Good paddle controller?

[sanny]

Hi,

 

I've got the Atari paddle controllers, but they are somehow "jittery".

 

I remember playing Arkanoid and Gigas arcade machines in the 80s and early 90s, and their controllers seemed to be much superior (at least, that's what I think I remember ).

 

Do they still sell arcade spinners? If yes, how difficult would it be to adapt one to the Atari?

 

If I would build such a controller I would also like to be able to connect it to a PC in order to play the above mentioned games with MAME. How would one connect such a controller to the PC?

 

regards,

chris

 

[Rybags]

Paddles use pots which over time get crud and corrosion which induces jitter, the solution is either replace them or in some cases they can be serviced.

 

Spinners will generally use a system that generates a gray code sequence in similar fashion to a mouse axis, so might be wheel with electrical contacts picked up by fingers or optical sensors using a wheel with perforations.

Atari's driving controller is a spinner type though only has 32 (?) output changes over a rotation, I would imagine decent arcade ones would have been a good deal better.

In theory you could make your own spinner fairly easily using the guts from an old ball mouse.

Actually you could make one with the guts of an optical mouse as well, just give it a cylinder of several inches diameter as the rotating read surface.

[Spanner]

Mine still work after all this time,they came with the Atari VCS I have and they rattle like a bit of plastic has come off inside,they work on my Atari 800XL,130XE and my C64.don't know if they will work with one of those usb adapters that plug into the PC so you can use a old joysticks like the Atari joystick or Quickshot..

 

Love playing Arkanoid with them..

Edited September 6, 2016 by Spanner

[Paul Westphal]

Just take off the back, spray the inside of the pot with good electronics wash and quickly turn the paddle left and right. Repeat. Afterwards you can blast them out with an air hose or an equivalent. I just did three pairs like this yesterday. Yummy.

[sanny]

Thanks for the hints to fix the Atari paddle controllers (Paul).

 

But, hmm, now I'd really like to build a controller with a real arcade spinner. This appears to be rather difficult, if the spinners behave more like the Driving Controllers. I guess, not many (probably none?) of the paddle games support the Driving Controller. I'm not a hardware guy and I have no idea how to create such an adapter. The spinner/driving-controller movement would have to be represented as a resistance valiue. Is this even possible?

[Rybags]

They're totally different input types, paddle is a single resistance value which is converted to an 8-bit number by A-D method.

Spinner/driving controller is gray code generator, usually a 2 bit value which infinitely rolls through 4 possible values, only one bit changing each time which so long as it's not moving too fast and is sampled reasonably frequently allows position and direction to be determined.

 

About the only software that will work with both is emulators like Mame but even then, using paddles on a PC isn't common. And anyone "purist" will use real old computers rather than emulation and the 2 types of controller aren't easily interchangable.

 

An infinitely moving paddle type could be done either with help from a PIC or similar or by some pretty complex wiring but even then paddle games just don't expect the value to suddenly wrap from maximum back to minimum. The game would just assume you've moved it back so e.g. in Breakout the bat would just suddenly jump from full right to full left.

[Irgendwer]

But, hmm, now I'd really like to build a controller with a real arcade spinner. This appears to be rather difficult, if the spinners behave more like the Driving Controllers. I guess, not many (probably none?) of the paddle games support the Driving Controller. I'm not a hardware guy and I have no idea how to create such an adapter. The spinner/driving-controller movement would have to be represented as a resistance valiue. Is this even possible?

 

 

Seems you like to do something what the CMI08 (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/134949-advance-orders-for-cmi08-ps2-mouse-interface/) does...

[sanny]

Seems you like to do something what the CMI08 (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/134949-advance-orders-for-cmi08-ps2-mouse-interface/) does...

 

I guess yes. How is the resistance value generated there? I'm not a hardware guy.

[Irgendwer]

 

I guess yes. How is the resistance value generated there? I'm not a hardware guy.

 

 

Ok, here the schematics of the CMI08. The µC analyses the PS/2 mouse movements and uses the CMOS-switches to short-cut or establish resistors for a pot value.

You can save a lot of wire, µC port pins & PCB space, when using a "Digi-Pot" instead. These are usually served via a serial protocol and output the resistor value based on that numerical input - my current USB design uses the AD5242 f.e. (hadn't a source for it when creating the CMI08).

 

BTW: Here a 'funny' kind of spinner hack:

Using a cheap (mechanical) mouse as base for a spinner is generally a good idea, since you need some extra logic anyway (e.g. LM339 - schematics of the ST-mouse http://fglukas.lima-city.de/bilder/maussch.gif).

Edited September 8, 2016 by Irgendwer

[Stefan Both]

I made some, a couple of weeks ago

for Mr.Atari.

Used bigger, more stable potentiometer made for

music instruments.

No jittering at all.

You "could" use conductive pots.

Not cheap at a, but nearly no wear.

 

Stefan

[Android8675]

I made some, a couple of weeks ago

for Mr.Atari.

Used bigger, more stable potentiometer made for

music instruments.

No jittering at all.

You "could" use conductive pots.

Not cheap at a, but nearly no wear.

 

Stefan

 

Those are pretty, 3d printed cases? Been thinking about getting some paddles...

[Stefan Both]

Those are pretty, 3d printed cases? Been thinking about getting some paddles...

No. Milled aluminium.

It was made for his game "lost in Space".

The paddle color matches the players lunar lander.

Stefan

Edited September 9, 2016 by Stefan Both

[sanny]

IUsed bigger, more stable potentiometer made for

music instruments.

No jittering at all.

 

Hmm, that also might be an option. No µController needed and therefore simpler to attach to an Atari.

 

Do you have a link to such potentiometers?

 

regards,

chris

[Stefan Both]

 

Do you have a link to such potentiometers?

 

regards,

chris

http://m.ebay.de/itm/ALPHA-GUITAR-POTENTIOMETER-CHOOSE-FROM-250K-OR-500K-LIN-OR-LOG-18mm-SHAFT-/190711809996?var=&hash=item2c674f47cc%3Am%3Am2pCiWyhrsVDNEAb-GJ7Cag&_trkparms=pageci%253A943fca76-76b7-11e6-92ce-005056b688dc%257Cparentrq%253A101d82911570a788469e0a92ffffaa9f%257Ciid%253A31

 

No need to buy exactly those Potis.

You should take care however, you buy LINear potentiometer NOT LOGarithmic ones

Stefan

Edited September 9, 2016 by Stefan Both

[sanny]

http://m.ebay.de/itm/ALPHA-GUITAR-POTENTIOMETER-CHOOSE-FROM-250K-OR-500K-LIN-OR-LOG-18mm-SHAFT-/190711809996?var=&hash=item2c674f47cc%3Am%3Am2pCiWyhrsVDNEAb-GJ7Cag&_trkparms=pageci%253A943fca76-76b7-11e6-92ce-005056b688dc%257Cparentrq%253A101d82911570a788469e0a92ffffaa9f%257Ciid%253A31

 

Which type is the better one? I guess "LIN", not "LOG", but 250K or 500K?

[Stefan Both]

Which type is the better one? I guess "LIN", not "LOG", but 250K or 500K?

LIN, but it does not matter, if you choose 250 or 500 kohm.

[Irgendwer]

 

Which type is the better one? I guess "LIN", not "LOG", but 250K or 500K?

 

AFAIK original Atari paddles have 1M. 500K seems to be ok to get a full range on most machines, but 250k is definitely to low.

 

Edit: See also https://www.robotcompany.ca/tag/atari/

Edited September 10, 2016 by Irgendwer