Tanooki Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) ^And all this time I thought the two major detractors were the scumbags who either lie and say it didn't arrive, or it arrived missing/damaged goods who then try and twist your arm to extort money out of you or the item for free. Oh more good news, Namco is more on board. The Tales of RPG series and Taiko Drum Master are heading to Switch which was announced just earlier today. Edited January 17, 2017 by Tanooki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Probably the two major detractors for sales on ebay. Neighbors throw perfectly good stuff out because of the time it takes to sell it. And myself as well. That's why Goodwill exists. Better to donate it than toss it in the trash... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 ...when it's a handheld, yes. But there's no reason the dock couldn't have a helper chip or two in it. I think I could think of some reasons. The dock comes in the same $300 package and when bought by itself it is $90. That seems a little much too me, more so with just the dock because the idea is to buy more than one of them to move to other TV's, but I'm sure Nintendo set these prices so that later they have some wiggle room to drop prices while still making money on the hardware for Black Friday sales, new bundles, to not have the same complaints about how the price of the Wii U never dropped, etc. But if it had a helper chip or two in it that could lower the wiggle room for a price drop to potentially nothing and/or even make higher starting prices. Therefore, the dock itself is part of balancing things like price the same as if it was in the handheld itself. The dock already helps to allow the handheld to perform better but helper chips could potentially mess up the message of what the Switch is all about. For an example, if the dock did more than a small boost but was more like it turns into a PS4 when docked then instead of the message being that it is a home console that you could take on the go it would be more like it is a home console that you can take half of it with you on the go. Thinking,"It is a home console that you can take on the go." or the same thing but from the opposite direction,"It is a portable handheld console that can be docked." are easier concepts to grasp than,"It is a console with two halves that are different consoles depending on if the halves are together or not." In other words, it could cause the same issue as what the Wii U had of people not getting what it is all about. If third party developers find the Switch too underpowered then I don't see how helper chips in the dock would change that because when in handheld mode they would still have to make the same version of the game as they would now without helper chips. And including helper chips may make the process even harder than without them. They may have to make two versions, it may be harder to program for both configurations, both sets of chips communicating with each other through USB-C may cause issues that wouldn't exist if they were on the same board, a developer that wants to develop a game specifically targeting the Switch instead of a port currently could get away with very little change if any at all when docked but with helper chips gamers would expect them to push the hardware when docked(The same for Nintendo first party titles), etc. In other words, with helper chips developers would still have to create the same version of a game as they would now for handheld mode but when making the docked version it could be more complicated than how it currently is by just adjusting settings like clock speed and instead could be more like trying to get third party support for two new Nintendo consoles instead of one. Since we are at least in agreement about handheld mode(which is the console) and you think the dock should have helper chips then you aren't really arguing that the console is underpowered. It seems more like,"The console is powered fine for what we could expect for a handheld but the dock is underpowered." So, what other dock is it underpowered relative to and since when has the quality of a dock been determined by how much extra power it has in it? Anyway, I think its form factor changes or at least should change what should be expected for its power. Thinking it should be basically a PS4 in a handheld is an unreasonable expectation because if that could be done then Sony would already have done it or at least the PS4 would be closer in size to the PlayStation TV. Or thinking the handheld is fine but when combined with the dock it should basically become a PS4 also seems like an unreasonable expectation for reasons described above. Reasonable expectations would be if it is underpowered compared to phones/tablets which it is not and if it has more quality gaming potential than those which it clearly does, if it is more powerful than the 3DS and Wii U so that Nintendo could create games that require more power than any dedicated gaming device they have previously released to create a more home console experience for a handheld, and if it is more powerful than other dedicated gaming handheld consoles on the market like the failed PS Vita and the...umm... hmm... I guess in this market Nintendo has something similar to the NES's monopoly on home consoles but in handheld consoles which that past monopoly worked out well for them and Nintendo has always dominated the handheld market. I mean, the 3DS line as of the end of September sold 61.57 million units. That is almost as many as the NES and is still more than the PS4 that is at 53.4 million as of this month. Also, as of this month, since that September number, the 3DS is now over 70 million units. Not bad for an "underpowered" handheld that is currently the 10th best-selling console of all time with 4 of the consoles that done better than it being other Nintendo consoles with 3 of those being other handhelds and the Wii being the only home one that this Switch shares similar functions with but upgraded ones and the 3DS is currently the present best-selling console. Is not the Switch that shares a similar form factor of this best-seller a big step up in power and functionality and therefore have enough power to potentially sell as well or at least sell within a range that would be considered successful? And if successful then isn't comparing its power to consoles that aren't handheld and expecting the same power as them unreasonable expectations? