New Colecovision Component Mod Kit

[the_crayon_king]

So I like to do all my own mods and there is no purchasable kit on the market so I will be making/selling them.

Will be adaptable to RGB as well.

The console I am modding atm is a "trash" console that gets teh vertical jailbars I do not believe these will show up on most consoles. \

The kit I am using is highly tweak-able so all of these issues will be in line soon enough. Just kinda stoked the kits I ordered work thought id share.

These kits will be usable for RGB, Component, S-Video, Composite amplification on MANY consoles.

 

Anywho this is what I got so far but the colors seem off:

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by the_crayon_king

[the_crayon_king]

So update I will draw up the circuitry needed in a few hours. I would suggest using a THS7374 (or another with ability to split lines so you can get composite or S-video out as well).

I have the kit more in line with what is needed but it still missing a few components namely a capacitor to ground on the R-Y and B-Y lines and corrected resistance/capacitance values.

The luma line just needs a higher resistance pulldown resistor 5.1M ohm The R-y and B-Y lines do not need AC biased.

I could also pull correct values from C66 and C67 instead of direct from the chip. C66 C67 and L9 may be where I install these long term I just have to find their locations.

 

What is missing from the above is this circuitry:

http://i.imgur.com/NL4iFCb.png

 

Example of future kit:

http://i.imgur.com/kWVfHpc.jpg

 

Only 5 connections needed on motherboard (not pictured is ground)

http://i.imgur.com/MKmQ3eq.jpg

 

Colors still not perfect but it actually wiped out the jailbars I was getting in the video out (something the S-video mod failed to fix:

Edited November 17, 2016 by the_crayon_king

[+evg2000]

will this work with the Expansion Modules #1, Atari adapter?

[the_crayon_king]

I wanna say the best video you could get out of the expansion module #1 is probably S-Video but id really need a schematic of the module in question to be sure.

[ApolloBoy]

I wanna say the best video you could get out of the expansion module #1 is probably S-Video but id really need a schematic of the module in question to be sure.

It should be theoretically possible to put a 2600RGB in the Expansion Module 1 but I'm not sure if it'd fit.

 

will this work with the Expansion Modules #1, Atari adapter?

No because this mod takes the video signals directly from the ColecoVision's VDP. The best the Expansion Module can output to the ColecoVision is composite video, and in order to get any better video you'd have to mod the EM with its own video output. Edited November 19, 2016 by ApolloBoy

[Ikrananka]

No because this mod takes the video signals directly from the ColecoVision's VDP. The best the Expansion Module can output to the ColecoVision is composite video, and in order to get any better video you'd have to mod the EM with its own video output.

 

The Expansion Module #1 uses a clone of the 2600 TIA chip and as such it has more or less the same video output signals. This means that in theory video mods for the 2600 should be compatible with the expansion module. I would love to try one of the RGB mods, but for now have successfully modded one of my modules with the 2600 s-video mod sold by Electronic Sentimentalities.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Ikrananka

[the_crayon_king]

I guess I should have specified that I meant you would probably have to mod the exp module also. For the money/effort I would just get a RGB modified Atari 2600.

For RGB out on the coleco you just need to feed the amped signals through a LMH1251 something like this:

https://easyeda.com/hotdog6394/Colecovision_RGB-cd4e2203065c489b9034298f7a4365d3

Very WIP and probably has alot of incorrect stuff atm. It only now has occurred to me to just use luma for sync and not bother with the lm1881 still if I made a board I would still have the option.

 

I am too busy atm to play around more for now. Anyway it looked like all the signals were compatible with my TV unamped #shrug. I would still use the amp to normalize the output but you could probably get away with some 220uf caps feeding the signals directly into the LMH1251 for RGB (or directly out to your TV for component). I just need the amp to split the signal so I can mix for composite/S-video as well.

 

Additional notes:

The video divider (in the linked schematic) would just be a THS7374 or a THS7360.

If you pull from the RF box make sure not to use the 12v power rail unless you are going to step it down with a 7805 id just pull 5v from someplace else.

C66 and C67 are under the RF modulator (I desoldered mine) you should be able to pull video off the top pins similar to the S-video mod and scratch off that one trace, id still wager that you would get better video with the RF removed. .

Edited November 20, 2016 by the_crayon_king

[the_crayon_king]

Yea so the Colecovision supposedly puts out 1.6-3.6v.

You wouldn't want to amp that voltage without dropping it first. So the THS is there for impedance matching and line driving.

 

This should be closer to a working item. My CRT tv can apparently handle TTL levels of video but a normal TV should be expecting 2 to 1.4v (I think) which is divided with a termination resistor to 1-0.7v. The circuit below works fine with my TV but any input would be appreciated.

