Nintendo Switch

[Schizophretard]

And it's not just games. Music, movies, TV shows....owning stuff is becoming something only creepy old people who probably smell like grandpa do.

 

I have always felt the opposite and associated not owning your media to older generations like my father's who is now a creepy old smelly grandpa.

 

[Asaki]

When I went to go pick up the Wii U version at my local Gamestop they asked me if I had pre-ordered it and I said no.

Yeah, I figured the WiiU version would be harder to get, so I made sure to reserve a copy at Gamestop. I didn't bother to ask the guy how many they had.

 

And on that anyone notice Nintendo is screwing physical media buyers hard on their coins for the shop of theirs? Buy a real game copy you get 4x less (gold) coins. That's a really shitty move on their part.

That sucks, but I guess it's better than no coins at all.

 

...on the other hand, My Nintendo is still really lame compared to Club Nintendo. I used to get so many free games, posters, etc. and now the rewards are very lackluster. I had high hopes that they would improve, but it's been a while now and nothing has really changed.

[Atariboy]

I'm hearing that you can use a female-to-male USB Type-C extension cable to connect the system to the dock, allowing you to charge the system and play on your television without actually having to insert it into the dock.

 

Might be handy in some situations where the dock isn't placed in an ideal position to easily dock and un-dock the system, or for the overly paranoid that have seen the reports of screen scratches caused by the dock.

[Flojomojo]

I would think a "dock-on-a-cable" product could be done, perhaps by a third party. It would be a lot more portable, and possibly cheaper too.

[Schizophretard]

It's an infrastructure thing. Currently there are several modes to internet access, but nearly everything uses some existing infrastructure designed for something else:

 

1. Dial up. Still exists believe it or not. Bog standard 56kbit, slow as balls, 1990s style internet. For many rural areas outside of 4G cellular coverage, it is the only affordable option for some people.
2. DSL. Good "last mile" option for existing landline users, however much of the cabling was installed and buried over 50 years ago and was only meant to carry audible bandwidth. The fact that these ancient wiring can carry broadband megabit connections at all is a miracle. My ATT Uverse server is literally a half mile the way the crow flies, 7000 feet in practice, but the condition of the wiring is so degraded that our six megabit connection is all that it can handle. Before we got DSL, the lines were constantly full of static. They tried to upgrade our service for free to 21 megabit a few months back, and our service blacked out because the wiring was too lossy. A technician had to come out and fix our router. And we live in the suburbs in the middle of a metropolitan area of 300,000.
3. Cable. Probably the best option for residential subscribers. Often faster than DSL. Still not an option for rural areas. Due to the nature of cable splitters, a connection requires fast downlink and slow uplink.
4. Mobile data plan. Connect PC or smart device to mobile phone. Low data caps and very expensive overages. Networks already congested in urban areas, as there just isn't enough bandwidth available for the tens of thousands of users to all access high speed data. Works fairly well in rural areas that get good mobile coverage however.
5. Satallite downlink. Extremely expensive, and requires a landline dial up modem for uplink. Very high latency.
6. Fiber optic. Fine if you're a university, hospital, telecom company, office complex, or any business or government entity with a large campus that needs ten gigabits or more.

What needs to be done here is infrastructure so that fiber optic runs the "last mile" to each apartment complex or residential neighborhood, then have a dedicated Gigabit ethernet or coax line running to each home or residence designed for high speed transfer, as opposed to the existing system of piggybacking on some other utility service, be it phone, cable TV, satellite, or mobile carrier. The most common DSL and Cable options piggyback on existing utilities laid down decades ago. Wtih most existing subscribers already using existing infrastructure, new infrastructure will be difficult and expensive to provide to end users do to the huge investment, whether it runs via buried cable or utility poles.

 

And wifi simply isn't an option for urban broadband. The entire usable spectrum from 100kHz all the way to 10GHz can only hangle 10Gbit of data, or a hundred users at 100Mbit, one thousand users at 10Mbit, and that assumes that every communication band that exists were open to use for broadband internet. Frequencies above 5GHz have difficulty penetrating walls or bodies. Really nothing above 2GHz could penetrate the typical domicile, so receivers would need to be placed outside buildings, and that assumes line-of-sight to the transmitter. Mobile 4G networks which can only operate in certain bands are already super congested.