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fH_wl8ceAg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZKI3XMa4b8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MCuSihEcmc Edited January 17, 2017 by OldSchoolRetroGamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I agree a lot to what Pat's perspective is: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I think I could think of some reasons. The dock comes in the same $300 package and when bought by itself it is $90. That seems a little much too me, more so with just the dock because the idea is to buy more than one of them to move to other TV's, but I'm sure Nintendo set these prices so that later they have some wiggle room to drop prices while still making money on the hardware for Black Friday sales, new bundles, to not have the same complaints about how the price of the Wii U never dropped, etc. But if it had a helper chip or two in it that could lower the wiggle room for a price drop to potentially nothing and/or even make higher starting prices. Therefore, the dock itself is part of balancing things like price the same as if it was in the handheld itself. The dock already helps to allow the handheld to perform better but helper chips could potentially mess up the message of what the Switch is all about. For an example, if the dock did more than a small boost but was more like it turns into a PS4 when docked then instead of the message being that it is a home console that you could take on the go it would be more like it is a home console that you can take half of it with you on the go. Thinking,"It is a home console that you can take on the go." or the same thing but from the opposite direction,"It is a portable handheld console that can be docked." are easier concepts to grasp than,"It is a console with two halves that are different consoles depending on if the halves are together or not." In other words, it could cause the same issue as what the Wii U had of people not getting what it is all about. If third party developers find the Switch too underpowered then I don't see how helper chips in the dock would change that because when in handheld mode they would still have to make the same version of the game as they would now without helper chips. And including helper chips may make the process even harder than without them. They may have to make two versions, it may be harder to program for both configurations, both sets of chips communicating with each other through USB-C may cause issues that wouldn't exist if they were on the same board, a developer that wants to develop a game specifically targeting the Switch instead of a port currently could get away with very little change if any at all when docked but with helper chips gamers would expect them to push the hardware when docked(The same for Nintendo first party titles), etc. In other words, with helper chips developers would still have to create the same version of a game as they would now for handheld mode but when making the docked version it could be more complicated than how it currently is by just adjusting settings like clock speed and instead could be more like trying to get third party support for two new Nintendo consoles instead of one. Since we are at least in agreement about handheld mode(which is the console) and you think the dock should have helper chips then you aren't really arguing that the console is underpowered. It seems more like,"The console is powered fine for what we could expect for a handheld but the dock is underpowered." So, what other dock is it underpowered relative to and since when has the quality of a dock been determined by how much extra power it has in it? Anyway, I think its form factor changes or at least should change what should be expected for its power. Thinking it should be basically a PS4 in a handheld is an unreasonable expectation because if that could be done then Sony would already have done it or at least the PS4 would be closer in size to the PlayStation TV. Or thinking the handheld is fine but when combined with the dock it should basically become a PS4 also seems like an unreasonable expectation for reasons described above. Reasonable expectations would be if it is underpowered compared to phones/tablets which it is not and if it has more quality gaming potential than those which it clearly does, if it is more powerful than the 3DS and Wii U so that Nintendo could create games that require more power than any dedicated gaming device they have previously released to create a more home console experience for a handheld, and if it is more powerful than other dedicated gaming handheld consoles on the market like the failed PS Vita and the...umm... hmm... I guess in this market Nintendo has something similar to the NES's monopoly on home consoles but in handheld consoles which that past monopoly worked out well for them and Nintendo has always dominated the handheld market. I mean, the 3DS line as of the end of September sold 61.57 million units. That is almost as many as the NES and is still more than the PS4 that is at 53.4 million as of this month. Also, as of this month, since that September number, the 3DS is now over 70 million units. Not bad for an "underpowered" handheld that is currently the 10th best-selling console of all time with 4 of the consoles that done better than it being other Nintendo consoles with 3 of those being other handhelds and the Wii being the only home one that this Switch shares similar functions with but upgraded ones and the 3DS is currently the present best-selling console. Is not the Switch that shares a similar form factor of this best-seller a big step up in power and functionality and therefore have enough power to potentially sell as well or at least sell within a range that would be considered successful? And if successful then isn't comparing its power to consoles that aren't handheld and expecting the same power as them unreasonable expectations? I seriously doubt there's any "helper chips" in the dock. It may have translation circuitry for the HDMI video output, USB ports, power supply, and