Error 140 on 1050

[spencerhm]

Hello all.

 

Recently bought a 800XL (runs perfectly) with two 1050 drives. When testing each 1050 individually one boots DOS 2.5 fine and I tested several options from the menu: format, lists directory, duplicates disks, etc. as D1 fine.

 

I tested the other drive and it will not boot DOS 2.5 as D1; I cleaned the head with 91% Isopropyl, blew it out with practically no dust; checked the PCB and nothing is leaky or busted. Didn't check underneath the metal box on the board yet. The power supply is ok. If I hook up the good 1050 and boot DOS and THEN disconnect the good drive and then hook up the one that isn't working (menu still on the screen) I then choose the Format option and it appears to format the disk (head moves forward and back on the rails) but I get ERROR 140.

 

Looking that up it appears "This means that communication from the device to the computer is garbled. This is a very rare error and it is fatal." What can fix this? Is there something a lay person can do to fix this or have it shipped out to be repaired or buy a logic board to replace the one inside the drive? Does it mean the logic board is bad? Is the drive good?

 

Anyone have experience with B & C Computer Visions Atari Sales and Service?

 

Thanks, Spencer.

[Rybags]

Serial input frame error. Serial IO uses start/stop bits 0/1 wrapped around each byte, this error means that the computer didn't receive a byte as expected.

I'd try a different serial cable, different port on the drive. If possible different computer.

 

Next up all I could suggest is pull the logic board and prize up slightly then reseat socketed chips.

Since you've got 2 drives you could even try the logic board in the other drive and see if it still does it, or try swapping chips, initial ones to try would be the 6507 and 6532.

[spencerhm]

Serial input frame error. Serial IO uses start/stop bits 0/1 wrapped around each byte, this error means that the computer didn't receive a byte as expected.

I'd try a different serial cable, different port on the drive. If possible different computer.

 

Next up all I could suggest is pull the logic board and prize up slightly then reseat socketed chips.

Since you've got 2 drives you could even try the logic board in the other drive and see if it still does it, or try swapping chips, initial ones to try would be the 6507 and 6532.

Didn't get a chance to swap chips yet; I did take the drive out of the unit not booting and put it in the unit that is working and the drive booted. Apparently it's likely to be one of those socketed chips. This weekend I try swapping out one chip at a time starting with the 6507 and 6532. Found these two chips at myatari.com but couldn't find the others from my system. I've attached a pic of the five socketed chips on my 1050 drive.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Spencer

[Rybags]

Swapping out chips should show up the problem so long as it's not a dodgy power supply board.

[spencerhm]

Does anyone have any 6507 or 6532 chips available to sell? myatari.com has them, but the fella is a very busy guy with his farm and it may be awhile for him to get time to get them out. I'm one of those that want it now. myatari.com has them for $5. I'll be glad to pay a little extra for working chips and pay the shipping (zip 30259), so if anyone has them I am very interested. AND don't want to spend $50 for a "parts" only 1050 from eBay! Those chips could be bad.

 

Thanks Spencer.

 

P.S. I removed the chips from my non-working drive and reseated them and it still didn't fix the problem, and now I at least know the physical drive works when I put it in the working unit. Guess I'm just VERY cautious (paranoid) to try swapping out chips from a working unit to put them in a non-working unit. If I had plenty of these chips on the shelf than no worries if I should break a pin - just grab another.

 

P.P.S. I did talk with Bruce (myatari.com) and he's a nice fella. He said what Rybags said, probably these two chips.

[spencerhm]

Swapping out chips should show up the problem so long as it's not a dodgy power supply board.

Yeah myatari.com said the same thing re: the power supply.

 

I'm working myself up to doing the chip swap; just a bit wary cause stuff can happen. So when I get the courage to remove chips on my working drive, do you recommend I swap the other three chips from my image?

 

Thanks!

[spencerhm]

Hello Rybags.

 

Ok I took the 6507 chip out of the working unit and put it in the unit not booting - no difference. Then I left the 6507 in the unit not booting and was going to add the 6532 chip from the working unit but the working unit does not have a 6532 chip; it has a 8402 chip, so I didn't try it because I wasn't sure if I should've. I've attached a pic.

 

Also I left the 6507 chip from the non-working unit in the working unit and it booted. So what I know now is the physical floppy drive and the 6507 chip from the non-working unit do in fact work. Is the 8402 chip an update of Atari or what? Also the chip controller chip in the working unit I cannot read the text printed on it, so I do not know what it is.