 

I live out in the sticks and have DSL from AT&T that also requires me to pay for a landline phone service I don't need or use. I just did a speed test and got a download speed of 2.54 Mbps and an upload speed of .44 Mbps. Anyway, recently I lost internet from high winds. They sent a guy out to rewire everything. As he was doing so I was asking about when we would get better options like Uverse. He said that the DSL service I use has been discontinued in the sense of no new customers and if I ever shut it off then they wouldn't ever turn it back on. He said their goal for around 2020 is to only offer fiber as a wired option for urban areas starting with places like apartment buildings because they can get many customers in one shot but for rural areas the only option would be phone data plans. He said that now I could get better service with a data plan but it would be better to wait until fiber and phone data are the only options because phone data plans would have more competitive prices for how much internet I use. I asked him why data plans will be the only options for rural areas. He explained that the price to put thousands of miles of fiber to reach low population areas wouldn't be worth it and AT&T is trying to get the most bang for their buck. So, their plan is to discontinue everything but fiber for urban areas and data plans for rural areas while adding in a lot more phone towers. I asked him after this 2020 plan how long he expects for it to take to eventually get fiber covering the entire country including rural areas and maybe even the globe. He said that technology is constantly changing so there may be other methods but so far how things look this 2020 plan is what he expects to be the norm for quite a long time.

 

Therefore, unless gaming companies are confident that all the customers they need are only the urban ones and that their competitors feel the same way then, in my opinion, they will have something similar to this two options only 2020 plan by people in urban areas having the options to both stream games or store them locally either through downloads or physical media while rural areas will just have the store them locally options. And I don't mean that in the sense that it is used now with streaming services offering very limited and different games than the locally stored ones but another option added for the same games just as digital downloads have been added for the same games that you could get physically. For an example, you would own a PlayStation console and you could either buy the game on a disc, download it, or stream it(with some kind of PlayStation Plus like subscription service). There may even be something like 3 different PlayStations to choose from. One would be the normal one that can do all 3 options, one would be a cheap Onlive like streaming box, and one would be like the cheap Onlive streaming box but comes built into Sony TV's. That is the type of future I expect.

[atarian63]

That's right. And the gaming public has spoken. How could they not have? They're clamoring for more. They want the lease option. No cartridges or discs to fart around with. And instant acquisition too!

sometimes that is fine, I prefer to own, just like my cars.

[Tanooki]

That sucks, but I guess it's better than no coins at all.

 

...on the other hand, My Nintendo is still really lame compared to Club Nintendo. I used to get so many free games, posters, etc. and now the rewards are very lackluster. I had high hopes that they would improve, but it's been a while now and nothing has really changed.

 

Yup it's pretty cheap. I'm just banking coins in case they decide to do something worth my effort with it. That reminds me I don't think I cashed in on Isaac physical yet. I have to check it but I think you get like 40% of the coinage of a download which is pretty weak but I refuse to convert.

 

I'm hearing that you can use a female-to-male USB Type-C extension cable to connect the system to the dock, allowing you to charge the system and play on your television without actually having to insert it into the dock.

 

Might be handy in some situations where the dock isn't placed in an ideal position to easily dock and un-dock the system, or for the overly paranoid that have seen the reports of screen scratches caused by the dock.

You're correct, many videos of it are online. If you're scared of screen scuffs and don't want a nice fabric cozy for your stand what you do is get a 1ft USB-C connector and jack that into the base. Next to the base get the $10-15~ cheap Hori Switch handheld stand, and then place it on there and the other end of the cable into that. 100% surrogate for the original cradle, runs as if it were in it in the first place since the cradle itself is a 'stupid' dock so it just sees the Switch is jacked into it due to the USB-C adapter and you're good to go. You want the hori stand because the cooling intake on the Switch would be placed on the table otherwise and not be good with overheating.

 

 

I went and looked into my updated info on yesasia, they finally submitted a tracking # with the order within the last few days. It's in the US and was sitting in Chicago for 2 days at the huge hub but was shipped out this morning. I have no idea why it would take 4 days to get here (Friday) from like a 7hour drive from here, but whatever. Small packets shipping I guess means they find someone to walk it here when it's convenient.

[Flojomojo]

sometimes that is fine, I prefer to own, just like my cars.

