Help for an RMT noob

[rdefabri]

I've recently downloaded RMT, but can't find any documentation on how to use it. I can figure some of it out, but is there any guidelines or am I missing something (I know the readme docs, but I'm looking for something more meaty).

[makary]

As far as I know there isn't anything more meaty (i.e. a sort of tutorial). If you have a specific question I may try to help. There are also musicians here knowing ins and outs of using RMT. I believe they can share their knowlegde as well.

[rdefabri]

As far as I know there isn't anything more meaty (i.e. a sort of tutorial). If you have a specific question I may try to help. There are also musicians here knowing ins and outs of using RMT. I believe they can share their knowlegde as well.

Thanks - I appreciate it! I've figured some of it out, but I'm struggling with the interface. Now the main thing I'm running into is how to change the length of a section and the time / speed. Looks like I have 64 lines - 00 - 3F (16 measures in 4-beat measure scale) but once I get to the last line, I can't move to the next section. It just repeats. I know other songs I load are longer, and even when I modify them, my piece returns to line 00 after reaching line 3F.

 

I am aware of the area on the upper right of the screen, that numbers each "section" (00 with 64 lines, then 01 with 64 lines, etc). I can't make the program progress to section 01, it just stays at 00 and repeats.

 

Obviously, I'm doing something wrong - I don't understand all the nuances. I do get how to apply different instruments, program them, volumes, etc., so i've come a long way (relatively speaking)!!!!

 

Any help is appreciated...sorry if this is a rambling post, it's early for me

[makary]

When you're in the pattern / section editor: by pressing "ctrl + end" in a given line you can modify the lenght of the pattern. Mark "END" will appear at that line. Press again the key combination if you wish to remove the mark and go back to the default lenght.

 

You can set the speed of a pattern by pointing and left-clicking an invisible column next to the volume column in the pattern editor, for example:

 

01 --- -- - HERE --- -- - --- -- - --- -- -

 

Now about the progress of a song. Let's say in the song editor you see something like (new project, mono / 4 channels):

 

00: 00 01 02 03

01: Go to line 00

02: -- -- -- --

 

It means that your song has just one line which consists of patterns 00 to 04. They are played simultaneously. Moreover this song line repeats -> player keeps going back to the song line 00 according to the command in the song line 01. Now point and left-click "Go to line 00" and press Ctrl + I. This way an empty song line is added:

 

00: 00 01 02 03

01: -- -- -- --

02: go to line 00

 

In the song line 01 you can put some new empty patterns (say 04 05 06 07) or repeat some of the patterns from the song line 00. Just arrange the song the way you like. You'll notice that now you can get to the next section in the pattern editor (after reaching 3F). Next section to x (say 00) = the one below x in the song editor (04 in the example).

 

The red arrow next to the song lines indicates where you are in the song but also what you see / can edit the pattern editor at the moment.

 

I hope this helps a bit.

[rdefabri]

When you're in the pattern / section editor: by pressing "ctrl + end" in a given line you can modify the lenght of the pattern. Mark "END" will appear at that line. Press again the key combination if you wish to remove the mark and go back to the default lenght.

 

You can set the speed of a pattern by pointing and left-clicking an invisible column next to the volume column in the pattern editor, for example:

 

01 --- -- - HERE --- -- - --- -- - --- -- -

 

Now about the progress of a song. Let's say in the song editor you see something like (new project, mono / 4 channels):

 

00: 00 01 02 03

01: Go to line 00

02: -- -- -- --

 

It means that your song has just one line which consists of patterns 00 to 04. They are played simultaneously. Moreover this song line repeats -> player keeps going back to the song line 00 according to the command in the song line 01. Now point and left-click "Go to line 00" and press Ctrl + I. This way an empty song line is added:

 

00: 00 01 02 03

01: -- -- -- --

02: go to line 00

 

In the song line 01 you can put some new empty patterns (say 04 05 06 07) or repeat some of the patterns from the song line 00. Just arrange the song the way you like. You'll notice that now you can get to the next section in the pattern editor (after reaching 3F). Next section to x (say 00) = the one below x in the song editor (04 in the example).

 

The red arrow next to the song lines indicates where you are in the song but also what you see / can edit the pattern editor at the moment.

 

I hope this helps a bit.

Yep, that helps - I was able to get part of that worked out, but you've made it very clear. Now I have to brush of the dust of my (limited) musical composition capabilities. My time is all off, but at least I can edit it accordingly. i finally have the start of a song, but it's not anywhere close to being finished.

 

Thanks a bunch!!!

[rdefabri]

Really dumb question - each line in the song line, I would assume, represents a 1/16 note (using 4/4 time)?

 

Would make sense as there are 64 lines (00 - 3F).

