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Atari800MacX macOS Sierra sound not working


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#26 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:44 AM

Yes, you're correct, that deprecated APIs often break, but here is a big caveat, especially for OS APIs:

Deprecation in itself, doesn't warrant breakage or removal.

It normally means that you shouldn't use this API for new stuff. E.g. look at Carbon: It's long deprecated, but as of El Capitan it still runs.

That the old audio API (which by the way?) is broken in the Beta, only means that it's broken at the moment.

 

 

Some part of CoreAudio, I'd imagine, that isn't being fully incorporated or supported as part of AV Foundation.  Here, go nuts. Fix Atari800MacX while you're at it. :)

 

https://developer.ap.../av-foundation/

 

As an aside: Logic X is in my opinion the superior product, so you should really consider buying it. I have worked with both version, so I tell that I never looked back to using Logic 9 again.

 

I'm sure Logic Pro X is great. I don't think paying $200 is great when what I already paid $200 for Logic Pro 9 a few years ago and that still serves my needs. I'm probably just going to spend $50 for Auria Pro on iOS and move away from using my Mac for any recording anyway if Logic Pro 9 isn't working by the final release.

 

Now all this petty nerd-fighting aside, Mac users can at least console ourselves that Altirra works under WINE/Crossover. Yes, it's got a horrible, clunky multi-menu Windows UI, but the underlying emulator is a wonderful piece of work that runs great, AND it supports accurate emulation of modern hardware upgrades and devices like the Ultimate 1MB, SIDE and SIDE2 carts, etc. Really fabulous work phaeron has done there.


Edited by DrVenkman, Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:45 AM.


#27 JoSch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:53 AM

All I wanted to say is: Keep calm and carry on till the release version drops  ;-)


Edited by JoSch, Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:55 AM.


#28 Eyvind Bernhardsen OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:12 AM

Just remember that only a few years ago you'd have had to pay $129 just to get the new OS, never mind the cost to upgrade your apps :)

#29 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:09 AM

My apols DrV, I did say I had not read the post 100% properly and may have been wrong :)

 

Was merely trying to calm things down....



#30 spookt OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:03 AM

I reverted back to El Capitain last night as the beta broke a few other things more important to me than sound in Atari emulation. I'll wait for the dust to settle on the release version before I go back.



#31 kogden OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:35 PM

 

Some part of CoreAudio, I'd imagine, that isn't being fully incorporated or supported as part of AV Foundation.  Here, go nuts. Fix Atari800MacX while you're at it. :)

 

https://developer.ap.../av-foundation/

 

 

I'm sure Logic Pro X is great. I don't think paying $200 is great when what I already paid $200 for Logic Pro 9 a few years ago and that still serves my needs. I'm probably just going to spend $50 for Auria Pro on iOS and move away from using my Mac for any recording anyway if Logic Pro 9 isn't working by the final release.

 

AV Foundation has been in use since Yosemite, I doubt that's the issue.  Something is likely broken and I'm sure Atari800MacX is not the only application effected.  We'll see once another beta or two hits the wire.

 

As far as Logic Pro X, you can always get a copy the same way most of us obtain our Atari software.  There's this bay I've heard about with a bunch of people with eye patches.  I seriously doubt Auria Pro could deal with my pile of x86-64 native VST plugins.  And the difficulties with the sandboxing and filesystem abstraction on iOS make any attempts I've made at serious audio work on them subpar and not worth the hassle.  Cute toy for an impromptu jam session but for a versatile do-it-all DAW the iPad blows.

 

I'm sure Logic 9 will be working by the release.  Logic 9 is the only option for 32-bit plugins that haven't been updated.  Apple knows better.

 

 


Now all this petty nerd-fighting aside, Mac users can at least console ourselves that Altirra works under WINE/Crossover. Yes, it's got a horrible, clunky multi-menu Windows UI, but the underlying emulator is a wonderful piece of work that runs great, AND it supports accurate emulation of modern hardware upgrades and devices like the Ultimate 1MB, SIDE and SIDE2 carts, etc. Really fabulous work phaeron has done there.

 

Or you could compile the Linux/UNIX version of Atari800SDL and use it with X11.  Binary versions probably even exist in repositories like fink, brew or MacPorts.  I got a Mac as a desktop-ready UNIX workstation with decent commercial software support, not to run Winblows software using some kludge.  Atari800MacX might be dated by a few years but it's far from crap and it's quite likely that this issue may be fixed before Sierra's release.  Apple doesn't have a habit of breaking API's on short notice. 



#32 Ripdubski OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:54 PM

 

 

That is true, but the point is that if Apple has changed the audio subsystem in macOS Sierra and Atari800MacX is no longer being updated that Mac users need to be aware.

 

Will the final macOS Sierra and Atari800MacX work together?  Who knows.  But the way the beta currently stands it does not work.