Cars: ticking time-bombs of repair heartbreak

 

(unless you have a garage and know how to work on them)

[adamchevy]

I'm not sure I'm going to need another game besides Zelda Breath of the Wild for a few years. I have pretty limited game time, usually 5-8 hours a week max if I'm lucky. I try and scan my amiibo in every day, but other that not much . Strangely I find myself wanting to preorder the new Street Fighter game coming to the Switch . It's probably because I don't like letting my skills go to waste .

[Tanooki]

That's something I forgot to note. Amazon put a date on that game the other day and a solid price of $39.99 for Ultra Street Fighter II. It's out in May, back last third of the month, forgot the exact date, but I want to say maybe the 25th.

 

I've got it parked in an amazon shopping cart along with that Tetris Puyo game and MK8 (never had it on WiiU) so it's more of a matter of learning a bit more then pulling the trigger on some/all of it. SF2 is a given, Mario Kart almost as much so, but the puzzler I want to know more about the modes involved. I'd like there to be a 1P endless etc type mode for just Puyo and just Tetris before I'd bite. I don't like playing against sketchy AI and like to game offline so I won't be screwing around against people online with it most likely.

[Punisher5.0]

So do you automatically get the coins on a digital game?

[Flojomojo]

So do you automatically get the coins on a digital game?

Yes. It looks like you can redeem a code or something if you put a game card into the system. I wonder if you could do that multiple times with loaner games, or if the card is serialized somehow?

[atarian63]

Cars: ticking time-bombs of repair heartbreak

 

(unless you have a garage and know how to work on them)

No, a lease is just pissing money away with no return, I drive over 20k miles per year. a lease makes mo sense, and yes I do like to work on them

[Flojomojo]

No, a lease is just pissing money away with no return, I drive over 20k miles per year. a lease makes mo sense, and yes I do like to work on them

I buy my cars with cash too ...not sure I agree with the analogy to video games, other than most (not all, yada yada yada) games and most cars being depreciating assets that hold their value poorly.

:-)

[Tusecsy]

Stop catering to the lowest common denominator (22 years old and under). Physical media is not going away, the current digital trend is a result of disc-based being an antiquated technology (moving parts). The future is still physical media for at least 20-30 years thanks to the ever growing capacity and ever shrinking size of secure digital and flash drives. They're simply faster and move mobile, and don't require countless bs updates which only detract from the gaming experience.

 

How many times has your family member or friend lost photos or music etc thanks to a bs iCloud sync? How is that a better technology than having everything you own on a 1" flash stick?

 

There are people all over the world in the military, people who travel, people in rural areas, people with data limits, etc. How many games have completely disappeared thanks to digital only release servers shutting down? Why has there been such a giant spike in things like retro video games and vinyl records? That feeling of owning what you pay for is always going to be different than throwing 10$ at a digital title you only play a couple of times, playing an album once on spotify, or skimming through an ebook.

 

I am not anti-digital technology as a whole, but the argument that physical media is suddenly going to disappear is about as dumb as auto-driving cars becoming standard at any point in the next 20 years. To put it bluntly and generally, young people simply ride bandwagons, and don't have any real opinion or taste that matters other than what the latest facebook ad campaign shoved down their throat. The people who still create content, and who actually love it, want things to stick around and hold in their hands. And if it sucks, at least you can always resell it. (a pretty great deal for those who are willing to wait a couple of months out from when something is released)

Edited March 22, 2017 by Tusecsy

[Prosystemsearch]

Yeah, I figured the WiiU version would be harder to get, so I made sure to reserve a copy at Gamestop. I didn't bother to ask the guy how many they had.

 

 

That sucks, but I guess it's better than no coins at all.

 

...on the other hand, My Nintendo is still really lame compared to Club Nintendo. I used to get so many free games, posters, etc. and now the rewards are very lackluster. I had high hopes that they would improve, but it's been a while now and nothing has really changed.

Don't give up! Email your concerns directly to them!

Edited March 22, 2017 by Prosystemsearch

[BillLoguidice]

Stop catering to the lowest common denominator (22 years old and under). Physical media is not going away, the current digital trend is a result of disc-based being an antiquated technology (moving parts). The future is still physical media for at least 20-30 years thanks to the ever growing capacity and ever shrinking size of secure digital and flash drives. They're simply faster and move mobile, and don't require countless bs updates which only detract from the gaming experience.