[makary]

I think it's a quite reasonable question, really

 

When I need a simple four to the floor kind of rhythm, one line works as 1/16. Sometimes however I like to use 1/32 or even 1/64 notes. For instance when I wish to use some ghost notes or really quick melodic movements or add some swing to the rhythm or use some kind of gate effects (notes turning quickly on and off) and so on. In these cases I need a bit higher pattern resolution and one line works as 1/32 or 1/64. The speed of the tune is set to higher values as well of course.

[rdefabri]

Ok - I finished my first RMT song, a cover of an obscure song by one of my favorite bands, DEVO.

 

Once I got the hang of it, it was quite easy. I made a few mistakes at first, but once I figured out the notes and the interface, it was pretty easy. See attached .xex file I created (I don't have Camstudio to record the output).

 

Assuming the emulation is accurate, the POKEY is out of tune at the higher notes - well known, but interesting. As a comparison, you can see the original in the video. While my version isn't 100% note for note accurate, it is 99% right (I do play various instruments and deconstructed this song quite some time ago).

 

 

I used fairly standard sounds, this would sound much better with a fat bass line and a lower C64 string sound with some echo. The mix needs to be improved too, bass line is too loud. I've tinkered with the volume settings, but didn't have a lot of time to finish.

 

It's not perfect, but considering it took me about 1 hour to do once I figured it all out, not bad! It sure was fun! Thanks for your help!

 

 

Mechamaniav3.xex

Edited September 29, 2016 by rdefabri

[Irgendwer]

The mix needs to be improved too, bass line is too loud. I've tinkered with the volume settings, but didn't have a lot of time to finish.

 

 

Please note that the total cumulative volume should not exceed 40 (others advise even 32) to have a distortion free and non-saturated pokey playback.

[rdefabri]

 

 

Please note that the total cumulative volume should not exceed 40 (others advise even 32) to have a distortion free and non-saturated pokey playback.

I'm old so that's a forgotten rule for me! Is there a way to globally change the volume per track?

[emkay]

I'm old so that's a forgotten rule for me! Is there a way to globally change the volume per track?

Select the track content and reduce the volume .

[miker]

Nice one for a firstie!

 

To make volume more real, insert this file into main directory of RMT: http://asap.sourceforge.net/apokeysnd.dll

[rdefabri]

Nice one for a firstie!

 

To make volume more real, insert this file into main directory of RMT: http://asap.sourceforge.net/apokeysnd.dll

I have that .dll already (unless this is an updated one).

 

Changed the volume levels - not sure it made a diff, maybe slightly?

mechamaniav3.xex

[miker]

Yeah. Better now.

 

Try not to do too loud instruments (maybe louder beginning and then go more silent). Observe it in some example songs.

[rdefabri]

Yeah. Better now.

 

Try not to do too loud instruments (maybe louder beginning and then go more silent). Observe it in some example songs.

Now I understand - the program defaulted to volume F, didn't think to modify for tuning. I did play with volume a little, especially on the trill sound, but not anything major.

 

I'd like to use it to create some 2-channel echo, but still learning the program.

[rdefabri]

I created another song (not my composition, it's a song by Devo called "Girl U Want"), had some fun using the portamento for the guitar lead. Still pining for a fat, Moog bass like Triace got on his Space Panda Disco - any idea how to create that??

 

 

girl u want.xex

[makary]

I created another song (not my composition, it's a song by Devo called "Girl U Want"), had some fun using the portamento for the guitar lead. Still pining for a fat, Moog bass like Triace got on his Space Panda Disco - any idea how to create that??

 

 

 

Really nice tunes

 

How about using 15kHz mode? It allows you to get some nice sounding bass instruments when using distortion A + some filtering. I believe Triace used this sort of technique in his tune. BTW: what a brilliant Pokey tune!

 

A bit different bass sounds, but I think still "fat" I got in this one:

https://soundcloud.com/user-799776082/someday-somewhere-neverland

 

A similar method: 15kHz + dist A + filter + wobbling/looped envelope.

 

I hope this helps a bit. Looking forward for more music from you

[rdefabri]

 

Really nice tunes

 

How about using 15kHz mode? It allows you to get some nice sounding bass instruments when using distortion A + some filtering. I believe Triace used this sort of technique in his tune. BTW: what a brilliant Pokey tune!

 

A bit different bass sounds, but I think still "fat" I got in this one:

https://soundcloud.com/user-799776082/someday-somewhere-neverland

 

A similar method: 15kHz + dist A + filter + wobbling/looped envelope.

 

I hope this helps a bit. Looking forward for more music from you

 

Thanks! I'm trying to experiment a little more. I did trade some messages with Triace, I'm getting it now

 

I'm not much of a composer / writer, but I can do cover tunes...I'm working on something cool that I think some folks here would get a kick out of. Not done yet, but it uses the nice fat bass sound like what you or Triace used.