possibly a cooling fan to actively cool the gamepad as the CPU runs unbridled. Current draw and heat output will increase as the CPU increases it's output thus necessitating a small but quiet fan. This current draw may be beyond what the battery pack or passive cooling could safely handle. I wouldn't put it past Nintendo, but I seriously doubt there's a "helper" CPU or GPU inside the dock. Such a helper GPU chip would also complicate programming and have limited functionality since it would be constrained by the USB-C bandwidth. Sometime around launch, someone will do a full teardown of the console and we'll have id of every single chip and what it does. Until then, everything is hearsay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Pac Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Call this an observation which it is it seems to me the ones who have been the most critical of The Switch are the same ones who were against it when rumors came it was in the works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZKI3XMa4b8 'This is the least nintendo-like system since the gamecube' Edit: oops, I think he meant with 'nintendo-like', the console should be really different from ps/xbox (Nintendo-like = not(ps) and not(xbox)) and apparently the switch isn't that much different from those? My brain hurts a bit now. Edited January 17, 2017 by roland p 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'm not clicking on any talking head videos posted here without comments or context. From the Classic NES thread, which accidentally turned down Switch road Yeah oops wrong thread. And I get being annoyed at more parts. But let's assume it does in its eye it has have the capability to make out motions, shapes, etc, it's possible a light gun game would work. But even if it didn't, there is the USB port in the base. They could potentially sell later down the line a game/IR bundle which featured the old NES and SNES lineup of their better 1st party titles (and third if they wanted to share in the fun like the Nintendo CE.) Charge maybe $30 and have the bar and 20 games on there. Have the 8/16bit originals, maybe a modern mode side by side like I said. It could be a fun thing and with their party environment pitch on that original video of theirs it would fit the mold. If you want to continue this i'd copy my paste and your last into the other thread. Hey Tanooki, do you think a "sensor bar" is really needed in 2017, with the greater accuracy of gyro controls we have nowadays? I wouldn't want that extra crap, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I don't know because I have no idea how damn good their eye in that one joycon controller really is. If that thing can not only see rock paper scissors, but small moving objects or placement of objects on a flat surface (say like cans on a ledge in Hogan's Alley or Ducks in Duck Hunt) then no it wouldn't. But if it can't and some basic thing is needed I was just kind of thinking it out there. Oh by the way probably could come to the Switch, but No Man's Sky has been exclusively released (due to the hardware required) for the Tegra format Nvidia Shield Tablet and Console ONLY. Given the switch is a beefier (to some point) version of said tablet, it could indicate another possible conversion. Those vidoes up there, the guy with the nose is spot on and not being a suck up. The tubby british troll though seems to be getting higher by the years sniffing his own farts. He sits there and wastes nearly 1/4 of his talking time bitching about NIntendo renting out a single game per month as a feature of their online service like it's some horrid stab wound in the back or a slap to the face with a glove. Goes further with no education of the parts/costs involved into going into a rambling diatribe about the controllers and their prices, and all sorts of other smarmy garbage while repeatedly going back to the 1 month rental game and mocking 1-2 switch. There always has to be some ass out there on youtube trolling for subscribers trying to be the cool hater who can sound informed by pretending to be smart. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'm not clicking on any talking head videos posted here without comments or context. I guess everyone is repeating/recycling stuff we already know. Just like when some info about the NES Classic was out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I think I could think of some reasons. The dock comes in the same $300 package and when bought by itself it is $90. That seems a little much too me, more so with just the dock because the idea is to buy more than one of them to move to other TV's, but I'm sure Nintendo set these prices so that later they have some wiggle room to drop prices while still making money on the hardware for Black Friday sales, new bundles, to not have the same complaints about how the price of the Wii U never dropped, etc. But if it had a helper chip or two in it that could lower the wiggle room for a price drop to potentially nothing and/or even make higher starting prices. Therefore, the dock itself is part of balancing things like price the same as if it was in the handheld itself. The dock already helps to allow the handheld to perform better but helper chips could potentially mess up the message of what the Switch is all about. For an example, if the dock did more than a small boost but was more like it turns into a PS4 when docked then instead of the message being that it is a home console that you could take on the go it would be more like it is a home console that you can take half of it with you on the go. Thinking,"It is a home console that you can take on the go." or the same thing but from the opposite direction,"It is a portable handheld console that can be docked." are easier concepts to grasp than,"It is a console with two halves that are different consoles depending on if the halves are together or not." In other words, it could cause the same issue as what the Wii U had of people not getting what it is all about. If third party developers find the Switch too underpowered then I don't see how helper chips in the dock would change that because when in handheld mode they would still have to make the same version of the game as they would now without helper chips. And