 

I wanted other Mac users to be aware if that they wanted to play about with the beta that they should hold off if Atari800MacX is important to them.

 

Thx.  I won't update my main systems then!



#33 Fletch ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:26 PM

 

Thx.  I won't update my main systems then!

 

 

Hey, we got around to why I made this thread.  :)



#34 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:14 PM

Look, I'm not gonna argue this any further. I know a bit more about Mac OS stuff than I can say publicly. As I said before, we should all consider this "brokenness" a warning of things to come. Whatever borked Atari800MacX may be reverted (or fixed or undone - pick your term) before the GM or it may not be. The writing is on the wall for older software though. That was my first point and it remains valid. And once again, the source code is out there. If anyone has time and skill to rewrite whatever portions are necessary to build it for a more recent base version of OS X or macOS, please do so. Otherwise ... tick tock ... tick tock ...

As for the Logic, I'm not buying Logic Pro X. Just not worth another $200 for me. If Logic Pro 9 remains unworkable in Sierra I'll either go to Reaper, PreSonus StudioOne or Auria Pro - watch some videos of Auria running on an iPad Pro - you might be pleasantly surprised. Since I don't use a giant collection of .VST plugins, that issue isn't relevant to me at all.

#35 Fletch ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:36 AM

Just installed Public Beta 6 and the incompatibility with Atari800MacX continues.  



#36 Fletch ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:07 PM

Installed Public Beta 7 and enabling sound crashes Atari800MacX.



#37 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:31 PM

Installed Public Beta 7 and enabling sound crashes Atari800MacX.


It's crashing in the dev (non-public) build too. And Logic Pro 9 is still borked. *sigh*

#38 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 7, 2016 5:12 PM

The latest and probably last (Gold Master) build of Sierra dropped for devs today. Sound in Atari800MacX is still borked.

Hate to say I told you so but ... 



#39 Fletch ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 8, 2016 5:31 PM

Installed macOS Sierra GM tonight, and as DrVenkman wrote above the sound is still borked.  I was hoping for a different result, but alas.  I guess I'll need to install a Wine port of Altirra.



#40 mellis OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 9, 2016 8:28 AM

Installed macOS Sierra GM tonight, and as DrVenkman wrote above the sound is still borked.  I was hoping for a different result, but alas.  I guess I'll need to install a Wine port of Altirra.

 

 

Hi folks.

 

I saw this thread and looked into it.  As it stands, sound is never going to work in Sierra or later because the current codebase relies on the SDL v1 library.  SDL v1 uses Carbon Audio Units for sound on the Mac, and that API has been deprecated for the last couple of OS X versions, pending its ultimate removal in Sierra.

 

I also looked at the possibility of swapping in SDL v2.  It is doable, and I played with it.  I might even finish it, but while SDL v2 fixes audio (as it now employs CoreAudio as it should), it brings some API incompatibilities with SDL v1 that require some reworking of the code.  Unfortunately, the Objective C code in the app has some important deficiencies -- specifically, multi-parameter Objective C method calls lack parameter names.  I spent a little time and sorted that out, but my point here is that it requires a little reworking to use SDL v2 and is more effort than simply recompiling.



#41 Fletch ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 9, 2016 9:24 AM

Mellis, 

 

I appreciate your efforts with this.  I really like how simple Atari800MacX works and if you or others can keep it limping along I know many of us would be grateful.

 

Thanks!
 

-Pete



#42 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 9, 2016 5:51 PM

Hi folks.
 
I saw this thread and looked into it.  As it stands, sound is never going to work in Sierra or later because the current codebase relies on the SDL v1 library.  SDL v1 uses Carbon Audio Units for sound on the Mac, and that API has been deprecated for the last couple of OS X versions, pending its ultimate removal in Sierra.
 
I also looked at the possibility of swapping in SDL v2.  It is doable, and I played with it.  I might even finish it, but while SDL v2 fixes audio (as it now employs CoreAudio as it should), it brings some API incompatibilities with SDL v1 that require some reworking of the code.  Unfortunately, the Objective C code in the app has some important deficiencies -- specifically, multi-parameter Objective C method calls lack parameter names.  I spent a little time and sorted that out, but my point here is that it requires a little reworking to use SDL v2 and is more effort than simply recompiling.


Thank you so much, mellis! If you ever get a version that works properly in Sierra, I'm sure we will all appreciate it very much.

I still love your old SIO Server program. If you ever want to contribute to the RespeQt project, I know that would be welcom as well. Your app is still the best looking SIO peripheral emulator there is. :)

#43 Ripdubski OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 9, 2016 7:31 PM

Mellis, 

 

I appreciate your efforts with this.  I really like how simple Atari800MacX works and if you or others can keep it limping along I know many of us would be grateful.

 

Thanks!
 

-Pete

 

This ^^^ !!!



