Jump to content

Photo

Talking with CPUWIZ about 256k carts. What can we do in bB?


40 replies to this topic

#1 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

Gemintronic

    Jason S. - Lead Developer & CEO

  • 8,955 posts

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:44 PM

So, I revived an inquiry about 256k carts with CPUWIZ.  He's going to get back with me on how many are available and at what price.

 

Pending that, what would a batari BASIC user do with all that space?  We can't make the graphics any better.  The advantage here would be way more storage for game data.

 

I had my Tunnel's & Trolls idea with a lot of game modes.  So, that's one idea.  Also, a batari BASIC multi cart featuring bB games.

 

Any other ideas?  What would you do?



#2 moycon OFFLINE  

moycon

    Quadrunner

  • 22,017 posts
  • moycon?? What the hell is that??
  • Location:Rome, GA

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:49 PM

Dragons Lair 2600!!

 

That or Knight Rider.



#3 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

Gemintronic

    Jason S. - Lead Developer & CEO

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,955 posts

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:54 PM

Dragons Lair 2600!!

 

That or Knight Rider.

 

Knight Rider is a failed project that's greatly derided.  I'd rather not be compared to that.  Especially since I have a proven track record of finished, published games.

 

How would dragons lair work?  The playfield is still around 11x32 view able pixels.  I could use the title screen kernel.. probably.  I might get 64 banks with one title screen each.  Still not enough.  How would your vision work?



#4 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

CPUWIZ

    Commander

  • 34,064 posts
  • I am the one who knocks!
  • Location:SoCal

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:10 PM

I think I have 98 of the second 100 batch and 95 of the flawed Rev.A.  The black ones are Rev.B....

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_1468.JPG


#5 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

Gemintronic

    Jason S. - Lead Developer & CEO

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,955 posts

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:36 PM

I think I have 98 of the second 100 batch and 95 of the flawed Rev.A.  The black ones are Rev.B....

 

 

 

PM sent :)



#6 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

Random Terrain

    Visual batari Basic User

  • 28,689 posts
  • Controlled Randomness
    Replay Value
    Nonlinear
  • Location:North Carolina (USA)

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:51 PM

The main thing I want is DPC+ with more variables. I don't want to mess around with a special stack. Just give me a bunch of easy-to-use variables and I'll be happy.



#7 moycon OFFLINE  

moycon

    Quadrunner

  • 22,017 posts
  • moycon?? What the hell is that??
  • Location:Rome, GA

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:54 PM

 

Knight Rider is a failed project that's greatly derided.  I'd rather not be compared to that. 

 

But it's also a game many people wanted and believed in if only for a brief time.

 

I'd also add Swordquest Air World to the games I'd love to see released on the Atari 2600 that would benefit from additional space i think. That also was another game that was onced seriously announced, had a lot of interest, but was never completed. 

If you actually released a version of Knight Rider or Air World, you couldn't be compared to the previous attempts.



#8 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

Gemintronic

    Jason S. - Lead Developer & CEO

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,955 posts

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:55 PM

The main thing I want is DPC+ with more variables. I don't want to mess around with a special stack. Just give me a bunch of easy-to-use variables and I'll be happy.

 

Pretty sure the 256k carts are not DPC+ or have extra RAM. :(



#9 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

Gemintronic

    Jason S. - Lead Developer & CEO

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,955 posts

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:56 PM

 

But it's also a game many people wanted and believed in if only for a brief time.

 

I'd also add Swordquest Air World to the games I'd love to see released on the Atari 2600. That also was another game that was onced seriously announced, had a lot of interest, but was never completed. 

If you actually released a version of Knight Rider or Air World, you couldn't be compared to the previous attempts.

 

So, what about the Swordquest game(s) appealed to you?



#10 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

CPUWIZ

    Commander

  • 34,064 posts
  • I am the one who knocks!
  • Location:SoCal

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:51 PM

 

Pretty sure the 256k carts are not DPC+ or have extra RAM. :(

 

 

They are not, but they can utilize SARA RAM, if you use traditional bankswitching, instead of SuperBanking, which requires no ROM space.



#11 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

Gemintronic

    Jason S. - Lead Developer & CEO

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,955 posts

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:59 PM

 

 

They are not, but they can utilize SARA RAM, if you use traditional bankswitching, instead of SuperBanking, which requires no ROM space.

 

I see RevEng posted a 256k SC version of his framework.  I'll double check to see if it uses traditional bankswitching or not.

http://atariage.com/...nel-frameworks/



#12 adamchevy OFFLINE  

adamchevy

    Stargunner

  • 1,257 posts
  • Location:Duchesne, Utah

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:09 PM

What about an adventure style game or an rpg of some kind? It would be awesome to have a dragon quest/ final fantasy style game.