 

And those shields on the logic boards ya just don't have a lot of turns on those metal legs do ya? I don't know why the shield is there, but I put it back anyway; however one leg broke while turning to lock it.

 

I would be thankful for more thoughts.

 

Thanks, Spencer.

Edited August 28, 2016 by spencerhm

[spencerhm]

Rybags, oops here's the pic . . .

 

Spencer

 

[AtariGeezer]

Hello Rybags.

 

Is the 8402 chip an update of Atari or what? Also the chip controller chip in the working unit I cannot read the text printed on it, so I do not know what it is.

 

Thanks, Spencer.

The C010750 Chip is a MOS 6532 RAM-I/O-Timer (RIOT) Chip...

Edited August 28, 2016 by AtariGeezer

[Rybags]

The 8402 is Atari's made to order RIOT, model # CO10750. It should be OK to interchange with the 6532.

 

If possible I'd also check the back of the logic board, make sure there's not lots of dust or anything bridging pins.

 

Also, I assume you did a head clean on this drive?

[spencerhm]

The C010750 Chip is a MOS 6532 RAM-I/O-Timer (RIOT) Chip...

Would it be ok to swap it out for the 6532 chip in my 1050 unit not working??? There are three other chips that could be bad???

 

Thanks

[Rybags]

Should be fine - pretty unlikely Atari would have changed the pinout or function. These things are used in many peripheral types as well as ~ 35 million in 2600 and 7800s.

[BillC]

@Spencer:

 

FYI the "8402" is the manufacturing date of that chip, not the part#. CO10750 is the Atari internal part # for the 6532.

[spencerhm]

@Spencer:

 

FYI the "8402" is the manufacturing date of that chip, not the part#. CO10750 is the Atari internal part # for the 6532.

Thanks Bill. I'll swap them out in the next day or two.

[spencerhm]

Should be fine - pretty unlikely Atari would have changed the pinout or function. These things are used in many peripheral types as well as ~ 35 million in 2600 and 7800s.

Ok I took out the 6532 in the non-working unit and put in the C010750 chip - it still didn't boot. So it is possible to be one of the other three chips underneath the metal shield?

 

Thanks

[thorfdbg]

Ok I took out the 6532 in the non-working unit and put in the C010750 chip - it still didn't boot. So it is possible to be one of the other three chips underneath the metal shield?

IIRC, a typical cause for this problem was that one of the transistor arrays that drive the SIO port blew regularly up. Unfortunately, I forgot the type of the chip, but it's some standard serial driver that connects the internal outputs of the chips in the 1050 with the SIO port on the back. It should be a typical DIL chip close to the SIO port that requires replacement.

 

Probably somebody else can help out with the precise specification of this thing, I don't have the schematics here right now.

[BillC]

IIRC, a typical cause for this problem was that one of the transistor arrays that drive the SIO port blew regularly up. Unfortunately, I forgot the type of the chip, but it's some standard serial driver that connects the internal outputs of the chips in the 1050 with the SIO port on the back. It should be a typical DIL chip close to the SIO port that requires replacement.

 

Probably somebody else can help out with the precise specification of this thing, I don't have the schematics here right now.

U1, a CA3086. I believe unplugging the SIO cable with the drive powered on can cause this chip to fail.

Edited August 28, 2016 by BillC

[DavidMil]

I believe that you can get any of the 1050 chips at Best Electronic

bestelec@concentric.net

This doesn't sound like a power problem to me, but it wouldn't hurt to look at all the electrolytic capacitors in the back half of the drive to make sure none are swollen or leaking.

 

David

 

 

[spencerhm]

U1, a CA3086. I believe unplugging the SIO cable with the drive powered on can cause this chip to fail.

 

Hmm, that's interesting. This could be a high likelihood. I'll many people have done this not realizing. It's been a habit of mine for YEARS to JUST turn a device off before unplugging anything!!!!

 

Thanks Bill

[spencerhm]

I believe that you can get any of the 1050 chips at Best Electronic

bestelec@concentric.net

This doesn't sound like a power problem to me, but it wouldn't hurt to look at all the electrolytic capacitors in the back half of the drive to make sure none are swollen or leaking.

