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Arcade Multicade Conversions, your thoughts on them

mame jamma multicade arcade coin williams conversion

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#1 Polybius OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:53 PM

We have seen them a lot lately, people making multi-cades, where people have machines made with multiple titles in one machine, even original machines have been converted in this manner. its not uncommon now to find a machine, most likely with the artwork from the original, but with new internals and controls, and a board with many different games on it.   

 

My question is, how do you feel about people taking original arcade machines and converting them into multicades? 



#2 SIO2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:10 PM

I am fine with it. I just put a 7800 system into an original arcade cab. The machine had been gutted long ago. I kept the original art and control layout so everything is reversible if anybody really wanted to do that but these days new parts are cheaper and cleaner (less rats nest of wires) plus you get more games in less space.

I am not a fan of the projects that try to squeeze every control combo onto the panel though. It changes the look of the machine and doesn't look real playable.

#3 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:49 PM

I love them, it's the new way to do things. I couldnt imagine filling a basement, no matter how big, full of these things when you can put 10 or 20 similarly configured games in one cab. It'd overwhelm anyone except for arcade owners.

While basement full of arcade games sounds good, it really isn't.

#4 Polybius OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:23 PM

Im kinda on the fence with it. I would never convert a rare machine, like a sitdown Sinistar, Star wars, or sigma's "Spiders",   but a common one like Centepede I probably could. Maybe a rare one if I found it already gutted, but I would definetly keep the original artwork preserved. 

 

More than likely, I would probably build a multicade myself, either from scratch, or else maybe convert that Mega Touch 6 Bartop game I have. The Screen recently burned out on me, and I need to do something with it. (if i put a touch screen back in it, I might as well, they are expensive!) 


Edited by Polybius, Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:25 PM.


#5 SIO2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:19 AM

New cabs are available also.

http://www.arcadesho...ts/cabinets.htm

#6 racerx ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:23 AM

While basement full of arcade games sounds good, it really isn't.

 

Let's just say I disagree.  ;)

DSC_3645_zps127563b2.jpg

 

I've got no issues with people building cabinets for their mame or 60-1 or 412-1 or ArcadeSD setups, but people who convert complete cabinets, working or not, are the lowest of the low.  I mean, what's the point?  If you just want to play the games, every arcade game ever released could probably be loaded on your phone.  Get a modded Xbox.  Run mame on your pc with a tank stick.

Yes, we collect these machines because they're fun, bu also because they're pieces of history that are vanishing at a rapid rate.  Machines that survived being converted or sent to the dump by ops bitd are now being murdered by people cranking out Craigslist 60-1s.  It's depressing.  Tron isn't the greatest game, but I've got one not only because I played it to death as a kid, but also because the cab is a work of art.  Crystal Castles is a fun enough game but sweet Jesus...look at that cabinet!  Gorf is a unique mix of video and EM machines, with its pinball-esque rank lights.  Even the way it generates voice is cool.  Warlords has the sweet 3D background effect with the silvered mirror.  This isn't stuff you get with emulation, and it's stuff that'll be lost in time as these cabinets disappear.

 

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It took me two years to track down the Warlords I picked up over the weekend.  Atari only built 1014 of the uprights, and likely less than half that survived until today.  This site would be full of torches and pitchforks if people started putting Raspberry Pi's into heavy sixers, and those are positively common by comparison to arcade cabinets.

There are a hundred ways to play old games without butchering a vintage piece of hardware.


Edited by racerx, Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:26 AM.


#7 VectorGamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:36 AM

It depends on what cabinet it is.

 

I have a Congorilla cabinet that came with a 4 board Donkey Kong set that I couldn't get working. I put the board set on eBay and ultimately installed a 412-in-1 board in the cabinet to have something that could be played. But, the cabinet hasn't been sodomized with two joysticks, 12 buttons and a trackball. I left the control panel as-is and only had to install a button behind the coin door.

 

Stay classy when converting arcade cabs...



#8 Mitkraft OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:02 AM

I have mixed feelings.  First off X-in-1 boards pretty much generally all suck.  The game play on these boards is sub-par when compared with the originals and most of them are running some old hacked version of mame under the hood which means you are supporting piracy not only of the original roms but of mame when you buy them.  I'm less judgy of doing it with mame for your own purposes and making it yourself but I dislike the practice of making and selling these (both the boards and the conversions) as a commercial practice.  I also don't believe in hacking a working or reparable game to make one.  I think the real bottom feeders are the guys that snag good working games that come up cheap, sell the guts and make them a 60-in-1 to resell.



