I need help understanding MyIDE II, Mybios, SDX, etc.

[Kyle22]

. . . Even today Windows still has MS-DOS hiding in it's core.. . .

 

Windows Millennium Edition (WinMe) was the last Win on DOS version. All modern Windows starting with 2000 are NT. The CMD Prompt isn't MS-DOS. It's a virtual DOS machine, and it is compatible with MS-DOS.

 

NT 5.x: Windows 2000, XP, 2003, First version WHS, and many embedded variants.

NT 6.x: Vista,7,8,8.1,10, and some embedded variants.

 

I proudly use NT 5.1.2600 SP3

 

Edit: This was not meant to de-rail the topic. There are other places to discuss Windows.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Kyle22

[Bryan]

It's a virtual DOS machine, and it is compatible with MS-DOS.

It's not even that anymore. You can't run DOS apps, only Windows console apps.

[Gunstar]

We've already derailed the topic talking about GOS environments in the first place, This was a thread about MyIDE/SDX/etc. So whatever...

 

But ok, so MS-DOS is no more. It doesn't make my point any less valid, Until the turn of the century, combination GOS/DOS was the norm on most computers.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Gunstar

[Kyle22]

It's not even that anymore. You can't run DOS apps, only Windows console apps.

OK, this is the last one

 

I have installed this old DOS program on many Windows computers. It's a Pizza Shop POS system. The last one I installed just last month. Works great.

[Gunstar]

I see a world of advantages when stacking the MyIDE-II to the super-SDX cart:

 

1) Instant SDX boot (compared to loading using FAT32 loader, selecting it and loading into the SRAM). There is a way to embed it on the WB but I could only make it using the 4.4.7 not the 4.4.8 and it is not a simple task)

2) RTC

3) Access to FAT16 using FATFS.SYS. You can mount and have read access to it and transfer files between your PC and Atari easily

4) 256KB image instead of 128KB for the MyIDE-II, you can add more stuff on it.

5) SDX partitions are faster than the ramdisk. You want to use SDX on a fast file system. There is no bank switching on the Atari, you can compile a program from it faster than on ramdisk.

Now this is a perfect example of how I'm learning more about how the MyIDE 2 cart works in this round about way from you and the differences between running SDX from sram or from the SDX cart. Now it may be my mistake, due to information overload while I was researching all my High-speed, high capacity drive options, but I was thinking of the sram as flash memory, and whatever was in there was flashed there permanently until it was re-flashed. But from your description, it appears that it's really just ram used as a ramdisk and everything that uses it is loaded onto it when booting, from the FAT32 partition or from on-board eprom in the case of MyBIOS, etc.? Am I now understanding it correctly? If so, this totally changes my understanding of how the MyIDE 2 works and this was not made clear to me from any instructions, tutorial or posts. But maybe that's just my misunderstanding and not paying attention to the keyword of "sram" amongst all the talk of flashing and using Maxflash studio, etc, Maybe I'm just confusing myself more...does it work both ways? I did already understand that the sram could be used for a ramdisk already, but I just wasn't thinking about a ramdisk in flash memory vs. ram. I was thinking of the sram as strictly like a 4Mb flash cartridge on-board. I remember wishing it was 8Mb flash memory so I could use it for AtariBlast! and Space Harrier.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Gunstar

[Kyle22]

SRAM means Static RAM. It retains its contents as long as it has power.

[Gunstar]

Yes, then I am now understanding it correctly and I was misunderstanding before. Thanks Kyle22. But your description of static ram sounds like it works the same as regular ram to me, so I'm not sure why the need to add on the "s" or "static" if it works as long as it has power, just like the internal ram chips.That just adds to the confusion for me, the memory layman, even if there is a technical hardware difference, if it works like regular ram. I now wonder why it couldn't be used as an external ram upgrade for the Atari's memory rather than being used as only external ramdisk or temporary rom area. Yeah, yeah, it's totally different memory map than real external memory upgrades...I'm not totally ignorant, but maybe it could have been designed that way. But programs maybe could be written and designed to use it as extended ram memory?