#13 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

Gemintronic

    Jason S. - Lead Developer & CEO

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,955 posts

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:17 PM

What about an adventure style game or an rpg of some kind? It would be awesome to have a dragon quest/ final fantasy style game.

 

I did have that idea for:

 

Grand Thievery Adventure: Chalice City

Starring Blocky Vermicelli

 

:)



#14 wallaby OFFLINE  

wallaby

    Chopper Commander

  • 100 posts

Posted Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:27 PM

256k is larger than most Nintendo games, isn't it?

 

You could have more complex games, but part of the appeal of Atari development is that you have a small space to make something fun.

 

I'd use extra space for more sprites and backgrounds mostly.



#15 KaeruYojimbo OFFLINE  

KaeruYojimbo

    Stargunner

  • 1,661 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR

Posted Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:57 AM

I'd also add Swordquest Air World to the games I'd love to see released on the Atari 2600 that would benefit from additional space i think. That also was another game that was onced seriously announced, had a lot of interest, but was never completed. 

If you actually released a version of Knight Rider or Air World, you couldn't be compared to the previous attempts.

 

Last year at PRGE Tod Frye said he'd like to go back and finish Air World. Of course, wanting to do it and actually doing it are 2 different things.

 

I'd probably use 256k to do some sort of multi-game cart rather than one big game. Personally I've never seen the appeal in doing an RPG or Zelda-style adventure on the 2600. There are so many platforms that handle those games better. But maybe someone can make a really good one and prove me wrong.


Edited by KaeruYojimbo, Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:58 AM.


#16 toiletunes OFFLINE  

toiletunes

    River Patroller

  • 3,799 posts
  • Hater Brigader
  • Location:Salem, Mo 65560 USA

Posted Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:14 AM

What about a Marathon Multicart, for tournaments? Start with a game with a winnable ending, like Airlock. Once Airlock is beaten, the cart switches to Space Attack. Pack in as many beatable games as space allows. Or, include games like Oink and program the cart to switch games at a predetermined score, like the patch score. Include a set order for tournament play, but include a Random option for hard core gamers.

Either that, or a Rom-intensive fantasy epic, but I think a multicart would be easier to put together and more likely to be finalized.



#17 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

Gemintronic

    Jason S. - Lead Developer & CEO

  • Topic Starter
  • 8,955 posts

Posted Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:38 PM

What about a Marathon Multicart, for tournaments? Start with a game with a winnable ending, like Airlock. Once Airlock is beaten, the cart switches to Space Attack. Pack in as many beatable games as space allows. Or, include games like Oink and program the cart to switch games at a predetermined score, like the patch score. Include a set order for tournament play, but include a Random option for hard core gamers.

Either that, or a Rom-intensive fantasy epic, but I think a multicart would be easier to put together and more likely to be finalized.

 

So, instead of yet another multi-cart you now have a warioware style game.  OoooooOoh!!  NICE!



#18 iesposta OFFLINE  

iesposta

    River Patroller

  • 3,738 posts
  • Retro-gaming w/my VCS
  • Location:Pennsylvania

Posted Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:01 PM

Dragons Lair 2600!!

 

That or Knight Rider.

Re: Dragons Lair 2600

Would a top-down view be acceptable if it had ALL areas, or must it be 3rd person looking from behind Dirk?

I've thought about a top down Dragon's Lair for years, but basically it is just memorize the directions and sword button pattern.

Thoughts?



#19 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

Random Terrain

    Visual batari Basic User

  • 28,689 posts
  • Controlled Randomness
    Replay Value
    Nonlinear
  • Location:North Carolina (USA)

Posted Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:13 PM

I read somewhere that arcade Dragon's Lair had dance steps that weren't chiseled in stone (unlike the 3DO version). Even if the dance steps weren't always the same, there were still dance steps to learn, so that's probably why I hardly put any quarters into the machine. The game sure was pretty, though:

 

archive.org/stream/electronic-games-magazine-1983-11/Electronic_Games_Issue_21_Vol_02_09_1983_Nov#page/n21/mode/1up



#20 iesposta OFFLINE  

iesposta

    River Patroller

  • 3,738 posts
  • Retro-gaming w/my VCS
  • Location:Pennsylvania

Posted Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:22 PM

I read somewhere that arcade Dragon's Lair had dance steps that weren't chiseled in stone (unlike the 3DO version). Even if the dance steps weren't always the same, there were still dance steps to learn, so that's probably why I hardly put any quarters into the machine. The game sure was pretty, though:
 
archive.org/stream/electronic-games-magazine-1983-11/Electronic_Games_Issue_21_Vol_02_09_1983_Nov#page/n21/mode/1up

When I played Dragon's Lair when it came out, I quickly learned the whole game and on one play, (was it 2 quarters?), we would even die at certain spots to make the final score higher.
Today I can't remember it all and get about halfway through.