[Heaven/TQA]

G

 

 

Really nice tunes

 

How about using 15kHz mode? It allows you to get some nice sounding bass instruments when using distortion A + some filtering. I believe Triace used this sort of technique in his tune. BTW: what a brilliant Pokey tune!

 

A bit different bass sounds, but I think still "fat" I got in this one:

https://soundcloud.com/user-799776082/someday-somewhere-neverland

 

A similar method: 15kHz + dist A + filter + wobbling/looped envelope.

 

I hope this helps a bit. Looking forward for more music from you

Great song!

[rdefabri]

 

Really nice tunes

 

How about using 15kHz mode? It allows you to get some nice sounding bass instruments when using distortion A + some filtering. I believe Triace used this sort of technique in his tune. BTW: what a brilliant Pokey tune!

 

A bit different bass sounds, but I think still "fat" I got in this one:

https://soundcloud.com/user-799776082/someday-somewhere-neverland

 

A similar method: 15kHz + dist A + filter + wobbling/looped envelope.

 

I hope this helps a bit. Looking forward for more music from you

 

Awesome song - really well done!!

[rdefabri]

If ever there were a song from a game that was so much better on the Commodore 64 / SID than the Atari / POKEY, it would be this one. Comparing the games is like comparing a Ferrari to a Hyundai - the Atari version looks barely put together, terrible colors and PMG, it was as if they didn't even try. But worse is the music - there's NO attempt to wring any kind of sound from POKEY, and frankly it's a huge disappointment.

 

So I "remade" the song. It's not perfect, and for some sounds (like the high "trill" sounds near the end) POKEY struggles to stay in tune, but I think it's an improvement. Better yet, the 1/8 note "hi-hat" noises are on a single track, so if the "game" needed an explosion or some other effect, it could be turned off without issue (as in the C64 version). The Atari version loses some of the music - it's just composed poorly (no offense to the programmer, but I think it wasn't a stellar effort).

 

So without further adieu - I present the attached. It might be improved upon, but for a first pass through, I'm pretty happy with it. The name of the file gives it away, but compare it to the Atari and C64 versions and let me know what you think. Nothing earth shattering, I did some mild sound experimenting, but much of it is standard fare.

pantherpokey.xex

[emkay]

If ever there were a song from a game that was so much better on the Commodore 64 / SID than the Atari / POKEY, it would be this one. Comparing the games is like comparing a Ferrari to a Hyundai - the Atari version looks barely put together, terrible colors and PMG, it was as if they didn't even try.

Actually, I'd prefer the A8 version, because of the huge playfield size and playability.

 

But worse is the music - there's NO attempt to wring any kind of sound from POKEY, and frankly it's a huge disappointment.

The tune isn't earth shaking, but it is "round". What's missing, is the fat short bass-synth sound.

 

Your attempt is very nice, as deep notes can sound very impressive, played by POKEY.

POKEY has not only a problem with the 8 bit resolution, there is also a misconception in the volume . As higher sounds get more power (faster volume switch by the sound generators results in more power for the overall volume) than lower sounds. POKEY Yelling is the word. Some fiddling with the timing of the filters and building reverbs with the volume, helps a lot, to have the "high sound reverb" in "music" , fitting to the low sounds.

Edited October 22, 2016 by emkay

[+Philsan]

I created another song (not my composition, it's a song by Devo called "Girl U Want"), had some fun using the portamento for the guitar lead. Still pining for a fat, Moog bass like Triace got on his Space Panda Disco - any idea how to create that??

 

 

Awesome tune!

[Mclaneinc]

Really nice Panther track, you are deffo getting the hang of it..

 

Thanks

 

Paul.

[rdefabri]

Actually, I'd prefer the A8 version, because of the huge playfield size and playability.

 

 

The tune isn't earth shaking, but it is "round". What's missing, is the fat short bass-synth sound.

 

Your attempt is very nice, as deep notes can sound very impressive, played by POKEY.

POKEY has not only a problem with the 8 bit resolution, there is also a misconception in the volume . As higher sounds get more power (faster volume switch by the sound generators results in more power for the overall volume) than lower sounds. POKEY Yelling is the word. Some fiddling with the timing of the filters and building reverbs with the volume, helps a lot, to have the "high sound reverb" in "music" , fitting to the low sounds.

 

As you point out, higher volume when played on POKEY can be an issue. Since I'm composing these in RMT (and not playing back on a real A8), I use the volume settings like a mixer to adjust which tracks need to be louder / softer.

 

Intent would be to dial them back accordingly to not impact an actual POKEY where it is "yelling". Any way you can get a screen capture of what it sounds like on a real machine?