 

But just the realization of exactly how that sram works, and knowing it's not flash ram, really helps for some pieces to fall into place in my understanding of MyIDE 2, and Maxflash studio and workbooks, etc. I was quite confused in understanding this, since the CF card is flash memory, and thinking there was 512K of on-board flash too, but still loading roms from FAT32, and not needing to put them into sram (what I was thinking of like flash ram). I thought the Maxflash studio workbooks was just building all the files into a directory that you would then permanently flash to the sram area. Now, I compare the workbook to being more like the config.sys file or a batch file in SpartaDOS. This makes a big difference in my understanding if I am still holding true in my new-found understanding. Or is the workbook files being flashed onto an eprom and then they are loaded into sram from there when booting?

Edited October 4, 2016 by Gunstar

[Gunstar]

Well I tested it here now too...

 

I had no MyIDE2.sys on my SuperCart and I did not want to re-flash the thing, so I stored myide2.sys on a physical floppy disk in my 1050 and I also created a config.sys on D1: in my 1050... and I attached the MyIDE 2 cart to the Super Cart.

 

As expected the 1050 loads the config.sys and then loads the myide2.sys and then the APT partitions are detected and I have access to all my apt partitions on my MyIDE 2 cart.

 

Indeed: you can not use the Flash content while using SDX, but that makes sense.

You also could combine MyBIOS partitions and SDX this way.

 

Thanks for the suggestion by the way. I did not think of this earlier, but it is a pretty good idea to hook up the MyIDE 2 to the SDX cart. When I switch off the SDX cart using the red switch I can use the MyIDE 2 like it is connected without SDX; cool enough the MyIDE 2 cart re-inits when I switch off the SDX supercart followed by reset.

 

@Larry: so why yours does not want to do this is puzzling me. Are you 100% sure you have the right myide driver for SDX?

I actually like the old-school way of boot-strapping the MyIDE 2 for SDX and APT partitions with a 1050 floppy. It reminds me of my first interface and hard drive I had for my old 1040ST that required a bootdisk from the floppy. And since I have a Happy 1050 and Warp+ OS it'll be a pretty fast boot-strapping. I may not ever bother re=flashing the SSDX cart!

[suspicious_milk]

"so I'm not sure why the need to add on the "s" or "static" if it works as long as it has power, just like the internal ram chips.That just adds to the confusion for me, the memory layman, even if there is a technical hardware difference, if it works like regular ram. I now wonder why it couldn't be used as an external ram upgrade for the Atari's memory rather than being used as only external ramdisk or temporary rom area"

 

SRAM is usually more expensive vs DRAM (regular) per KB. SRAM is easier to work into existing designs, bc it is asynchronous and doesn't require a refresh. It retains data longer than DRAM ... a quick power off may leave It's data. I'll leave to your imagination when this could be good, bad, or, indifferent.

[flashjazzcat]

What was that I said before about spectacular complications?

 

I'll reply to the GOS posts in the GUI thread, since I'm keen to get out of here.

[Bryan]

OK, this is the last one

 

I have installed this old DOS program on many Windows computers. It's a Pizza Shop POS system. The last one I installed just last month. Works great.

Try it in something past XP.

[Kyle22]

Try it in something past XP.

 

That's one of the many reasons I only use XP.

[Gunstar]

SpartaDOS 3.x lives in the Shadow RAM under the OS anyway, so presumably ATOS doesn't intrude on that area of memory. With SDX, USE BANKED in CONFIG.SYS will give you the lowest possible MEMLO, however.

 

Somewhat OT, but I noticed on another forum some talk of the WIP GOS not supporting wallpaper. It's understandable that observers of the incredibly long GUI thread may have missed the demo of wallpapers, but in any case wallpaper is certainly supported (as will other trivial augmentations such as screen savers, etc) and I was a little puzzled by the presumption that it would not be. Since ATOS is a graphical shell on top of DOS, it may yet turn out to be your best bet if the intention is to launch legacy software via some kind of "desktop" menu. The WIP GOS is a pre-emptively multi-tasking, micro-kernel based graphical OS primarily intended to run GUI applications. The scale of the undertaking (punctuated by frequent hiatuses while I work on other projects, such as the APT partition editor and drivers mentioned in this very topic) ensures a prolonged development cycle which delights devoted armchair critics.