 

David

 

 

 

I'll take a look at Best Electronics - thanks for the link. My only fear is desoldering. I've only done it on board I didn't care about, AND I always seem to scratch the traces/lines. If I had several logic boards to learn from I could go for it. I guess at this point if a chip is hard soldered I can try because with the board not working what do I have to lose.

 

I'll check out your link - thanks!!!!

[spencerhm]

The 8402 is Atari's made to order RIOT, model # CO10750. It should be OK to interchange with the 6532.

 

If possible I'd also check the back of the logic board, make sure there's not lots of dust or anything bridging pins.

 

Also, I assume you did a head clean on this drive?

 

Eh don't know what I have left to try with this logic board. No dust bridging pins - that was a good tip.

 

Thanks Rybags!

[+kheller2]

I'll take a look at Best Electronics - thanks for the link. My only fear is desoldering. I've only done it on board I didn't care about, AND I always seem to scratch the traces/lines. If I had several logic boards to learn from I could go for it. I guess at this point if a chip is hard soldered I can try because with the board not working what do I have to lose.

 

I'll check out your link - thanks!!!!

You could snip the legs off U1 and then desolder each leg. Even a small 15-20W pencil stick from RadioShack would do fine with some wick or suction bulb wo cutting. And remember to socket it, not just resolder a new chip.

[spencerhm]

You could snip the legs off U1 and then desolder each leg. Even a small 15-20W pencil stick from RadioShack would do fine with some wick or suction bulb wo cutting. And remember to socket it, not just resolder a new chip.

 

My first thought, "that's awesome." My experience is not soldering at this level, but I'm not afraid. I never would've thought about socketing after chip removal, AND I would've never thought about snipping the legs and the desolder. That's experience!!!! Whenever I desoldered I didn't think about snipping the legs first - duh. I'll check Best Electronics for the chips.

 

Thank you!

[Rybags]

The best DIP desolder technique IMO by far is just leave the thing there and work on each pin in place. Apply heat with a fine-tip roughly parallel and so it's almost touching the board, should need one application per pin for about 10-15 seconds each then use a solder pump from the other side.

Move around so not to generate too much heat in one place. Leave the corner pins for last. Power/GND pins with fat traces might be harder, in those cases leave for last and just heat and pull the IC out then clean up later.

[DavidMil]

If you've not done much solder/desolder work, the main thing to remember is don't PRESS the soldering iron down into the solder joint!!! Let the weight of the iron do the

work. Someone said to snip the legs off the IC. This is the way I've done it for years, and it works very well, but remember to use a very sharp and very pointy set of cutters(don't try

to use diagonals). Keep the cutters perpendicular to the board and cut the legs as close to the IC as you can. When you've cut all the legs off and removed the IC, flip the board over

and cut off as much of the legs that protrude through the board (don't cut so close that you scratch the board). Now you can flip the board back over and use a fine set of

tweezers at the top of each leg while you apply the soldering iron to the base of the leg. Again don't press hard, be patient, when the solder melts just pull the leg of the IC up and

out of the circuit board.

One of the best things you can do to when desoldering, (and I highly recommend this) is that you buy a small tube/bottle of liquid flux. Use it liberally on all the solder joints.

Flux servers as a transfer medium for the heat and will cause the solder to melt MUCH faster. It also helps to prevent solder bridges from forming. After you have removed the

legs of the old IC, you'll need to get some solder wick (braded stranded copper), again apply some flux to the wick, rest the wick on the solder joint and put the iron on the edge

of the solder joint. This will draw the solder from the hole into the wick. Don't remove the iron too quickly as this may leave some of the solder in the hole.

One more thing; good soldering starts with a clean soldering iron tip. A dirty tip prevents heat transfer. When you get flux and desoldering wick, also get some sort of soldering

iron tip cleaner. After you clean the tip flow a liberal amount of solder over it and keep doing that each time you heat the tip and then again when you power the iron off. If the solder

doesn't stick to the tip, clean the tip some again using the tip cleaner . Also I use a wet sponge every so often on the tip while using it (this removes any crud that collects on the tip

during use) just drag the soldering iron tip over the wet sponge so that the direction is from the handle to the tip of the iron (the tip of the iron is the last thing to touch the sponge).

 

All this stuff (flux, desoldering wick, and tip cleaner) can be purchased through Radio Shack or any online electronics parts outlet.

 

WOW. This turned into a beginners lesson on soldering. Sorry, my wife says I'm long winded too!

 

David