including helper chips may make the process even harder than without them. They may have to make two versions, it may be harder to program for both configurations, both sets of chips communicating with each other through USB-C may cause issues that wouldn't exist if they were on the same board, a developer that wants to develop a game specifically targeting the Switch instead of a port currently could get away with very little change if any at all when docked but with helper chips gamers would expect them to push the hardware when docked(The same for Nintendo first party titles), etc. In other words, with helper chips developers would still have to create the same version of a game as they would now for handheld mode but when making the docked version it could be more complicated than how it currently is by just adjusting settings like clock speed and instead could be more like trying to get third party support for two new Nintendo consoles instead of one. Since we are at least in agreement about handheld mode(which is the console) and you think the dock should have helper chips then you aren't really arguing that the console is underpowered. It seems more like,"The console is powered fine for what we could expect for a handheld but the dock is underpowered." So, what other dock is it underpowered relative to and since when has the quality of a dock been determined by how much extra power it has in it? Anyway, I think its form factor changes or at least should change what should be expected for its power. Thinking it should be basically a PS4 in a handheld is an unreasonable expectation because if that could be done then Sony would already have done it or at least the PS4 would be closer in size to the PlayStation TV. Or thinking the handheld is fine but when combined with the dock it should basically become a PS4 also seems like an unreasonable expectation for reasons described above. Reasonable expectations would be if it is underpowered compared to phones/tablets which it is not and if it has more quality gaming potential than those which it clearly does, if it is more powerful than the 3DS and Wii U so that Nintendo could create games that require more power than any dedicated gaming device they have previously released to create a more home console experience for a handheld, and if it is more powerful than other dedicated gaming handheld consoles on the market like the failed PS Vita and the...umm... hmm... I guess in this market Nintendo has something similar to the NES's monopoly on home consoles but in handheld consoles which that past monopoly worked out well for them and Nintendo has always dominated the handheld market. I mean, the 3DS line as of the end of September sold 61.57 million units. That is almost as many as the NES and is still more than the PS4 that is at 53.4 million as of this month. Also, as of this month, since that September number, the 3DS is now over 70 million units. Not bad for an "underpowered" handheld that is currently the 10th best-selling console of all time with 4 of the consoles that done better than it being other Nintendo consoles with 3 of those being other handhelds and the Wii being the only home one that this Switch shares similar functions with but upgraded ones and the 3DS is currently the present best-selling console. Is not the Switch that shares a similar form factor of this best-seller a big step up in power and functionality and therefore have enough power to potentially sell as well or at least sell within a range that would be considered successful? And if successful then isn't comparing its power to consoles that aren't handheld and expecting the same power as them unreasonable expectations? /verbose The handheld is portable. In order to have a decent battery life, it throttles performance to 720p when out and about. When on the dock, it can run off of line power and render at 1080p. "Helper chips" aren't in the mix here, never have been as far as I can tell. The dock is $90 because this platform is new and that's what the market will bear. The 3DS and Vita are over 5 years old and not particularly powerful. They're still capable of delivering a great game, as are current tablets and phones. Switch will sell fine. Some people are expressing disappointment, some are ecstatic. Three hundred dollars seems perfectly reasonable for what's being offered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Oh by the way probably could come to the Switch, but No Man's Sky has been exclusively released (due to the hardware required) for the Tegra format Nvidia Shield Tablet and Console ONLY. Given the switch is a beefier (to some point) version of said tablet, it could indicate another possible conversion. Not quite. It's on GeForce Now, which is a streaming service, like LiquidTV or Playstation Now. It hasn't been ported to Android, at least not yet. Some of the press is really misleading about this. You got me all spun up there for a minute, I was legitimately excited about a port! When you buy it on GeForce Now, you get a PC key and a license to stream it. https://shield.nvidia.com/games/geforce-now/no-man-s-sky That would be a nice portable game, very chill. In the meantime, I'm watching Morphite and hope it turns into something special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hmm yeah the media did more fake news didn't they? Damn. Oh well. I want to get it on GoG eventually. But before stuff like that happens, I need to clear out this pile of stuff I have on and off ebay first. Fed up with sitting on backlog and disused stuff. Probably going to throw it up here shortly to see if there are bites. