Harmony Encore funky display

[Tifany]

Hi

 

I just got my Harmony encore today and when i switch my AV modded atari 2600 jr on, the menu is not readable... it just looks like random garbage characters. I can select a game, but I have no idea which game im gonna get until it boots up. Im on my old crt tv set which works great with my PS1 and my N64. my atari jr seems to work fine with regular carts. Also, the harmony will NOT fit in my 7800?? Whats up with that?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks,

 

Tifany

 

 

[Tifany]

Ok Update... I got it to go in my 7800 and the menu and everything work just fine. I had to manually push dust cover of the cart up for it to fit the 7800... not sure why it doesnt engage properly. Also, I just noticed that some sounds are missing in 2600 games , both on the harmony and a normal cart (when using the 7800). Guess its been a while since Ive played 2600 games on it, I usually just use emulation. Soooo... guess my 2600 jr has an issue or two.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Tifany

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Your 7800 seems faulty too. If sounds are missing, than probably one audio channel is not working anymore.

 

BTW: Pictures showing the problem on the jr might help.

[cd-w]

I suspect the Jr is one of the late TIA89 models that doesn't support the early HMOVE trick used to display the text. There is no way to display the text on these consoles, but they are relatively rare so it is not an issue for most people. Is the console a PAL or NTSC model - I think TIA89 was more common on PAL? A screenshot would help us identify if this is the problem.

 

Tightly fitting carts are a known problem on the 7800 - the build quality of the later ones was very poor. However, in your case it sounds like the tabs to open the dust flaps have snapped off?

 

Chris

Edited August 23, 2016 by cd-w

[Everett1954]

My encore display looks terrible on my A/V modded junior ( this has a simple one transistor composite mod).

 

On my 7800 I have the longhorn video mod board and using composite video, it looks much better.

 

I am using a flat panel LED TV.

 

The font used in the Harmony is made for a CRT. I wish Fred would offer an update to the Firmware with a FONT made for modern TV's, if that is possible.

 

Fred, are you listening? There are a lot of us Flat panel TV users out here in classic land!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Its not the font, it is the display kernel which displays 96 pixel interleaved and flickering at 30Hz.

 

A stock Atari 2600 can't do better.

[+SpiceWare]

The font used in the Harmony is made for a CRT. I wish Fred would offer an update to the Firmware with a FONT made for modern TV's, if that is possible.

 

The problems with your TV, not all of them correctly handle 30 Hz flicker (required to generate the text display) when used with a 240p signal. I touch on that problem in this reply.

 

One thing that might help is if your TV has a setting for GAME MODE. This page has instructions on how to turn that on for a variety of TVs.

[+SpiceWare]

If game mode doesn't pan out there might be an alternate solution of using all CAPS for the text.

 

As a test case, load up Space Rocks (take link at top of first post to find the current build) on your Harmony and trigger the Credits Easter Egg (click the Show button to the right of Spoiler to see the instructions).

 

The text shows like this on a CRT:

 

Its possible your TV will render it like this:

[Everett1954]

OK, so what I understand is that my TV can't handle the 30hz flicker and 96 pixel interleaved text of the display kernel. Other 2600 text displays fine on my set, So is it just how Fred decided to program the text for the Harmony or did it have to be that way because

of program considerations?

 

Unfortunately My set does not have a Game mode (it has others like Retail, Movie) and I've tried them all, I also tried the sharpness without much improvement.

 

So besides getting a new TV or just living with it is there anything else i can do?

 

Would a composite to HDMI scaler help?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

OK, so what I understand is that my TV can't handle the 30hz flicker and 96 pixel interleaved text of the display kernel. Other 2600 text displays fine on my set, So is it just how Fred decided to program the text for the Harmony or did it have to be that way because

of program considerations?

There are not many games that use 96 pixel interleaved. Have you tried Stellar Track or Dark Mage? Do those look ok?

[+SpiceWare]

Did you try the Space Rocks easter egg? A photo would be very useful.

[RevEng]

Maybe create an alternate firmware that uses straight flicker instead of flickerblinds? Flicker works better on modern TVs that decode the 240p as 480i. On those sets the flickerblinds creates horizontal gaps.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

We would probably need multiple alternative firmwares, because modern TVs react pretty different to flicker.

 

E.g. with simple flicker, some blank every 2nd line.

 

The only thing that works reliable is not using flicker. And that doesn't work here.

[alex_79]

So besides getting a new TV or just living with it is there anything else i can do?

 

 

 

Would a composite to HDMI scaler help?

A scaler might be the solution, even those built in a PVR or DVD recorder with composite inputs and hdmi output might do. Basically you bypass the scaler of the TV which is not dealing correclty with the progressive signal of the Atari. There are scalers specifically designed for video games which should be able to upscale a non interlaced signal, while generic scalers are hit and miss and you have to be lucky to pick one that does the job correctly.

 

Keep in mind that using the Atari (or other consoles/computers of the era) with a modern digital TV is always a compromise. Even if it can handle the progressive signal, there will always be some amount of lag (delay before the analog signal is received, decoded, upscaled and then displayed) which can kill playability of some games where precise timing and reflexes are needed. The TV also apply a series of filters to the image to make it look better when upscaled. Those filters are designed for movies and TV-shows and will degrade a computer generated image; moreover they increase the lag (which is not a problem if you're just wathcing a show) and that's why you should choose the "game" mode if the TV has one, or manually turn off all the picture-enhancing options.

 

A scaler specifically designed for retrogaming should help also in this aspect.

 

Anyway I always prefer (and therefore suggest) a CRT. If you have the room (there's not need for a large screen to enjoy the low-res Atari graphics) they can still be purchased cheaply and will improve the experience. You can also play Lightgun games which won't work with digital display and many technique used in atari games (like flicker) were designed with CRT in mind and work best with it.

 

The Atari is designed to be interfaced directly to a Cathode Ray Tube. There's no real workaround.

A PC configured to output the same native resolution of the TV, connected through HDMI, running stella and with usb joysticks (there are adapters to use original controllers including paddles and keypads) is the best solution if you like to use a modern display.

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by alex_79

[Everett1954]

I did try Dark Mage and Stellar Shuttle and while the font size was larger in both games and readable it appears just like the harmony text appears on my Flat screen. It looks like every other line is missing.

 

I decided to try a CRT and picked up a Sony CRT. I hooked it up to my 7800 via S-Video with the Harmony Encore and Wow was I surprised!!

 

Everything looks great, the Harmony Text, all the 2600 games are much sharper than they ever were on the Flat Screen.

 

While my other systems look great on my LCD, the CRT is now used exclusively for my 7800.