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Nothing special

some POKEY stuff

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#1 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:01 PM

Imagining, a coder wants to have some tune inside a game. Using 4 channels and no additional frequency switches, the use of ingame FX could be done with low cpu usage, as you don't have to check AUDCTL and other softwaresettings.
Standard 64kHz 4 channels for a piece of music could be important then. Using a POKEY timer may restrict a tune to 3 channels, but this time I was keen using all 4 channels....
64kHz has it's limits, thus workarounds needed , if music is wanted.
Creating special POKEY tunes that fit to the restrictions of POKEY is one part. Replaying available music with POKEY is another part...
 
is it recognizable?
 
Critisizing recommended ...



Edited by emkay, Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:02 PM.


#2 voy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:01 PM

Is it possible to download a XEX file? I would like to listen your tunes on the real Atari, not on YT. :)



#3 Philsan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:09 PM

Amazing Mario!



#4 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:08 AM

Check it out :)

Attached Files



#5 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:23 PM

Any suggestion for a tune using this style?

#6 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:51 PM


Not sure about this one.



#7 Philsan OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:04 PM

Check it out :)

xex please... ah no... you anticipated my request, thank you!

 

 

Not sure about this one.

 

 

xex please!



#8 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:14 PM

xex please... ah no... you anticipated my request, thank you!
 
 
 
xex please!


hm...

Attached File  hr.xex   5.37KB   52 downloads

#9 pps OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:01 AM

hm...

attachicon.gifhr.xex

Hmm, I remember this song, but a lot! faster. So for me this version sounds very strange.



#10 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 2, 2016 12:59 PM

This one uses more of the modulations stuff... no unwanted cancelling and very low side noise ...

a rushy one ;)



#11 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 1, 2017 1:50 PM

Just for pushing the Thread ;)

It it recognizable?

4ch 50Hz VBI ... just RMT , Playback in SAP/Winamp



#12 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 2, 2017 11:32 AM

For comparision, recorded from Altirra with non linear mixing.



#13 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 4, 2017 6:46 AM

Why no feedback on the last one?
Having 4 channels used for such tune and that frequency range isn't an everyday experience on the A8 ;)

And, btw. how many POKEY renditions of that tune do you know?

Btw. 2 : The non-linear mixing and the "not existing scratching" shows that on the real thing basses can get more pulse.

#14 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 4, 2017 6:53 AM

I think the low feedback is because people like to hear it on the real machine or Altirra and are dubious about the quality that comes from Youtube etc, as its compressing it there's loss, maybe not a lot but its enough to put me off and answers why so many requests for xex's :)



#15 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 5, 2017 7:18 AM

I think the low feedback is because people like to hear it on the real machine or Altirra and are dubious about the quality that comes from Youtube etc, as its compressing it there's loss, maybe not a lot but its enough to put me off and answers why so many requests for xex's :)


Seems to be right, but presenting the tunes that way shows better what I want to show actually.

This time, it's about the max. volume limit on 4 channels. You know, everything gets distorted , when the volume gets exceeded. Particular 4 channels have the most volume problems.
If it's possible, the "non linear mixing" could find it's way into RMT, to have the possibility of creating max pulses where needed, and to reduce them for less sidenoise?

Another rendition of a never ported tune (at least I didn't find one in the ASMA) . It also seems that the "raindrop" style removes a lot of tuning issues.



Edited by emkay, Sun Feb 5, 2017 7:33 AM.


#16 marok OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 6, 2017 4:38 AM

Especially, beauty starting part of this music, IMO. But overall, just for me, at my feeling of "taste", maybe indeed - "nothing special", what I'm rather tending to say. ;) (and comparing to some last others from You, which are really great, if I only could say something about that way, as I'm not thinking myself I'm a pokey-music or, generally, musician expert.)
 
 
BUT, by the way, if You are "touching" ASMA "thing", please consider nowadays (again maybe?) to sending some (better, as many as You want, and would just to like) of Your tunes to ASMA. Why do not do that? (some of us, would be very content from)
 
I think, maybe it could suit for You better, if You can even describe technical background about any piece, if You only can - have to add - something of about that. Then all these informations would be then included and showed when playing a tune (sap) from WASAP player, which is fine and useful extension to a sap music player.
 
Sorry for anything what is of a feeling "offense" from this kind of "an asking speech".
 
(Sorry to everyone, for my very "prone", poor English.)
 
Regards.


#17 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 6, 2017 5:53 AM

Thanks for your statement

 

Especially, beauty starting part of this music, IMO. But overall, just for me, at my feeling of "taste", maybe indeed - "nothing special", what I'm rather tending to say. ;) (and comparing to some last others from You, which are really great, if I only could say something about that way, as I'm not thinking myself I'm a pokey-music or, generally, musician expert.)