#9 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:09 PM

I'm content to appreciate and discuss the cab collections of others on the occasional day off garage-hobby day. I can appreciate a completely restored stand-alone single-game cab and the techniques that went into making it happen. It just isn't for me to collect and maintain. Let alone get into the individual personality of each machine - of which thousands can be stored and saved in a chip no bigger than this [-].

 

To me a cabinet is a cabinet. A structure. A container to pre-position a set of controls, speakers, and CRT smack-dab in your face with the express purpose of taking money out your pocket. None of these cabs were constructed with the betterment of you as a person in mind.

 

However let me clarify my position on multicades. They should be elegant, and attention to detail should be attended to every step of the way. Right down to moldings and screen fitting. They also shouldn't try to be all games for all people. That's just tacky and never turns out well. First order of business with a multicade is getting a handle on messy control panels full of buttons. That's just gotta go.

 

My preferred method of playing the classics still remains a state-of-the-art emulation machine, a small set top box and whatever size screen/monitor fits the mood. And of course ergonomic arcade-quality controls for each of my favorite games - which can be anywhere from a mouse/keyboard to an arcade-like panel with Spinner, Fire, and SuperZapper.

 

I also believe that bartop multicades (of all sizes) have a kind of a cute appeal. They're the baby version of the big bad arcade cabinets of yore. And in the spirit of multicades - this winter - I'm thinking of a new project. Something like a bartop sans the control panel. You have to have modular controls because many games are so different, Assault, Star Wars, Centipede, and Tempest.. Each really needs its own controller and layout. One layout simply does not work. Anything beyond a combination of 2 or 3 sets of controls becomes a cluttered mess.

 

So right now I'm thinking along the lines of a hypothetical Super Vectrex. Perhaps 2x larger in all dimensions. Powersupply, system boards, display, LCD marquee, speakers, all in the main unit.. along with a comprehensive set of connections for any conceivable control arrangement - PC USB and PS/2, IPAC, DB9 & BlissBox connectivity, mouse and keyboard, and whatever else might be practical. With such an array of interface options, controllers would never be an issue.

 

---

 

Someone mentioned classic radios. People from the "Maker society" are scooping them up and gutting them, replacing the tubes and stuff and all the internals with modern day electronics. Sometimes even repurposing them into computers and routers and god knows what else.

 

That's bastardized! These radios were crafted in X manner. To serve a purpose in the home, combining style and aesthetics and performance. A synergistic whole. A kind of pride and craftsmanship that isn't exhibited in all products, and certainly not any consumer product today.

 

Not even arcade cabinets fall into this category. And if you argue it does, ok. But I just don't see it. Arcade cabinets, like cartridges, were a means to an end. A way of housing and containing a commercial amusement device whose sole purpose was to drain your wallet.

 

I also argue the point that emulators are a labor of love, moreso than any one individual arcade game cab, because of all the time and detail and reverse engineering that goes into them. Consider grand projects spanning decades, like MAME. There is no apparent motive here other than to showcase one's programming skills and present games in a playable manner. MAME isn't out there to collect your money. MAME isn't out there to subvert the coin-op industry. MAME is like a topical medication that soothes the itch of nostalgia.

 

 



#10 racerx ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:57 PM

To me a cabinet is a cabinet. A structure. A container to pre-position a set of controls, speakers, and CRT smack-dab in your face with the express purpose of taking money out your pocket. None of these cabs were constructed with the betterment of you as a person in mind.
Someone mentioned classic radios. People from the "Maker society" are scooping them up and gutting them, replacing the tubes and stuff and all the internals with modern day electronics. Sometimes even repurposing them into computers and routers and god knows what else.
 
That's bastardized! These radios were crafted in X manner. To serve a purpose in the home, combining style and aesthetics and performance. A synergistic whole. A kind of pride and craftsmanship that isn't exhibited in all products, and certainly not any consumer product today.
 
Not even arcade cabinets fall into this category. And if you argue it does, ok. But I just don't see it. Arcade cabinets, like cartridges, were a means to an end. A way of housing and containing a commercial amusement device whose sole purpose was to drain your wallet.
 
 

 
Art is art.