Reference is this: http://i.imgur.com/04s73pE.png

1.4v (0.7v):http://tinyurl.com/zrvx542

2v (1v): http://tinyurl.com/js8ykjo

 

So input resistor somewhere between 3-6k (assuming the voltage levels are correct)

 

 

End game is a THS7314(or 7374) and a FMS6400 in one kit that should put out Component, S-Video, and A/V

Possibly still looking into using a LMH1251 for component to RGB conversion but I don't think the LMH1251 is meant to drive video.

Edited March 5, 2017 by the_crayon_king

[+H454]

What are you using for a sync sig in this pic:

https://i.imgur.com/kWVfHpc.jpg

Snyc on green?

 

I just got a colecovision - needs some fixing up and I'm really interested in this. I can't find a self install kit that's better than composite.

The 2600 and NES RGB mods make a huge difference and are pretty easy to install - would LOVE something for my new to me coleco.

I think their was a component kit that 5-11under made, I but I think that stopped production.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/143059-colecovision-component-video-mod/

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/151201-colecovision-component-video-mod-questions/

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/153635-component-video-mod-for-colecovision/?hl=%20colecovision%20%20component%20%20kit

 

I like to help to help If I can - I have Multiple RGB monitors If need you to some to help To test. 2 PVMs(one with TTL support), a Panasonic pro plasma and an xrgb3.

If you get to a workable prototype, I'd like buy one from you to test. Soldering isn't a problem(even surface mount).

My electronics experience is amateur but I'd like to help none the the less.

[the_crayon_king]

What are you using for a sync sig in this pic:

https://i.imgur.com/kWVfHpc.jpg

Snyc on green?

 

I just got a colecovision - needs some fixing up and I'm really interested in this. I can't find a self install kit that's better than composite.

The 2600 and NES RGB mods make a huge difference and are pretty easy to install - would LOVE something for my new to me coleco.

I think their was a component kit that 5-11under made, I but I think that stopped production.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/143059-colecovision-component-video-mod/

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/151201-colecovision-component-video-mod-questions/

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/153635-component-video-mod-for-colecovision/?hl=%20colecovision%20%20component%20%20kit

 

I like to help to help If I can - I have Multiple RGB monitors If need you to some to help To test. 2 PVMs(one with TTL support), a Panasonic pro plasma and an xrgb3.

If you get to a workable prototype, I'd like buy one from you to test. Soldering isn't a problem(even surface mount).

My electronics experience is amateur but I'd like to help none the the less.

 

I mean I can install S-Vid or composite right now using the older LM318 method. :https://easyeda.com/hotdog6394/Colecovision-ug93lDxP7

I think soon I will have three different kits in order to cut down price.

One FMS6400 based kit for Composite and S-Video; https://easyeda.com/hotdog6394/FMS6400_DRIVER-dff30ae2549c4a1e9cd29f9a2433937e

One for RGB and Component using the LMH1251 and THS7360: https://easyeda.com/hotdog6394/Colecovision_RGB-cd4e2203065c489b9034298f7a4365d3

One for Component and CV using the THS7340:

 

For RGB Sync may be an issue atm.

[the_crayon_king]

So from testing over this weekend I realized that most newer component supporting TVs don't support the resolution of the colecovision.

Also either the sync or the luma signal was too low running through those resistors and then the amp., probably get the same/better results just using a 75ohm output resistor on every line for component assuming you have a CRT.

 

Anyway at this point I think it would be more marketable to have an RGB only kit (since most of us collectors have some type of RGB scaler laying around)

so I am going to figure that part out and post results. The lmh1251 doesn't say specifically if it supports resolutions below 240p but I think it may work.

Shouldn't be hard to have RGB, S-Video, and AV with a THS7360

Edited March 12, 2017 by the_crayon_king

[ApolloBoy]

Anyway at this point I think it would be more marketable to have an RGB only kit (since most of us collectors have some type of RGB scaler laying around)

so I am going to figure that part out and post results. The lmh1251 doesn't say specifically if it supports resolutions below 240p but I think it may work.

Yeah I'd think you'd have a lot better luck (and a lot of interest) with an RGB board. Yurkie doesn't offer DIY kits for his RGB mod so having competition would be really nice.

[Ikrananka]

In case you're interested, I have added a new component video mod (by 5-11under) to my for sale items in the marketplace (link in my signature).

[Jinks]

Hmm this may fix colecos with bad rf modules if it only needs a good vdp?

[the_crayon_king]

Yeah I'd think you'd have a lot better luck (and a lot of interest) with an RGB board. Yurkie doesn't offer DIY kits for his RGB mod so having competition would be really nice.

I am curious if he just uses one of those crappy standalone component to HDMI things ?

