DOS 3.3 disk on Apple IIC issues?

[Coleco]

Bought an Apple IIc in good shape. Bought an Apple Diskware DOS 3.3 System Master off ebay. Upon boot it says "check disk" and then nothing. Inserting into an external drive and doing a PR#7 results in a quick read of the DOS disc and then the internal disc making the dying whale (no disk) sound. This is the only disk I have for the machine. Is there likely something wrong with the drive, the disk or am I missing something (like is DOS 3.3 not compatible?)

 

[The Usotsuki]

That's a limitation of DOS 3.3.

[Keatah]

What's a limitation of DOS 3.3 ?

[david__schmidt]

The fact that the disk won't boot in the internal

 

This is the only disk I have for the machine. Is there likely something wrong with the drive, the disk or am I missing something (like is DOS 3.3 not compatible?)

 

That's unfortunate. You need to try with a different disk, maybe even creating your own boot disk with ADTPro. It's either a problem with your internal drive or the media you bought... given the computer is a complete unknown, maybe I put a little more likelihood on the drive being the culprit.

[Osgeld]

Dos 3.3 is compatible with a //c, it could be either considering we have no history with either

 

If you have the means cobble up a serial cable and use adt pro to make new disks

 

Otherwise one of us might be able to mail you one to try that we know is good

 

Where abouts are you located

[The Usotsuki]

What's a limitation of DOS 3.3 ?

That you can't boot DOS 3.3 from the external drive on the //c.

[Keatah]

Wasn't there a 5 byte patch or similar thing that allowed just that? You type it in and away it goes. I know it works on the II+, but never tried it on a //c.

 

I clearly recall doing it back in the day to the utter and total amazement of everyone in CompuShop and Computerland.

[ianoid]

A cleaning disk is key. Most drives need to be cleaned. Try to find a cleaning kit new old stock. Some may gasp, but you can usually use a cleaning disk with whatever solution it comes with for many uses. I recommend Floppiclene sets. Even better is to clean the head with a q-tip and anhydrous alcohol, but you'd need to open up the IIc a bit to get to it ideally.

 

And if you need some bootable disks, I can send you some copies or make some copies of stuff for you to boot for a few bucks more than shipping.

 

ADP Pro is ideal to try out all the software available, and would be worth the trouble to set up, although I use a CFFA3000. You could also use it to load some diagnostic software that could test the drive and even run a cleaning routine if you have a cleaning disk.

 

Although we're having trouble with power supplies and capacitors more and more with all old hardware, Apple II's are relatively easy to setup and maintain. Disk drive head cleaning is the most common thing to need regular maintenance especially if you go booting lots of random disks from uncertain sources (like me).

Edited September 25, 2016 by ianoid

[Keatah]

Out on the field, many moons ago, I made a cleaning disk out cardstock paper. Disassembled a floppy, used it as a template, and cut the card. It worked! But I wouldn't have used it more than 4 or 5 times.

 

I still have it my technicians report folder.

[TheDevil'sCompass]

1. DOS 3.3 is compatible with the Apple //c and will boot from the INTERNAL drive just fine.
​2. Can't comment on the EXTERNAL drive as I no longer have one with my system.

The best advice for the OP is from Ianoid. I've had problems with my Apple //c not reading disks from time to time and a good cleaning has taken care of it for me. This doesn't mean that there couldn't be something wrong with the internal drive, but your first step should be trying to clean it.

A cleaning disk is key. Most drives need to be cleaned. Try to find a cleaning kit new old stock. Some may gasp, but you can usually use a cleaning disk with whatever solution it comes with for many uses. I recommend Floppiclene sets. Even better is to clean the head with a q-tip and anhydrous alcohol, but you'd need to open up the IIc a bit to get to it ideally.

[Keatah]

You can get them on ebay for under $20. Rip-off? Yes. Necessary? Absolutely! As our disks age, they will shed oxide, binder, and lube. Faster and faster.

 

I'm seeing this problem more and more.

[Coleco]

Thank you, all. I'm in Grand Rapids, Michigan (for those who asked). I'm expecting a few more disks this week from a friend who found a few in his basement. I'll keep everyone informed about how things work out.

 

I bought this because my son is a big Apple fan (he's going as Steve Jobs for Halloween) and he wanted to know what it's like to use an Apple II (I had a Franklin Ace 1200 as a kid). I've taught him a few Basic tricks from the CNRTL-Reset prompt (some counting and "print" functions) and that seemed to get him excited to do more. I bought some IBM formatted DSDD 5.25 floppies, but can't reformat them without some software. Figured a DOS disc would be a good place to start, but not so much.

 

Any other beginners advice appreciated.

[Osgeld]

found a few in his basement?

 

were doing whats called a AB comparison

 

A) your current disks that fail

B) a known to be good disk verified in one or more machines

 

some random disks found in a box in a dank basement does not qualify as B, be logical about it...

 

if we have a known to be good disk and you still experience failures its something with the drive (cleaning, timing etc)

if we if we have a known to be good disk and it works fine in your drive, its your disks

if we have a unknown disk from a dank basement we are back at the start, who knows whats wrong the moldy disk or the drive

 

it cost a dollar to send a known to be working 5.25 inch disk in the mail, which most of us would offer for just to solve the mystery

Edited September 26, 2016 by Osgeld

[Coleco]

Well, those "basement" disks were instructive. The external drive managed to read and load Bank Street Writer, which appears to be functioning normally. The internal drive showed signs of life, but then errored out to an asterisk on some disks, while others just say "Check Disc Drive" or "Unable to Load ProDos"

 

I bought a cleaning kit on ebay and will try that process. In the meantime, if anyone has known good IIc disk utility disks they'd like to sell (I'd rather buy here than off eBay), please message me. Thanks. Once I get a chance I'll spend a bit more time getting ADTPro configured and buy the necessary cables.

[Coleco]

The drive cleaning kit seemed to help. The internal drive now seems to work most of the time. I've just purchased the ADPpro setup from RetroFloppy and will give that a go. Thanks again.