#44 Fletch ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 9, 2016 8:13 PM

I've made a Wine port of Altirra 2.80.  Info is here : http://atariage.com/...r-macos-sierra/



#45 Ripdubski OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 9, 2016 8:33 PM

Would still like source that can compile.  I'd like to experiment with adding an on screen keyboard, and additional "console" keys like clear screen, inverse keystrokes, etc.  Those that take 4 fingers to invoke on my laptop Shft-Func-Alt-Fx.



#46 JoSch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:09 AM

 

 

Hi folks.

 

I saw this thread and looked into it.  As it stands, sound is never going to work in Sierra or later because the current codebase relies on the SDL v1 library.  SDL v1 uses Carbon Audio Units for sound on the Mac, and that API has been deprecated for the last couple of OS X versions, pending its ultimate removal in Sierra.

 

I also looked at the possibility of swapping in SDL v2.  It is doable, and I played with it.  I might even finish it, but while SDL v2 fixes audio (as it now employs CoreAudio as it should), it brings some API incompatibilities with SDL v1 that require some reworking of the code.  Unfortunately, the Objective C code in the app has some important deficiencies -- specifically, multi-parameter Objective C method calls lack parameter names.  I spent a little time and sorted that out, but my point here is that it requires a little reworking to use SDL v2 and is more effort than simply recompiling.

Not to rain on your parade, but Atari800 would remain on SDL1.2, so any updates on the Atari800 core would have rewritten again and again.

A better way would be look at what is causing the problem. I now have a Macbook Pro with the GM build of Sierra and I observed that the app crashes with an Division by Zero fault. I will try to look at the problem the coming week, if I find time.

Secondly, I installed Logic Pro 9 and played a bit around with it. The app seems to work perfectly.


Edited by JoSch, Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:12 AM.


#47 mellis OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:57 PM

Not to rain on your parade, but Atari800 would remain on SDL1.2, so any updates on the Atari800 core would have rewritten again and again.

A better way would be look at what is causing the problem. I now have a Macbook Pro with the GM build of Sierra and I observed that the app crashes with an Division by Zero fault. I will try to look at the problem the coming week, if I find time.

Secondly, I installed Logic Pro 9 and played a bit around with it. The app seems to work perfectly.

 

 

The crux of the problem is that, for the Mac port, SDL v1's audio is based on Carbon Audio Units.  I suppose some effort could be expended to back port the audio code from SDL v2 (which uses CoreAudio) to SDL v1, as SDL v2's audio API is compatible with SDL v1.  In doing so, a new SDL v1+ hybrid for Mac would result :-P .  

 

I have isolated the areas that need changing, and the changes seem fairly localized.  That said, I've made no effort to ascertain which pieces of code are particular to the Mac port and which pertain to the Atari800 codebase.

 

If I get a chance to play with it some more, I will post here.  My immediate objective was to get enough ported to SDL v2 to get it to compile.  At that point, I will need to address the keyboard input  as the next order of business.


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#48 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:35 PM

Secondly, I installed Logic Pro 9 and played a bit around with it. The app seems to work perfectly.


Not on my system (MPB 8,2) running the latest developer (GM) version of Sierra. It hasn't since the first time I tried months ago. Oh, the program loads and I can add an empty track or two, but if I create a project using any of the included templates, or try to copy the contents of an existing sample project to a blank project, I get a crash every time. I've reported it to Apple via private channels but no indication things will change. *shrug*

Edited by DrVenkman, Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:37 PM.


#49 JoSch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:19 AM

Not on my system (MPB 8,2) running the latest developer (GM) version of Sierra. It hasn't since the first time I tried months ago. Oh, the program loads and I can add an empty track or two, but if I create a project using any of the included templates, or try to copy the contents of an existing sample project to a blank project, I get a crash every time. I've reported it to Apple via private channels but no indication things will change. *shrug*

 

Well, I got an used Macbook Pro 2015 with a newly installed El Capitan. I installed Logic 9 and then upgraded to Sierra.

I play music and get no crash. Do you have some plugins installed?



#50 JoSch OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:22 AM

 

 

The crux of the problem is that, for the Mac port, SDL v1's audio is based on Carbon Audio Units.  I suppose some effort could be expended to back port the audio code from SDL v2 (which uses CoreAudio) to SDL v1, as SDL v2's audio API is compatible with SDL v1.  In doing so, a new SDL v1+ hybrid for Mac would result :-P .  

 

I have isolated the areas that need changing, and the changes seem fairly localized.  That said, I've made no effort to ascertain which pieces of code are particular to the Mac port and which pertain to the Atari800 codebase.

 

If I get a chance to play with it some more, I will post here.  My immediate objective was to get enough ported to SDL v2 to get it to compile.  At that point, I will need to address the keyboard input  as the next order of business.

I think fixing the SDL1 audio driver is easier and more sustainable than porting Atari800MacX to SDL2, because you still have to join the Atari800 code to it, when updates to later code is coming.






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