 

In case you're interested, I have added a new component video mod (by 5-11under) to my for sale items in the marketplace (link in my signature).

I rather not buy someone's kit. I am trying to figure this out roughly on my own so there are no intellectual property issues.

 

Hmm this may fix colecos with bad rf modules if it only needs a good vdp?

I think it might yea.

 

 

Basically the LMH1251 seemed to be working sort of (for RGB) last time I tried this but the level of sync getting to it was too low.

I need to build a breadboard with swap-able parts so I can figure out the best setup.

I am moderately confident you can do the mod with the LMH1251 only, but it may be desirable to use additional components like the LM1881 and/or the THS7374.

 

This part of the circuit is what I need to figure out:

 

moar data:

http://i.imgur.com/1HlnwDE.jpg

 

[Y sync is [1.2v to 2v] needs to be 700mV p-p

PB/PR is [1.6v to 3.6v] needs to be ±350 mV (or 700mV p-p I think)

 

Now looking at the picture linked it shows the max/min outputs of the coleco; so it should be just a matter of dropping levels down to where the LMH1251 will accept them no ?

We need an EE to comment.

Edited April 16, 2017 by the_crayon_king

[the_crayon_king]

The Coleco has weird balancing issues on the lines. After deeper research this has been resolved before so it is possible. I believe the simplest solution is the SC-3000 design that is out there which is something like this: https://easyeda.com/hotdog6394/the_other_thing-421ae69ba2ae436f81427413895acad0, but that is way dated. I know Yurkie and 5-11 under have both made something before that dealt with this. Also of interest is this kit: https://hackaday.io/project/13056-tms9929a-rgb-and-component-adapter

 

There is a LT6207 schematic for converting Y R-Y B-Y to RGB : https://easyeda.com/hotdog6394/the_thing-ec8b660e6c4f4169aaa73cff7166e90d

 

If I did this that would be half the equation.

The other half would be putting everything in line with this info: http://www.smspower.org/forums/16515-TMS9929AVideoOutputLevels

 

 

Getting decent component out that will work on my CRT TV seems to be as simple as buffering with a THS731X amp but I just passed it right to my CRT as well and that worked too not that I would recommend doing that.

I have a test circuit with hot swapable parts that gave me decent component and decent S-Video but I didn't write any of it down yet. Noting that component is not correct through this method although is looks pretty good on my TV.

[xefned]

Definitely following this project. There seems to be no readily-available, user-installable RGB mod out there.

 

When you get a prototype working, I'll be a beta tester.

 

Good work!

[FABombjoy]

It’s not a kit, but Bally “Granny and the Gators” and “Baby Pac-Man” both use the TMS9928 on the Vidiot boards and have RGB transcoders spelled out in the schematics.

[the_crayon_king]

It’s not a kit, but Bally “Granny and the Gators” and “Baby Pac-Man” both use the TMS9928 on the Vidiot boards and have RGB transcoders spelled out in the schematics.

 

As far as I know the best "out there" non fpga solution is using the schematics shown in "SPPA004A_9928-29_9118-28_Interface_to_Monitors-5"

 

Schematics here (my version):

https://easyeda.com/hotdog6394/COLECO_RGB_VER_2-4e95b582a69e474c843a458a538d8c50

 

As a note thje quad analog switch has been replaced with a dual switch and the sync circuitry replaced with a LMH1980.

Also placed in the ADV725 for S-Video and Composite, I will remove the 3 potentiometers and replace with resistors.

 

What I do not know is how to effeciently split it so Component and RGB is available (at thee same time) while also spliting RGB to send to the ADV725, I thought about using a THS7360 since it is capable of driving two loads for each line. Not sure if what I put on wouuld work correctly.

 

THS7360 can drive 6 lines so top 3 component and bottom 3 RGB which would also go to the ADV725, May be a better video amp out there to do that part.

 

I will build and test this at some point in the next few months.

Edited January 19, 2018 by the_crayon_king

[Atari Nut]

On 11/17/2016 at 10:18 AM, the_crayon_king said:

So update I will draw up the circuitry needed in a few hours. I would suggest using a THS7374 (or another with ability to split lines so you can get composite or S-video out as well).

I have the kit more in line with what is needed but it still missing a few components namely a capacitor to ground on the R-Y and B-Y lines and corrected resistance/capacitance values.

The luma line just needs a higher resistance pulldown resistor 5.1M ohm The R-y and B-Y lines do not need AC biased.

I could also pull correct values from C66 and C67 instead of direct from the chip. C66 C67 and L9 may be where I install these long term I just have to find their locations.

