Help, Apple IIe disk drive won't boot; reads continuously with red light on

[Keatah]

The original Disk II drives are super easy to work with. The later ones with the DB-9 are more tedious. I have a couple of head cleaners from back in the day, when floppies were a new thing. And they recommend a cleaning every 20-40 hours of cumulative access.

 

Today the schedule is much more frequent and with an older collection disks, it can mean every 20-40 disks/sessions. And once every disk for ones that are on the brink of failing.

[Keatah]

The thing with a lot of Apple II games is that we learned to work around the fact that they were basically crap in a lot of ways. A lot of Apple II games just don't control very well. In most cases it's actually because of the slow CPU, so there's a lag between input and display. I think the Apple II wasn't particularly well suited to most action games for this reason.

 

Not all games. Some were very fast and the fact that there was hardly any circuitry between the joystick and CPU + game code made for great responses.

 

And the slow games? Everything was all new to us, and the quirky/laggy response was simply part of the game personality. We never really thought about it unless it was horrible, like a space shooter written in applesoft basic or something.

[spacecadet]

And the slow games? Everything was all new to us, and the quirky/laggy response was simply part of the game personality. We never really thought about it unless it was horrible, like a space shooter written in applesoft basic or something.

 

I remember thinking about it at the time. Most games that didn't control well, I just didn't play. I made exceptions if the game was really unique and fun regardless, but I always knew I was enjoying it despite the controls rather than because of them. Something like Flight Simulator II, which was one of my favorite games on the system, but *man* that thing would run at about 0.5 fps in populated areas. You would have to sort of anticipate where the plane was going to go based on your inputs - you'd actually have to be ahead of the computer or you would greatly overcontrol it and crash. A lot of driving games were like that too. I think the only driving game I really could play on the Apple II was the original Test Drive, which was still pretty laggy IIRC, but it was playable, and at the time it was a new concept to be able to drive "real" cars on a home computer. So I learned to deal with the controls.

 

We talked about this in another thread but the early joystick styles didn't help either, with their weak springs, thin shafts and very long throws. In action games, especially, I find myself wanting to really yank the stick from side to side and you can't do that on one of those Kraft-style joysticks. They were dainty little things that required precise inputs (and games often expected them).

 

Anyway, getting OT now I guess. To be back on topic, I'm pretty sure the drives I have are the DB-9 drives (the ones similar to the ones pictured earlier), and I thought it was pretty easy to take apart enough to clean it. I just had to remove the plastic cover, remove the metal shield, and then flip up the top of the spindle or whatever it's called. I think it was about 6 total screws. I was worried I'd knock something out of alignment but after I was done, it seemed like a pretty foolproof process.

[Keatah]

The original Disk II units are even easier to get at, 4 screws and the whole thing slides apart.

 

Off topic? That's quite alright. All the threads (except programming ones) diverge into other areas.

 

Now about the games, sometimes I think why did they even bother making game X for the system. It's just so bad or so slow!

[Retro STrife]

Yeah, taking apart the disk drive took me like a half hour the first time, as I was learning how to do it and cautiously removing everything. But the times after that, it was like 5 minutes to dismantle. Those things are tough and you can get rough with them without worry, which is nice. Actually, for me, the hardest part is getting the outer case clipped back on afterward. Takes me forever each time...

 

And yes, off topic is definitely fine anytime, but especially when the main topic is solved. So... speaking of joysticks, are there certain ones that people recommend that are easy enough to find on ebay and that aren't outrageously expensive? I'd be looking to spend around $20 shipped. The one I have now is the Kraft-style joystick that spacecadet mentioned. Do people like these? I can't tell if it completely sucks or if mine is just busted. The joystick doesn't even recenter properly.

[spacecadet]

So... speaking of joysticks, are there certain ones that people recommend that are easy enough to find on ebay and that aren't outrageously expensive?

