowledge about the software no longer working.  

 

Threads have a way of heading off into crazy directions some times.

 

I apologize for being brash.

 

-Pete



#15 JoSch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:04 PM

 
 
Your comment seemed a tad snarky about how public betas work and it seemed as if you were heading towards a lecture about using beta software in general.
 
I really wanted to just provide people with the knowledge about the software no longer working.  
 
Threads have a way of heading off into crazy directions some times.
 
I apologize for being brash.
 
-Pete

No no no. You got me wrong. I just wanted to counter the sentiment that it could only be the fault of the not maintained software.
With beta software, there is always the usual caveat and sometimes perfectly correct software breaks because issues with fixes.
Please, please go on with do your service to the community.
Again, my comments weren't targeted at you.

#16 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:54 PM

No no no. You got me wrong. I just wanted to counter the sentiment that it could only be the fault of the not maintained software.
With beta software, there is always the usual caveat and sometimes perfectly correct software breaks because issues with fixes.
Please, please go on with do your service to the community.
Again, my comments weren't targeted at you.

 

 

No, they were targeted at me but I agree with Fletch - you were rude and snarky in your initial reply to my comment. My initial reply to you this morning summed up the matter perfectly: Atari800MacX s obsolescent at this point; it uses deprecated libraries and further, hasn't taken the last several years' worth of updates to the Atari800 core into its codebase, since it hasn't been maintained. This is not a dig against the author - he's got a life and that takes priorities over hobbies.

 

Fortunately, the source code IS available if someone had the time and knowledge necessary to do any updating and conversion, even if that just means compiling with the latest version of Xcode to help ensure compatibility with future versions of macOS.



#17 Mathy ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:04 PM

Hello guys

 

Must be the language barrier.  To me, JoSch's comment didn't sound in any way negative.  Remember, to you guys, English is your native language, to some of us it isn't.  My native language for example is a regional dialect (which differs from town to town), my second language was Dutch, my third was German and English was only the fourth language I learned.  I've tried to learn Spanish, and hope to pick that up at some moment in the future.  Believe me, it's not always easy to get the point across in your native language, let alone any other.  Plus this is written text.  One error and the message doesn't get across.  Speak to somebody and you can say something completely different from what you mean and the other one can do so too, but still you both know what the other intended to say.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#18 kogden OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:03 PM

Hello guys

 

Must be the language barrier.  To me, JoSch's comment didn't sound in any way negative.  Remember, to you guys, English is your native language, to some of us it isn't.  My native language for example is a regional dialect (which differs from town to town), my second language was Dutch, my third was German and English was only the fourth language I learned.  I've tried to learn Spanish, and hope to pick that up at some moment in the future.  Believe me, it's not always easy to get the point across in your native language, let alone any other.  Plus this is written text.  One error and the message doesn't get across.  Speak to somebody and you can say something completely different from what you mean and the other one can do so too, but still you both know what the other intended to say.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

As a native English speaker, I didn't find his comment snarky.  Anyway, this may be a non-issue when Sierra hits an official release.  Apple is pretty good about maintaining backwards compatibility with most older software.  I've run some quite ancient software on recent OSX releases without issues.

 

While Atari800MacX hasn't been updated in some time, it still runs quite well for me.  The biggest hassle is getting it all to build in newer XCode releases.  I'll take the slightly dated emulator for a VERY dated machine over running a non-native emulator in a craptastic Windows VM or WINE environment any day of the week. 

 

I would simply file reports with Apple and not really panic until the release version of Sierra hits.  If it's still broken after that then it may be necessary to start digging at the Atari800MacX code.



#19 JoSch OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:11 AM

 

 

No, they were targeted at me but I agree with Fletch - you were rude and snarky in your initial reply to my comment. My initial reply to you this morning summed up the matter perfectly: Atari800MacX s obsolescent at this point; it uses deprecated libraries and further, hasn't taken the last several years' worth of updates to the Atari800 core into its codebase, since it hasn't been maintained. This is not a dig against the author - he's got a life and that takes priorities over hobbies.

 

Fortunately, the source code IS available if someone had the time and knowledge necessary to do any updating and conversion, even if that just means compiling with the latest version of Xcode to help ensure compatibility with future versions of macOS.

Again, I never meant to be rude. I still don't know where this was rude, but as always in communication the receiver of a message can interpret things in other ways as the sender intended.

So, I apologize to all, who think my comment was rude. It wasn't intended to be rude or snarky.



#20 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:39 AM

C'mon guys, you are all highly intelligent and rule one of showing high intelligence is solving issues..

 

Lets rule it out as misunderstandings and try to help Fletch as best as possible..

 

Paul...Grandfather / peace keeper of the group :)


Edited by Mclaneinc, Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:40 AM.


#21 Fletch OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:20 AM

I am sorry I misinterpreted Josch's intent.  Josch, I am sorry.

 

That being said, I just installed Public Beta 5 and the sound issue continues.  I sent Apple feedback on Beta 4 and have done so again for Beta 5.



#22 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:08 AM

I hope it gets resolved for you, sounded like an Apple screw up but I may not have read the thread 100% properly...

 

Best of luck anyway..



#23 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:56 AM

I hope it gets resolved for you, sounded like an Apple screw up but I may not have read the thread 100% properly...

 

Best of luck anyway..

 

 

As I've pointed out repeatedly, it's not a screw up, it's use of deprecated APIs and libraries in older code that hasn't been updated in a number of years. Stuff like this happens over time. It may or may not get a work-around in the final version of Sierra, depending on how much other software is out in the world is also affected by the change; let's be honest - Atari emulation is pretty far down into "niche use" territory for the vast majority of modern computer users, no matter what OS you prefer (Linux, OS X, Win). Whether or not this Atari800MacX works under Sierra will not be a driving factor in the final release.

Personally, I'm MUCH more chapped that Logic Pro 9 doesn't work anymore under Sierra. I have no desire to spend another $200 to buy Logic Pro X instead, when 9 was working great for me.



#24 JoSch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:10 AM

Yes, you're correct, that deprecated APIs often break, but here is a big caveat, especially for OS APIs:

Deprecation in itself, doesn't warrant breakage or removal.

It normally means that you shouldn't use this API for new stuff. E.g. look at Carbon: It's long deprecated, but as of El Capitan it still runs.

That the old audio API (which by the way?) is broken in the Beta, only means that it's broken at the moment.

Because as long as Apple doesn't clearly state, that it wants to remove this particular API, they will probably fix it.

I can't think of a reason, why Apple would wantonly break things for Logic 9, even if they don't sell it anymore. Even FCP 7 still runs on El Capitan out of the box.

 

As an aside: Logic X is in my opinion the superior product, so you should really consider buying it. I have worked with both version, so I tell that I never looked back to using Logic 9 again.



#25 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:12 AM

I even read about plugin issues in Logic X with Sierra betas, and I doubt that's down to deprecated APIs. As said: deprecated simply means not actively developed in this case.




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