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I seriously doubt there's any "helper chips" in the dock. It may have translation circuitry for the HDMI video output, USB ports, power supply, and possibly a cooling fan to actively cool the gamepad as the CPU runs unbridled. Current draw and heat output will increase as the CPU increases it's output thus necessitating a small but quiet fan. This current draw may be beyond what the battery pack or passive cooling could safely handle. I wouldn't put it past Nintendo, but I seriously doubt there's a "helper" CPU or GPU inside the dock. Such a helper GPU chip would also complicate programming and have limited functionality since it would be constrained by the USB-C bandwidth. Sometime around launch, someone will do a full teardown of the console and we'll have id of every single chip and what it does. Until then, everything is hearsay. The exact specifics may be hearsay but the entire console being in the console and the dock just being a dock has been confirmed. You don't have to seriously doubt that it has helper chips in the form of more processing power because you can know it because the dock only has in it what is necessary for docking it to the TV while the entire console being in the console. It has already been confirmed that the dock is just for playing your Switch in HD on your TV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The dock is about as important as the dock was for the Neo-Geo X if you think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Future mods might be wireless video transmission or replacing the inbuilt screen to a higher resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 The dock is about as important as the dock was for the Neo-Geo X if you think about it. rather have a dock than keeping up with yet another dumbass cable that cost 3x as much as it should cause its "special" Future mods might be wireless video transmission or replacing the inbuilt screen to a higher resolution. people already blame screen lag for why they are not as good at megaman when they are 40 as they were when they were 8, and it could be a 89K gazillion pixel screen in there, wont do jack shit if the games are programmed for anything less, all you get is upscaling, blur and the "lag" of a 4ms screen response with controls updating every 17ms 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I was watching these gamer review videos. And the whole shebang seems like "too much". I don't recall reviews done in the 70's being boisterous and circus like.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I'd rather have a cheap dock too, not sure why you're arguing. Had Tommo not f'd up the coding so horribly with their firmware and final burn alpha ripoff in general and in relation to the dock with HDMI output I'd have bought one as it could have been an epic handheld so my post wasn't a negative. As to your other crack, you're wrong. Sure people may not be as skilled as they think they were, but display lag is a real thing, and it's made all the worse by a lot of piss poor external scaling devices or a crap internal one on the TV converting the signal. Any post processing, internal conversion, and even just taking a 60hz image and ramping it up to a 120, 240 etc level output of a new TV adds milliseconds of lag. Typically if you can keep it at 30ms or less unless you're having a vivid imagination or you're truly robotic hyper sensitive like to stuff you can still take down (great test for it) Mike Tyson in Punchout. Once you crack over that 30ms level you will see later on screen than where the game is and you're fubar. I know this from experience between 4 different TVs over the last decade. I had this fantastic 720P Panasonic Viera up until a couple years ago and it had so few features being from the mid 00s, it was rock solid. But around 2011-12 we got this huge Samsung, put the Wii on it, and suddenly my play suffered on 2D stuff. I had initially blamed Nintendo for a shitty port of SMAS in that anniversary bundle and pissed off sold it. Couple years later moved the Wii to the Viera, ended up in an odd deal getting another copy, and it magically had no more lag to it. I've since run games of that style on a Vizio I researched on displaylag.com before buying (when the Viera got cracked), and on a same age Samsung I inherited last year from my late grandma's possessions and it too runs the same level ms (25-26 range) as the vizio and still rock solid. It may be a fact some people can't accept they suck and use it as a lie for getting out of practice or just always being terrible but it is a real problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 60 hz is 16.6666666 etc ms that is what all NSTC consoles scan their controllers at until the later 90's and even then some, if your thinking your 25-26 ms range is good, then lag is an excuse, your screen response is 1.5ish times slower than the controller input, but modern faster screens are shit ok, right you are right that people put too much crap tween their games and their screens, every little box tween here and there adds a tiny bit of post processing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Since we are at least in agreement about handheld mode(which is the console) and you think the dock should have helper chips then you aren't really arguing that the console is underpowered. In fact, I am doing exactly that, for the approximately the fourth time in this thread now. I'm not really sure why this is difficult to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 In fact, I am doing exactly that, for the approximately the fourth time in this thread now. I'm not really sure why this is difficult to understand. Because you went from the console being underpowered to the dock being underpowered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) its underpowered, simple as that, its a last gen XBOX360 era low powered mobile device ... clap clap they gave mario's shirt a texture now the question really is where is this console marketed? Nintendoh has already said it's not replacing the DS lineup, so its not a handheld but its a home console that does neither handheld or home console gaming all that well, which puts them into a sega IS IT a handheld? they say no, but that's a marketing point IS it a home only console? they say no its a console for yuppies on the go so what is is nintendoh? and why even before release you have competition for your own next gen ... still last gen non handheld non console ... console by your own handheld system, and not competing with even last generation home systems PS ... dont call this tablet a tablet its a console for young professionals on the go... which have very little time to play games tween 50 hour work weeks and family .... so confused by this thing Edited January 18, 2017 by Osgeld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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