I have noticed thing like this:
The opening drawbridge scene, when Dirk falls through the floor, using Sword button continues OR using Up works and will continue the game.
Is this what you mean "not chiseled in stone"?

#21 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

Random Terrain

    Visual batari Basic User

  • 28,689 posts
  • Controlled Randomness
    Replay Value
    Nonlinear
  • Location:North Carolina (USA)

Posted Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:14 PM

Is this what you mean "not chiseled in stone"?


I'm just making something up as an example here. If on one screen you had to step three times to the left, go forward once, pinch the ass of a goblin to the right, then hop forward twice on the 3DO version every time, you may not have to do those exact steps in that order on the arcade version every time. The steps you must take supposedly aren't always the same. I never played the arcade game long enough to find out. Back when the arcade game was new, I assumed all of the dance steps were set in stone.



#22 moycon OFFLINE  

moycon

    Quadrunner

  • 22,017 posts
  • moycon?? What the hell is that??
  • Location:Rome, GA

Posted Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:00 PM

 

So, what about the Swordquest game(s) appealed to you?

Initially, probably the contest, and the fantasy elements. I remember when my friend got Earthworld we stayed up till 2am and played that game non-stop the entire time. I don't recall if we ever beat the game, I know we would get the clues and write them down, but have no idea if we found all the clues, or what the significance was. I snagged Fireworld as well. I remember thinking the game seemed much less polished than the first. There was more mini-games, but most seemed half-assed and ugly. I still recall playing that game a lot as a kid. I don't think like I ever felt I got anywhere in it.

 

These days the appeal would be to finally see some closure to what was a great idea. I would imagine a much better game could be made now and would totally support any attempt to finish the series!  



#23 moycon OFFLINE  

moycon

    Quadrunner

  • 22,017 posts
  • moycon?? What the hell is that??
  • Location:Rome, GA

Posted Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:20 PM

I'm just making something up as an example here. If on one screen you had to step three times to the left, go forward once, pinch the ass of a goblin to the right, then hop forward twice on the 3DO version every time, you may not have to do those exact steps in that order on the arcade version every time. The steps you must take supposedly aren't always the same. 

 

They might not all be exactly the same but they were pretty close. I was like esposta and could get to the end in one man and on the last move (where you throw the sword) I wouldn't hit the button, so I could play that entire sequence again, and get the maximum points. I have the 36O version and never noticed a wildly different pattern when playing. What I did notice is it seemed to be on a HARD setting which couldn't be changed in the home version and ment that you had to have your timing just right or if would count as a death. The Dragons Lair at my local arcade must have been on a forgiving setting. (Easy) They gave you 5 men to start, and with a few exceptions as long as you knew the next move, (example: Left) you could just hit the joystick left over and over, it's would make a dull noise until the move was valid in the game then it would make a high plink noise that ment it registered, and you could then start doing the same for the rest of the moves in the sequence. As far as lots of different choices, there wasn't really a lot. One that came to mind was the rapids sequence you could either push forward if you were directly in front of the opening, or left or right earlier depending on where you were in the water. The difference probably was you could only use the forward at a very particular moment and would have gotten more points. These type of "not chiseled in stone" moments were not common though.From what I recall, for the majority of the game you have to take the same steps every time or it's a death.

 

Not sure how Dragons Lair would translate to an Atari 2600, but I'm sure it could be done! It worked for Halo.



#24 Papa OFFLINE  

Papa

    Dragonstomper

  • 751 posts

Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:11 AM

256k is larger than most Nintendo games, isn't it?

 

You could have more complex games, but part of the appeal of Atari development is that you have a small space to make something fun.

 

I'd use extra space for more sprites and backgrounds mostly.

 

I think about things like this a lot.  One must take into account how sprites are drawn beyond the VCS.  256k would help with game complexity, but you'd still be stuck with 4k for graphics.

 

What I'm getting at is (and I've yammered about this before) that people compare one version of a game to another without considering the processes by which the systems display the games and their limitations.  I think the Atari has some advantages over systems that use real sprite data as your using smaller, single or low color lines for characters rather than complex multicolored bitmaps (although the complex multicolored 'sprites' I make on the VCS cause it to cough up rainbows in 8k!).



#25 karokoenig OFFLINE  

karokoenig

    River Patroller

  • 2,129 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:00 AM

I'd rather have a larger adventure/rpg than something like Dragon's Lair. No  JRPG please. More like AD&D or The Bard's Tale.






0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users