 

What is missing from the above is this circuitry:

http://i.imgur.com/NL4iFCb.png

 

Example of future kit:

http://i.imgur.com/kWVfHpc.jpg

 

Only 5 connections needed on motherboard (not pictured is ground)

http://i.imgur.com/MKmQ3eq.jpg

 

Colors still not perfect but it actually wiped out the jailbars I was getting in the video out (something the S-video mod failed to fix:

http://i.imgur.com/SJfXwF6.jpg

I know this is an old post, but what are the lines that kind of form a "fingerprint" on this image?  Is this also a "jailbar" effect?  There is a Colecovision with a composite AV Mod where I see this effect in a picture taken off the CRT screen.  Is it just an artifact of taking pictures off a CRT?  I also see lines on the Skill Selection Screen in a picture taken off the CRT.

 

[the_crayon_king]

3 hours ago, Atari Nut said:

I know this is an old post, but what are the lines that kind of form a "fingerprint" on this image?  Is this also a "jailbar" effect?  There is a Colecovision with a composite AV Mod where I see this effect in a picture taken off the CRT screen.  Is it just an artifact of taking pictures off a CRT?  I also see lines on the Skill Selection Screen in a picture taken off the CRT.

 

It's not an artifact. I dunno if the jailbars are from the weird way colecovision offsets R-Y/B-Y (one of those two) or something to do with clock interference.

According to me from 2016 using Component video through a THS7360 (or THS7374 fixed this issue). So I guess the LPF on both of those was enough to wipe it out or otherwise reduce it?

 

Because I am a distractible person I haven't yet gotten around to making a true component/RGB kit (but I have recently started it up again).

 

[Falonn]

5 hours ago, Atari Nut said:

I know this is an old post, but what are the lines that kind of form a "fingerprint" on this image?

That's just the moiré pattern caused by the digital camera's pixel grid not being aligned perfectly with the TV's pixel grid.  That isn't something you'd actually see on the screen with your own eyes.

 

1 hour ago, the_crayon_king said:

Because I am a distractible person I haven't yet gotten around to making a true component/RGB kit (but I have recently started it up again).

We had good luck going to RGB a couple years ago.  This board (PDF schematic) starts from the TMS9928's R-Y/B-Y, gets converted to component/YPbPr, and then finally to RGB.  So, if you used that as a starting point, you'd mostly just have to remove things to get a component board.

 

At the time, I believe I actually stumbled on a few of your designs and was able to use a couple neat ideas you had for that board.  (I think I still have a shortcut to your EasyEDA profile page because you had a lot of cool stuff there.) 😃

Edited March 1, 2023 by Falonn

[Atari Nut]

47 minutes ago, Falonn said:

That's just the moiré pattern caused by the digital camera's pixel grid not being aligned perfectly with the TV's pixel grid.  That isn't something you'd actually see on the screen with your own eyes.

 

Thanks for explaining that.

[the_crayon_king]

On 3/1/2023 at 6:27 PM, Falonn said:

That's just the moiré pattern caused by the digital camera's pixel grid not being aligned perfectly with the TV's pixel grid.  That isn't something you'd actually see on the screen with your own eyes.

 

We had good luck going to RGB a couple years ago.  This board (PDF sc hematic) starts from the TMS9928's R-Y/B-Y, gets converted to component/YPbPr, and then finally to RGB.  So, if you used that as a starting point, you'd mostly just have to remove things to get a component board.

 

At the time, I believe I actually stumbled on a few of your designs and was able to use a couple neat ideas you had for that board.  (I think I still have a shortcut to your EasyEDA profile page because you had a lot of cool stuff there.) 😃

When doing S-Video or Composite mods on the Coleco I had the same type of jailbars but they were visible in about the same pattern as these. What I cannot remember is if the jailbars were on all channels or just luma. I do remember that filtering with the THS7374 seemed to help but I am stretching my memory here.

 

You are right about removing things to get component on the TMS-RGB. You could get the same results of what I wanna do using this in addition to the TMS-RGB. The reason I wanna make my own thing is to see if it will have any effect positive or negative in comparison to the RGB from the TMS, to get these additional outputs, and because I need a different circuit (not like the TMS-RGB's sample and hold) to get RGB on the Bally Astrocade (which has the same issues as the colecovision but on both the R-Y and B-Y lines.

I had also hoped that there were some TMS variants that would need both lines blanked instead of just the one.

 

The TMS-RGB could also get Component output by just adding a THS7314 (or THS7316/THS7374) right before the LMH1251.

 

I already had my basic idea working on the BALLY (with minor issues). However, because I started and stopped I kind of lost track of where I was on all that. I had a completed Coleco board/design ready to order and IDK where the design went.

 

I am glad any of those designs can be useful to you. A lot of those projects are/were WIP and not something to be used. I usually leave notes about them (if no notes assume the worst). EASYEDA makes you do a lot of crap just to share projects so I stopped doing it at some point.