I think paintings of soup cans are stupid, but it seemed to work for Warhol.

You simply can't look at a Magical Spot, or a Tron, or even something like a Space Zap and not see the design, the artistry that went into it.  There are entire books devoted to video game artwork.  These aren't simple boxes to hold components.  There were artists behind each cabinet, and that's to say nothing of the cleverness, the elegance of the engineering that went into making these things entertain us with nothing more than late 70's/early 80's tech.  That's what makes them unique.  Why replace all that, everything that makes it special, with a computer that you could just as easily play at your desk, or on your lap?
 
After the arcade crash, I really never got back into them, despite being high school age in the late 80s.  At least part of the reason were the number of conversions on the floor.  Operators did what they had to do to survive, and many a Golden Age cab was converted to the latest side scroller or beat 'em up.  But there was no magic to a conversion.  There was no excitement of hitting Aladdin's Castle just to see what new machine was on the floor.  They were, as you say, reduced to "structures."
 
The fact of the matter is this hobby, whether arcade or console (and to a lesser extent, computer), revolves around collecting its physical incarnations.  It's about preservation.  Not just the software...that's in the cloud, and safe forever.  It's readily accessed by anyone with an internet connection.  It's about the hardware.  Making sure it's around for the future.  To show off a rarity.  To reminisce, when hooking your childhood heavy sixer up for your kids to play.  None of us would be here on this forum, AtariAge itself would not exist, were that not the case.  If "playing the games" were all that truly mattered, we'd just boot up our collections on Stella or flash our Harmony cart with every rom ever, and this site would be no more than a "High Score" or "Tips 'n' Tricks" page.

tl:dr...enjoy your emulated games.  They're fun.  But don't convert dedicated arcade cabinets to do it.  Not only is it not necessary, but once you've separated that board and cabinet, it's that much more difficult for a real collector to restore it back to what it should be.



#11 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:19 PM

I effectively left the scene when beat'em-ups and racing games took over. One game seemed to be like the next like the next ad'infinitum.

 

---

 

All the arcade cab and bartop construction projects I've overseen for neighbors family and friends (and select clientele) have been born of new material, mostly. Sure I've come across a few stripped cabs, ones likely too far gone for any one individual to fix outside of a specialty restoration shop, and even then..? In that respect I haven't gone and trashed one piece of art to make another lesser piece of art - like those Atari VCS or Nintendo lamps. Just not quite right. So tacky. Inelegant.

 

Some cabs that have been water damaged and were rotting from bottom-up became good sources of free wood and particle board and screws and fitments for the numerous bartops I've made. A bartop is naturally smaller and always half-height. So in essence we just cut away the rot. Or imposed a template on the side and cut out a new part. A smaller size for a smaller bartop.

 

I've run into circuit boards that had green residue and rust deposits commensurate with flooding. And while I have a couple of cartons of those still remaining in one of the garages, I don't see how they could be made functional without redoing a lot of the traces. Too much replating and relaminating. It's not like restoring a classic computer where the clock battery pissed all over a localized area of the board.

 

---

 

IDK, But I still feel a special sense of awe and wonder, whatever you wanna call it, when I sit down to play a session of I'Robot or Gyruss. Even if on a $299 hp computer from wal-mart. Pretty much the exact same as I did when playing these in Aladdin's Castle or PinPan Alley or any ol'arcade.

 

When I get going on Tac/Scan and Assault it's like a Zen experience. I get all smushy over the world of the game, the electronics, the software..Not the cabinet or artwork or aura that surrounds it all. Though I understand completely how others enjoy it. And that's just fine.



#12 SIO2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:40 PM

Well, I don't feel bad about doing what I did with my cab.  I love the glow of the marquee and the coin door lights and setting on my bar stool playing Dintar's new 2600 Pac-man with a real arcade joystick feels fantastic.  I have to think that the machine is happier too being able to amuse again.  It may be a rat rod but I like it.



#13 Dauber OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:02 AM

How about kind of going the other way around: taking a de-commissioned arcade cab, taking one of those 60-in-1 multicade thingies, and permanently setting it to the game the cabinet is from? I have seen a Burgertime like this: basically,the Burgertime cabinet was converted to another game (don't remember which one), but the owner wanted to make it a Burgertime again...but all he had on hand (at the time) was a multicade with Burgertime in it, so he used that instead but just has it permanently set to Burgertime. That way, you're still playing Burgertime in a Burgertime cabinet with Burgertime controls...