 

How many times has your family member or friend lost photos or music etc thanks to a bs iCloud sync? How is that a better technology than having everything you own on a 1" flash stick?

 

There are people all over the world in the military, people who travel, people in rural areas, people with data limits, etc. How many games have completely disappeared thanks to digital only release servers shutting down? Why has there been such a giant spike in things like retro video games and vinyl records? That feeling of owning what you pay for is always going to be different than throwing 10$ at a digital title you only play a couple of times, playing an album once on spotify, or skimming through an ebook.

 

I am not anti-digital technology as a whole, but the argument that physical media is suddenly going to disappear is about as dumb as auto-driving cars becoming standard at any point in the next 20 years. To put it bluntly and generally, young people simply ride bandwagons, and don't have any real opinion or taste that matters other than what the latest facebook ad campaign shoved down their throat. The people who still create content, and who actually love it, want things to stick around and hold in their hands. And if it sucks, at least you can always resell it. (a pretty great deal for those who are willing to wait a couple of months out from when something is released)

 

Unfortunately for your argument, the trend to all digital appears unstoppable at this point. While I do think physical media is here to stay, it will stay in the same niche way that things like vinyl stay. A relatively small, but sizable population will prefer the physical, while the vast majority will prefer the convenience and portability of digital, which will only become more convenient as network speeds continue to improve and service offerings continue to mature. It's inevitable.

 

I'd also argue that cloud-based solutions are better than physical media. Physical media is only as good as the number of copies you have. The more manual the process, the less likely you are to follow through with it, and the less likely the information is going to be current when disaster does strike. With something like Dropbox, I not only have a cloud copy, but also local copies on every device I have Dropbox on. The best part? It's all done seamlessly in the background, complete with revision tracking so I can roll back to earlier versions. Same thing with apps like Evernote. I can store everything I want stored in there and have access anywhere and not have to worry about losing anything, even if the company and/or cloud service itself were to suddenly go poof. While digital media on console and PC is not anywhere near as service-going-away-proof, I think for the vast majority of people, convenience trumps the semi-permanence of physical media ownership.

[phoenixdownita]

I really think that they should solve the resell issue wrt digital only assets.

 

It should be possible/allowed to be able to auction/sell-off my digital copy if I want to at a lower price than the going rate, or even just gift it.

 

The digital titles are rarely discounted (they are but it's like for 1 special day, or for that occasion, or for the 3rd moon of the 4th monsoon ritual kind of a sh.t) .... they just should fingerprint the bejesus out of the digital copy and let me pass-it on/sell to the price I can find a buyer at. Look at how they charge for VirtualConsole titles, I don't recollect them discounting them all that much aside special "give-away".

As a side effect that would force the prices from the "copyrights holder" to come down as well as tired gamers resell what they don't want anymore putting pressure on the market. Also when license expire the old copies can still be sold, all the titles that disappeared from the various online systems why can't they be purchased "second-hand" ... and this time with the guarantee it will work, it'll have no creases in the manual etc...etc... it'll actually finally match the "like new" moniker.

[Tusecsy]

 

Unfortunately for your argument, the trend to all digital appears unstoppable at this point. While I do think physical media is here to stay, it will stay in the same niche way that things like vinyl stay. A relatively small, but sizable population will prefer the physical, while the vast majority will prefer the convenience and portability of digital, which will only become more convenient as network speeds continue to improve and service offerings continue to mature. It's inevitable.

 

I'd also argue that cloud-based solutions are better than physical media. Physical media is only as good as the number of copies you have. The more manual the process, the less likely you are to follow through with it, and the less likely the information is going to be current when disaster does strike. With something like Dropbox, I not only have a cloud copy, but also local copies on every device I have Dropbox on. The best part? It's all done seamlessly in the background, complete with revision tracking so I can roll back to earlier versions. Same thing with apps like Evernote. I can store everything I want stored in there and have access anywhere and not have to worry about losing anything, even if the company and/or cloud service itself were to suddenly go poof. While digital media on console and PC is not anywhere near as service-going-away-proof, I think for the vast majority of people, convenience trumps the semi-permanence of physical media ownership.

Well, if things worked nearly as smoothly as you proclaim in relation to cloud storage I'd agree with you, but they don't. It is not inconvenient to put files on a flash drive on your keychain, despite your apparent urgency to embrace inferior technology. At some point, it may be, but not today, and not in the forseeable future. You're forgetting you need an internet connection to experience the reliability you proclaim, and with my methodology, you don't.