 

I'm not sure what advantages there are to using ATOS to launch the existing version of The Last Word instead of simply typing X LW.EXE at the DOS prompt, but I'm always delighted to hear of the program being put to practical use.

One more question for a while...I change the CONFIG.SYS file with a text editor just like a batch file? I'm not fully familiar with SDX yet, though I used to use batch files with SD 3.2/3. I think I remember changing batch files right from the command line in the disk vesions of SD, but it's been years. So, is there a command or way to edit batch and system files from the SDX command line or something and not have to load up a text editor? I've been browsing the latest SDX manual, but haven't found the area on batch files and making/changing config.sys files yet. Even the index is a lot to read. I know I can eventually read and learn it all, but I'm trying to just learn what I need to get MyIDE/APT/SDX setup to start with then learn as I use it.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Gunstar

[flashjazzcat]

One more question for a while...I change the CONFIG.SYS file with a text editor just like a batch file? I'm not fully familiar with SDX yet, though I used to use batch files with SD 3.2/3. I think I remember changing batch files right from the command line in the disk vesions of SD, but it's been years. So, is there a command or way to edit batch and system files from the SDX command line or something and not have to load up a text editor? I've been browsing the latest SDX manual, but haven't found the area on batch files and making/changing config.sys files yet. Even the index is a lot to read. I know I can eventually read and learn it all, but I'm trying to just learn what I need to get MyIDE/APT/SDX setup to start with then learn as I use it.

 

It's probably best to use the default CONFIG.SYS on the CAR: device as a template. To make a copy on drive 1, type:

 

TYPE CAR:CONFIG.SYS >>A:CONFIG.SYS

 

Then, to edit it the resulting file, type:

 

ED A:CONFIG.SYS

 

"ED" being the system text editor. You can always type:

 

COPY CON: CONFIG.SYS

 

to create a new CONFIG.SYS, then type the content, pressing return after each line, and hit Ctrl+3 to close the file, but I think using a text editor is a lot more civilised.

 

When searching for a specific topic in the SDX manual (or in any dense textual matter), you may get more mileage out of the Table of Contents than the Index. The Chapter of chief interest regarding batch files is entitled "Command Processor - Advanced Features" or words to that effect.

Edited October 6, 2016 by flashjazzcat

[drac030]

And regarding CONFIG.SYS - "Configuring your system".

[Gunstar]

Thank you. Yes, after posting I realized that there was no config.sys file with the MyIDE2.sys file & SDX zips I downloaded and that I'd have to write my own. But I do appreciate the idea of using the one on my SDX cartridge as a template. Thanks!

[flashjazzcat]

There is a CONFIG.SYS on the CAR: device which loads the MYIDE2.SYS driver. It's a waste of time putting one on the HDD in these circumstances, since the HDD is not accessible until the driver is loaded. Edit CONFIG.SYS using the SDX imaging tool. Only bootable PBI HDD host adapters and custom operating systems are able to read CONFIG.SYS from the hard disk.

[Gunstar]

There is a CONFIG.SYS on the CAR: device which loads the MYIDE2.SYS driver. It's a waste of time putting one on the HDD in these circumstances, since the HDD is not accessible until the driver is loaded. Edit CONFIG.SYS using the SDX imaging tool. Only bootable PBI HDD host adapters and custom operating systems are able to read CONFIG.SYS from the hard disk.

I doubt I'm going to worry about putting an updated config.sys or myide2.sys on the MyIDE 2 or update my SDX super cart anytime soon. Booting them both from my Happy 1050 will get things up and running fast enough for me, and it's easier to update or change in the future.