#14 VectorGamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:09 AM

How about kind of going the other way around: taking a de-commissioned arcade cab, taking one of those 60-in-1 multicade thingies, and permanently setting it to the game the cabinet is from? I have seen a Burgertime like this: basically,the Burgertime cabinet was converted to another game (don't remember which one), but the owner wanted to make it a Burgertime again...but all he had on hand (at the time) was a multicade with Burgertime in it, so he used that instead but just has it permanently set to Burgertime. That way, you're still playing Burgertime in a Burgertime cabinet with Burgertime controls...

 

Timeline Arcade in York did this with their Galaxian cab. They threw in a 60-in-1 and enabled only Galaga and Galaxian. When I saw it and the LCD monitor I was pretty disappointed to be honest.



#15 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:39 AM

257 by me has several LCD single-game "conversions". I'm not sure what to make of them.



#16 Cynicaster OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:25 PM

I know someone who literally rescued an old cabinet from the side of the road, probably a few hours before it was picked up by garbage collection and smashed in a compactor.  Nothing of any value was left—no monitor, no harnesses, no boards, no controls, no salvageable art.  In fact, it was painted black so to the average person it wasn’t even plainly obvious which game it originally was (might have been Zaxxon, Centipede… I forget).  He brought it home, made some structural fortifications to it, prettied it up a bit, and used it for MAME.  He posted a video on YouTube and got his ass reamed so bad he ended up pulling the video down.  That’s just not a reasonable reaction if you ask me, I don’t care how much you love arcade machines.  This cabinet’s fate was plainly either going to be MAME or junk yard… so what’s the big deal?   

 

I’ve seen a lot of ranting on the net about converting classic cabinets to MAME or 60-in-1, and in principle I agree with the rants, but only to the point where the person doing the conversion is using a cabinet that has any real-world chance of being its original self again.  There are a lot of boxes out there that realistically do not have that chance.



#17 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:37 PM

Double like the above post.

 

I make these "life & death" decisions on Apple II consoles a couple of times every year. If the owner doesn't want to spend restoration money I offer to buy it and go at it in my spare time. If it isn't salvageable I have no qualms about stripping it down to individual parts.

 

The same applies to arcade cabs. If it not economical and smart to repair, strip it and use the parts for other things. I just tore apart an old worn out icemaker - and now have some copper strips for quick "grade B" PCB repairs. That kind of salvaging and scavenging.

 

All in all these things are inanimate objects and the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I know some people in my area that wouldn't even bother rescuing a new-on-palette cabinet. They *might* go as far as asking a neighbor if they want it or perhaps call Salvation Army or Veterans donations - maybe.


Edited by Keatah, Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:14 PM.


#18 VectorGamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:42 PM

I’ve seen a lot of ranting on the net about converting classic cabinets to MAME or 60-in-1, and in principle I agree with the rants, but only to the point where the person doing the conversion is using a cabinet that has any real-world chance of being its original self again.  There are a lot of boxes out there that realistically do not have that chance.

 

This is why I said it depends on what cabinet is converted. Converting an EDOT would be a disgrace. Coverting a Pac-Man not so much.

 

Really the only complaint I have about 60-in-1s is that there are too many of them. When I go to an arcade show they're all over the place like weeds. It can be disappointing when you see a particular cabinet from across the convention center thinking it's an original dedicated and then you get closer you find out it's a 60-in-1.



#19 racerx ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:47 PM

I think all of us have had to put down a cab that was just too far gone.  It's sad, but it's a fact of life.  Likewise, I've picked up a curbside Hydro Thunder gutted of everything but a speaker hanging from a wire...no cp, no back door, no nothing.  I gave it to a friend to mame.  I certainly wasn't going to try and round up all the Hydro parts.  Even if I could, I'd be so upside down on it the missus would leave me.

Neither of these scenarios is really what the OP was asking, though.



#20 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:00 PM

Of course. The OP was thinking along the lines of repurposing and retrofitting a good functioning cab.



#21 SIO2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:28 PM

Well the good working parts that get sold by those doing conversions go to people who are restoring their beloved game. At least I assume that is the case. So I am not sure the destroying a treasure argument is even true.