 

When xbox one tried to integrate digital only releases and tying them to purchases, look what happened. Within 12 hours the overwhelming backlash made them change their position. You offer no proof of your claim other than a needless monthly service fee tied to an endless number of "next generation" services. The switch physical sales of Zelda vs. the digital ones tell the real story. Consumers are not ready to sacrifice value for a perceived convenience that doesn't exist. And hell, the digital releases cost the same exact amount so what's the point? Will people be buying 35$ copies of zelda off of ebay in a couple of months or pay 60$ for the digital download?

 

I personally would own fast rmx and blaster master zero if they offered physical copies, just as a simple example. Are you forgetting the millions upon millions of people in the military, who travel, and who have limited online data accessibility? What about people in africa, in siberia? There's a whole vast world out there other than your bedroom.

 

Is digital better than disc based solutions? Absolutely. Is digital better than flash media and drives? Not for the forseeable future.

 

Functionality and actual implementation of said functionality are two vastly different things.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Tusecsy

[BillLoguidice]

Well, if things worked nearly as smoothly as you proclaim in relation to cloud storage I'd agree with you, but they don't. It is not inconvenient to put files on a flash drive on your keychain, despite your apparent urgency to embrace inferior technology. At some point, it may be, but not today, and not in the forseeable future. You're forgetting you need an internet connection to experience the reliability you proclaim, and with my methodology, you don't.

 

 

Yes, it does work as smoothly as I proclaim. I'm never without Internet, and even when I am, the files get saved locally. I used to use the flash drive scenario you describe many years ago before all this ultra-redundant cloud storage was available, and I had zero protection from accidental overwrites or data corruption, and I certainly didn't have automatic redundancy, added to the fact that it's all too easy to lose a physical object like that.

 

 

 

When xbox one tried to integrate digital only releases and tying them to purchases, look what happened. Within 12 hours the overwhelming backlash made them change their position. You offer no proof of your claim other than a needless monthly service fee tied to an endless number of "next generation" services. The switch physical sales of Zelda vs. the digital ones tell the real story. Consumers are not ready to sacrifice value for a perceived convenience that doesn't exist. And hell, the digital releases cost the same exact amount so what's the point? Will people be buying 35$ copies of zelda off of ebay in a couple of months or pay 60$ for the digital download?

 

Part of the Xbox One backlash was a misunderstanding of exactly how it was going to work. There was nothing wrong with the basic concept of being able to play the games you own on any Xbox One with an Internet connection. I'd argue it's far better than being locked down to one system like you are on the Switch. In any case, by being digital on the Xbox One and PS4, as well as PC, I can get most of the way there anyway, so yeah, the backlash was not entirely justified. I also don't agree it had all that much to do with a supposed love of physical media.

 

And yes, physical sales are no doubt greater than digital sales on the Switch because Nintendo has designed the system in such a way to encourage that. The paltry 32GB of internal storage all but demands it. Nevertheless, on other platforms like the Xbox One and PS4, the figures are over 40% for digital, and that number will continue to grow, obviously. On the PC, physical is not even a factor, because it's not even a real option in most cases. There's not exactly a major outcry for the return to physical media there. And certainly the all-digital thing hasn't hurt smartphone and tablet sales, right? Getting used to something on one platform absolutely affects your expectations on another.

 

 

I personally would own fast rmx and blaster master zero if they offered physical copies, just as a simple example. Are you forgetting the millions upon millions of people in the military, who travel, and who have limited online data accessibility? What about people in africa, in siberia? There's a whole vast world out there other than your bedroom.

 

Gosh, you're right, I forgot about the lucrative Siberian market! Again, I clearly stated that there will always be people who want physical and there will always be situations where physical is more practical, but for the vast majority of cases, digital is just fine, and, in many of those cases, preferable. The digital trend will not stop and physical media ownership will continue to decline until it reaches whatever niche levels the bottom is.

Edited March 22, 2017 by BillLoguidice

[Downland1983]

 

Yes, it does work as smoothly as I proclaim. I'm never without Internet, and even when I am, the files get saved locally. I used to use the flash drive scenario you describe many years ago before all this ultra-redundant cloud storage was available, and I had zero protection from accidental overwrites or data corruption, and I certainly didn't have automatic redundancy, added to the fact that it's all too easy to lose a physical object like that.