In a "special" way "nothing special" is a good vote :)

After the intro of the tune, it generally starts at 0:32
Then you hear the bass "singing" in a way , you never heard that (except in some of my older experiments) till 1:02
Then you get a bassdrum intermission and the main melody starts at 1:16
What disturbs me is for example the bass sound from 1:42 to 1.44 .... but .... ideas were still there ;)
The tune needs also the drums, which should be recognizable.
Then the "type changing" a 2:15 , before that point you get again some "high menuett", you get the low drums, exactly sliding in as the tune needs. To have the nose level low, I used plain voices for some instruments. All the high and low flows in the tune , and at the end the great release, to like to listen to the tune again....

All done with 4 channels at 64kHz, 50Hz programming, and it takes care of the max volume, everytime.


Really, no offence, but show me one tune that does something similar.

Edited by emkay, Mon Feb 6, 2017 5:58 AM.


#18 marok OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 6, 2017 11:31 AM

Hi - really thanks for Your reply, I appreciate it much.
But must say, I'm not understanding all of what have You written here, on all sorts of technical aspects. (It's really doesn't matter at this point to me, to be clear.)
 
 
> Really, no offence, but show me one tune that does something similar.
 
Firstly, I have nothing to complain about this kind of quite "brave" statement. Maybe You are just right and (again) it could be a good idea for me, for example, to look at this much closer than at primary "look", and try to confirm all this (what You've written) and to learn for something (but, still, I'm not a musician).
 
Either I can only believe more or less, for now, what have You written at this. And I keen to believe it quite much.
 
 
 
I do believe, You are very deeply insight on pokey features. You are a pokey-expert (not only for sure) for me, without any doubts. I mean, it is very much, because it takes much time and needs many quite hard efforts to became one. And not everyone can do that (for "intelectual" or any others' reasons).
 
 
Thank You again.


#19 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 6, 2017 1:25 PM

Hi - really thanks for Your reply, I appreciate it much.
But must say, I'm not understanding all of what have You written here, on all sorts of technical aspects. (It's really doesn't matter at this point to me, to be clear.)


It's an endless story. You know why the "leaning tower of Pisa" is interesting? Because it isn't standing as a tower should. If the tower was standing straight, it was nothing special, because it's just a tower.
A Tower can get special by the creation, color... used building style, whatever...


The other side is the use of resources. Ofcourse you could use all CPU time to do digitizing of manipulate POKEY's generators , which is also a type of digitizing. Or you can try to get the most out of the least used resources, so the result could be used in a game.

The third part is the available tools, as you only can use, what's available. There are many tools , compatible with standard RMT or other trackers. But music , made in patched RMT, has a hard job to find a way into games and demos.


Put that three points in a triangle. Remove one of it , and the triangle is broken. Miss one of that points, and you will never get a triangle.

And the final problem is: People miss to want a triangle....

#20 gargoyle OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 6, 2017 4:18 PM

I think the low feedback is because people like to hear it on the real machine or Altirra and are dubious about the quality that comes from Youtube etc, as its compressing it there's loss, maybe not a lot but its enough to put me off and answers why so many requests for xex's :)

 

Speaking of quality, what is the frequency response range of Pokey audio?



#21 walter_J64bit ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 6, 2017 8:31 PM

Wait what no Imperial March? :evil: Awesome work Emkay! 



#22 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 7, 2017 10:59 AM

Speaking of quality, what is the frequency response range of Pokey audio?


What do you want to know exactly?

From a technical aspect, POKEY has more problems with low notes. Depending on the wave creation, high tones get louder due to the faster "load/de-load" signals.
Low tones get louder , if high notes get added.
High tones get far into non hearable ranges.
You have 3 base clockings.
15kHz is good for all over low sounds and some fat synths.
64kHz is the standard clocking. This is the most used clocking for POKEY tunes, officially able to play 3.5 Octaves.
Real high sounds haven't been used in regular tunes, because the notes get more off the clean notes.
And then there is the 1.79MHz clocking. Basically used for I/O functions, it offers a lot of usable sound for music creation.
The resulting sounds can get up to ~ 3.4MHz , which allows to create resulting waves, similar to OPL synthesises.

#23 gargoyle OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 7, 2017 1:14 PM

What do you want to know exactly?

From a technical aspect, POKEY has more problems with low notes. Depending on the wave creation, high tones get louder due to the faster "load/de-load" signals.
Low tones get louder , if high notes get added.
High tones get far into non hearable ranges.
You have 3 base clockings.
15kHz is good for all over low sounds and some fat synths.
64kHz is the standard clocking. This is the most used clocking for POKEY tunes, officially able to play 3.5 Octaves.
Real high sounds haven't been used in regular tunes, because the notes get more off the clean notes.
And then there is the 1.79MHz clocking. Basically used for I/O functions, it offers a lot of usable sound for music creation.
The resulting sounds can get up to ~ 3.4MHz , which allows to create resulting waves, similar to OPL synthesises.

 

Great thank you.



#24 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:17 PM

Nothing special...




But I had to make some changes at a song from the other thread, to get able to listen to it....

#25 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:37 AM

And some chippy-optimized version....



The indicator shows: just standard RMT programming.




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