#22 TheDevil'sCompass OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 4, 2016 5:58 PM

I think this takes a little bit of a common sense approach. Cutting up a waterlogged cabinet is no loss since it couldn't be saved anyway. PCBs beyond repair that are used for scavenging is a pretty common practice everywhere. Can't afford a certain PCB but you can put a 60-in-1 on single play in the cabinet? Go for it, you're not destroying the cabinet that way since the controls don't change.

 

One may not see the artistic merit in a cabinet but if you really think "a cabinet is a cabinet" then I've got to wonder, what have you been looking at? Budweiser or Root Beer Tapper, Burgertime, Discs of Tron environmental, Sinistar cockpit, Star Wars standup or cockpit, Battlezone, Computer Space, Pole Position cockpit, etc. These are all cabinets that contribute to the whole gaming experience either through their unique controls, cabinet art or both. And if you think these are cherry picked examples that nobody would ever touch, you'd be wrong. People will use whatever they can get their hands on to make a buck. What's art to you is just wood to someone else, but that's also like saying an Indy 500 Racecar is just a car. On EBay I've seen a 60-in-1 installed in a Budweiser Tapper! It still had the side-art, but the control panel was destroyed. To me, that person should have been arrested for such an atrocity. I've also seen a few Burgertime and Battlezone machines that were converted. There are generic cabinets that manufacturers used that are much better suited for these conversions.

 

I've got a Namco Classics Vol. 1 PCB in a Centipede cabinet that lost its side-art and control panel when an operator converted it to a Kageki. The cabinet is solid but I have no intention of turning it back into a Centipede. I've also got a Lode Runner in it's original plain woodgrain cabinet. The bottom is chewed up from being moved around in its previous life but I have no intention of putting the PCB in a nicer cabinet because then it wouldn't be original.

 

At the end of the day, if you paid for it then do what you want with it. But don't expect other people to like it. If you're building a multicade to resell then either use a generic cabinet or build one. That way you can strip the sides if necessary, put some nice new multicade side-art on and nobody will complain.



#23 Papa OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 4, 2016 9:25 PM

You freal want a Dynamo HS-5 or equivalent to have much fun with this and the bigger carts.  If you want 60-in-1 Games Family stuff you can obviously have way more breathing room, but your gonna want to clip a JAMMA+ and wire it for multicarts to get the most out of these thousand game setups.

 

It's a no brainer when you only have room for one cab and your not planning on collecting a bunch of 'em.  The real drawback is emulation and it's usual degrading of any and all continuous frame-rate.  The HD driven ones burn out, the SD ones usually have weak computers that provide weak emulation.  Just Another Pandoras Box keeps upgrading and adding more games, but also seems to be gliding away from cabinets and prodding users toward SuperGun-like setups that use monitors and external power.

 

It's good to keep the cab as original and untouched as possible.  I left the Street Fighter Alpha 2 cartridge in there (acid switch bitch that it surely is) with it's CPS2 cradle and just set the multicart on top with my custom wired connector.    I have a Games Family Original 60-in-1, Blue Elf 2 with over a hundred games, another Blue Elf '09 with over four hundred (and seriously dirty games and twisted SF2 hacks that make it TOTALLY WORTH IT!  King of Gladiators anyone?) , and a Just Another Pandoras Box that really needs a different monitor and is waiting for a custom cabinet I'm eying right now.

 

Stay away from too many of the older hard drive ones as they just eat hard drives for breakfast, and don't expect perfection.



#24 NE146 ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 5, 2016 8:15 AM

It's been said already, but it's obvious.. it depends on the age and condition of the cab. i.e. It's a crime to gut and convert a working dedicated Space Invaders Taito cab to a multi-game, but to me it's totally fine doing the same to a working generic JAMMA cab. :)

 

But yeah, if you have a golden age or B&W cab that works, even for the lamest game it'd be a shame to willingly go from this.. 

frogs_1.jpg to this... frogs2.png

 

 If space is an issue, sell it to someone who can take care of it. :D



#25 shoestring OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 5, 2016 8:20 PM

The Multicades are great. They provide the closest experience you'll get to an original PCB due to re-implementation of the hardware in FPGA form.

What I don't like is emulation in those cheap/underpowered boards, the audio quality is atrocious.My biggest issue is with the bootleggers who don't have any rights to distribute the rom images and are using MAME code in their products. I really question their ethics and I would never give them my money.





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