I don't have personal experience with this particular model but if I could do it again, I'd probably look for a Suncom Analog Plus, which has a thicker shaft and can also be used with older IBM PC's if you happen to ever want one of those.

 

I have another Suncom model that's more like the older style. The bigger ones that you could get your whole hand around came late in the system's lifespan.

 

The one I have now is the Kraft-style joystick that spacecadet mentioned. Do people like these? I can't tell if it completely sucks or if mine is just busted. The joystick doesn't even recenter properly.

Strangely enough, we did like them back then. I remember talking on BBS's with other people about joysticks and being recommended, and then recommending to others, those very same Kraft joysticks.

 

Nowadays I'm not sure. I think they're just considered kind of standard, and people are used to them. They're by far the most common kind for the system, and everybody copied Kraft so even CH, Suncom and others made joysticks in that same style for a long time.

 

For centering, aren't there a couple centering wheels on your stick? You often need to move these depending on the game, which can also be really annoying, but is another thing we just got used to back in the day.

Edited September 26, 2016 by spacecadet

[Retro STrife]

I don't have personal experience with this particular model but if I could do it again, I'd probably look for a Suncom Analog Plus, which has a thicker shaft and can also be used with older IBM PC's if you happen to ever want one of those.

 

I have another Suncom model that's more like the older style. The bigger ones that you could get your whole hand around came late in the system's lifespan.

 

 

 

Well, I searched around ebay looking for one replacement joystick, and ended up going with two! These are the two:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152222515762

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/311674451218

 

 

The sellers agreed to reasonable best offers on both (altogether paid about $30-$35 shipped). Hopefully these are both solid controllers. I also considered the one below, but it was too pricey. And it's almost like a flight stick, which I figured might not be good for quick-twitch action games. Any thoughts any of these three?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/122127691176

[spacecadet]

The sellers agreed to reasonable best offers on both (altogether paid about $30-$35 shipped). Hopefully these are both solid controllers. I also considered the one below, but it was too pricey. And it's almost like a flight stick, which I figured might not be good for quick-twitch action games. Any thoughts any of these three?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/122127691176

 

I remember that Gravis, though I never owned one. It looks like a pretty good design to me, though. The thing about the Apple II joysticks is that they are analog, so I actually like the flight stick style the best in the absence of anything like an analog gamepad (and I'm not sure such a thing exists for the Apple II).

 

The Kraft KC-3 you ordered is a good compromise; those came later as a response to people wanting a thicker stick to grab onto, but not wanting a wholesale change from the earlier Kraft style. That Machine Gun stick I'm not sure about, but it looks pretty wild. I'm not familiar with it but maybe others around here know it.

[Retro STrife]

 

I remember that Gravis, though I never owned one. It looks like a pretty good design to me, though. The thing about the Apple II joysticks is that they are analog, so I actually like the flight stick style the best in the absence of anything like an analog gamepad (and I'm not sure such a thing exists for the Apple II).

 

The Kraft KC-3 you ordered is a good compromise; those came later as a response to people wanting a thicker stick to grab onto, but not wanting a wholesale change from the earlier Kraft style. That Machine Gun stick I'm not sure about, but it looks pretty wild. I'm not familiar with it but maybe others around here know it.

 

 

Yeah, the one I have now is one of the early Kraft models, and it only has one button. That KC-3 should be a nice upgrade.

 

As for the Machine Gun, I was really intrigued by it, so I caved and bought it. Honestly, it looks like a cheap Chinese knockoff model--and I couldn't find any info about it on Google, so that might confirm its knockoff status--but nonetheless, I liked that it has a design very similar to the Atari 7800 controller. On top of that, it appears to have an Auto-Fire switch on it, which is probably why they call it the machine gun joystick.

[Keatah]

I always liked short-throw sticks, minimized the analog slop reduced movement lag.

 

My favorite is the TG Products stick, essentially it's a 1970's R/C stick and gimbal set in a project box. Super durable.