 

 

Part of the Xbox One backlash was a misunderstanding of exactly how it was going to work. There was nothing wrong with the basic concept of being able to play the games you own on any Xbox One with an Internet connection. I'd argue it's far better than being locked down to one system like you are on the Switch. In any case, by being digital on the Xbox One and PS4, as well as PC, I can get most of the way there anyway, so yeah, the backlash was not entirely justified. I also don't agree it had all that much to do with a supposed love of physical media.

 

And yes, physical sales are no doubt greater than digital sales on the Switch because Nintendo has designed the system in such a way to encourage that. The paltry 32GB of internal storage all but demands it. Nevertheless, on other platforms like the Xbox One and PS4, the figures are over 40% for digital, and that number will continue to grow, obviously. On the PC, physical is not even a factor, because it's not even a real option in most cases. There's not exactly a major outcry for the return to physical media there. And certainly the all-digital thing hasn't hurt smartphone and tablet sales, right? Getting used to something on one platform absolutely affects your expectations on another.

 

 

Gosh, you're right, I forgot about the lucrative Siberian market! Again, I clearly stated that there will always be people who want physical and there will always be situations where physical is more practical, but for the vast majority of cases, digital is just fine, and, in many of those cases, preferable. The digital trend will not stop and physical media ownership will continue to decline until it reaches whatever niche levels the bottom is.

I find that having 500 GB of storage on Xbox One is not much better than having 32 GB on a Wii U or Switch. The Xbox One downloads the full games into internal storage even if you own the physical disk for crying out loud! I found that by the time I owned 6 games for Xbox One, I had to go out and buy a 2TB external drive just so that I wouldn't have to delete physical games I owned out of the storage space in order to play other games. At least the physical games on Wii U & Switch don't eat up any internal storage apart from save files or updates.

Also, I am not enthralled by cloud saves for game files. Nothing is more annoying to me than popping Dragon Age Inquisition into my Xbox One only to be told "Cloud Storage Save File Cannot Be Accessed At This Time. Please Try Again Later". This has happened more than once. It's nice as a back-up, sure. But when it flat out tells you it can't pull up your save file at the exact moment you want it, come back later, that's not a superior means of save file storage to me.

[atarian63]

I buy my cars with cash too ...not sure I agree with the analogy to video games, other than most (not all, yada yada yada) games and most cars being depreciating assets that hold their value poorly.

:-)

I agree with you there! Video games seem a better investment, it's why I prefer a physical copy, not to say I do not ever but DL games but usually the casual low $ kind.

[Flojomojo]

Nevertheless, on other platforms like the Xbox One and PS4, the figures are over 40% for digital, and that number will continue to grow, obviously.

 

This is nice to know. From the quantity and intensity of online b!tching about digital content, I would have expected a lower number.

 

I think it's interesting that Tusecy thinks digital is something driven by younger people who don't know any better. I would have assumed it's driven by old farts like me who don't care about selling off games to PawnStop for pennies on the dollar to buy the flavor of the month.

[Tusecsy]

That 40% figure is pulled out of his ass. It's actually more like 28-29%, and probably only that because of the digital only releases.

 

When digital only works, like on Steam, it's great. But there they run constant sales and packages that make it a no brainer. When you're talking about 60$ new releases, or the used game market, or Target or Walmart or Gamestop, we won't be seeing an overwhelming amount of digital only anytime soon.

[BillLoguidice]

That 40% figure is pulled out of his ass. It's actually more like 28-29%, and probably only that because of the digital only releases.

 

When digital only works, like on Steam, it's great. But there they run constant sales and packages that make it a no brainer. When you're talking about 60$ new releases, or the used game market, or Target or Walmart or Gamestop, we won't be seeing an overwhelming amount of digital only anytime soon.

So you're assuming that people mostly buy digital when there are digital only releases my angry friend? I have my doubts, particularly since retailers seem to be specializing in videogame-related merchandise moreso than actual games these days. They see the writing on the wall and are responding appropriately by pivoting their business models.

 

In any case, I'd agree that for now, videogames are among the last bastions for physical media in terms of percentages, but the fact remains it's in a steady decline that has no logical reason to stop in the future.