 

I have noticed a side effect of having the MyIDE 2 "stacked" on the SSDX cart (even if the SDX cart is off); While rom images still work fine from the FAT32 loader, they seem to be about it. Every .xex/exe/com file I've tried won't work unless the SSDX cart is removed. But I intend to get those types of files on to my APT partitions soon anyway, and I'll have ATR images going into the MyBIOS/MyDOS image area, so rom files will be the only items in my FAT32 partition eventually anyway. And I have encountered no issues using MyDOS/MyBIOS with the stacked cartridges yet, with the SDX cartridge off of course.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Gunstar

[Marius]

I doubt I'm going to worry about putting an updated config.sys or myide2.sys on the MyIDE 2 or update my SDX super cart anytime soon. Booting them both from my Happy 1050 will get things up and running fast enough for me, and it's easier to update or change in the future.

 

I have noticed a side effect of having the MyIDE 2 "stacked" on the SSDX cart (even if the SDX cart is off); While rom images still work fine from the FAT32 loader, they seem to be about it. Every .xex/exe/com file I've tried won't work unless the SSDX cart is removed. But I intend to get those types of files on to my APT partitions soon anyway, and I'll have ATR images going into the MyBIOS/MyDOS image area, so rom files will be the only items in my FAT32 partition eventually anyway. And I have encountered no issues using MyDOS/MyBIOS with the stacked cartridges yet, with the SDX cartridge off of course.

 

This is not a side effect, but it is the nature of how things work. I'm surprised that ROM/R16 works. At the moment you fire up the atari, the SDX is enabled. So I'm not surprised that many things you load do not want to run.

 

I think the FAT32 loader can also be stored as a file on the APT partition. When you start this with X FAT32LOADER (depending on what filename you have chosen for the FAT32 loader)... I'm pretty sure it will work then.

[Gunstar]

 

This is not a side effect, but it is the nature of how things work. I'm surprised that ROM/R16 works. At the moment you fire up the atari, the SDX is enabled. So I'm not surprised that many things you load do not want to run.

 

I think the FAT32 loader can also be stored as a file on the APT partition. When you start this with X FAT32LOADER (depending on what filename you have chosen for the FAT32 loader)... I'm pretty sure it will work then.

I am talking about when the SSDX cartridge is OFF. And I find it natural for the rom/r16 files to work since the SSDX cartridge was designed to be shut off and cartridges work like normal through it.

As to the "side effect" I was using the term loosley, But I still say "side effect" because as I said, the SSDX cart is NOT ENABLED when I was attempting to use the FAT32 for .xex, ect. I can leave the SSDX cartaridge plugged in and disabled/off and everything else works as if it's not there.

 

It's not like I'm trying to find a way to leave the SSDX cartridge plugged in permanently; but the less I have to remove it the better.I don't care if I have to remove SSDX to use the FAT32 on the MYIDE2. It will be a non-issue soon because rom and .r16 will work with the SSDX cart plugged in and turned off and that's all I will be using the FAT32 loader for once I get APT partitions set up.

 

But thanks, I will look into using the FAT32 partition through SDX, but I was planning on setting up a FAT16 partition with SDX, but if FAT32 can be stored as a file, cool. But my plan is to take the advice given above and have a seperate CF card for SDX/APT and a seperate one for FAT32/MyBIOS/MyDOS. I've just been testing different scenarios with the SSDX cartridge plugged in and OFF while using MyIDE 2 without it.To see if I can always leave the SSDX cart plugged in. So far, it seems I can except with FAT32 exe/xex/com files.

 

I'll be removing at least the MyIDE 2 cartridge often anyway, because I still use cassettes and auto load floppy disks all the time too and the cartridge has to be removed for that media. The only thin I'm actually hoping to use less is my PC with SIO2PC, MyIDE 2 is to free my Atari from being tied to the PC except just to update stuff and transfer new files to MyIDE 2.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Gunstar

[Marius]

Okay... I did misunderstand you! I thought you did not have the on/off switch, but that was Larry.

 

I tried it myself, and you are right. It is very weird; it means that the SDX cart is still interfering with something, while it is off.

 

 

I still have the SIDE2 fat32 loader too on my MyIDE2 cart. This one is no longer supported, since it was only officially released for MyIDE 1.

That one does work.

 

This means that it is fixable. The XEX files CAN run while the SDX cart is connected, but obviously there is something going on with the FAT32 loader.

A while back I wrote patching routines for XEX files that do not want to run from the FAT32 loader (Which were still quite some titles). Thanks to those Patch routines virtually any XEX file could run from the MyIDE 2 FAT32 loader, but you had to patch all those non working titles manually with a HEX editor (adding a block above the data, and adding a block at the end of the data).

 

If Tucker (author of the FAT32 loader) is not able to find time to fix the FAT32 loader, I could investigate this and perhaps I can update my patcher so the games could also run with the SDX cart connected. Then I could also write an auto-patcher, so you could patch all the XEX files in one go.

But... patched XEX games only run on MyIDE 2 cart with the FAT32 loader from Tucker. So you also want to keep your original files.

 

I do not make any promises yet, since I'm quite busy. Please try the FAT32 loader running from SDX first... perhaps that works.

[Gunstar]

Yeah, I'll definitely look into FAT32 in a file and also FAT16 through SDX, but I plan on eventually having all my executable type files in Sparta and MyDOS partitions using legacy access through the DOS's and only those few executables that don't work with either DOS or quick access to new programs with FAT32. The main purpose other than that for FAT32, for me, is storage of rom/r16 files which if I'm understanding correctly, are transferred into the sram and run like a cartridge from there.

 

Even with MyBIOS/MyDOS's ATR image area I only intend to use for games/programs that use multiple disks/sides and still boot from my real 1050's as D1/D2 and programs like AR: Dungeon that can use 4 drives will use D3/D4 on MyBIOS ATR image area, if I am understanding how it can work. This is something I do with APE/SIO2PC now, but as I said, I want to move away from reliance on a PC as a server. Part of the reason there is also because I have an older home-brew SIO2PC com device, and even though I have done Lotharek's HSIO mod on my 1200XL, I can't seem to get anything to work faster than 57K baud rate through SIO2PC, the same speed of my Happy 1050. I think it's an issue with my "legacy" SIO2PC/COM. MyIDE 2 changes all that.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Gunstar

[+mytek]

I'm bumping this topic because it seems to be the best place to bring up a question I am puzzling over. Can the non-flashed based DIY MyIDE ][ be used as a basic CF drive in a U1MB equipped system similar to the SIDE cart?

 

So in other words can the U1MB loader access it?

 

Does the MyBios OS need to be used in one of the U1MB's OS slots in order for this to work?

 

The reason behind my questions is that I am looking for a compact internal CF device, don't need to have SDX on it (got that in the U1MB), don't need an RTC (also got that in the U1MB), and I don't think I would need the MyIDE ][ to have any flash ROM present since the U1MB has the OS slots available. So am I way off base here???

 

This is the schematic for the simple DIY MyIDE ][ from the MrAtari site...

 

 

- Michael

[flashjazzcat]

You'd have to decode the IDE registers more accurately for use with U1MB PBI. IIRC, in the DIY version they're spread all over $D5xx, and the retail MYIDE has them at the wrong address (clashes with PBI RAM).

Edited May 10, 2017 by flashjazzcat

[Roydea6]

I have both and internal and external MyIDE ]1[, As is the drawing of the one posted above. The internal MyIDE is in an XEGS and the external is built into a cartridge with a CF card adapter to IDE 40 Pin. (The same is needed for my internal MyIDE ]1[). The U1M 800XL and MyIDE ]1[ cartridge only needs the MyIDE.SYS file loaded to see the CF card, and the XEGS internal MyIDE ]1[ needs the MyIDEI.SYS file loaded with an SDX448 cartridge plugged into the cartridge slot to see the CF card.

 

I don't use anything but the standard OS rom for XL and standard XEGS 16k OS for the internal.