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New Hardware Offering: Dual Right Angle XL/XE Cart Expansion


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#1 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:26 PM

A month or so ago there was a thread started about a right angle cartridge adapter that would fit the 130XE.  Some people were having problems with the 130XE's horizontal insertion design as opposed to the 800XL's vertical one for a host of reasons.   I joined the conversation with what I thought would help.  Not content with a single RA port, I worked with tf_hh to develop a dual RA cartridge port pcb.  We are now ready to offer this option to the AtariAge community. 
 
This pcb will allow you to keep up to two different cartridges inserted and switch between them.  It is not a SDX piggy back implementation.  That is in development.  This is a more simplified option for say two different game carts that you play often.  It cost less than other options, but understandably is more hands on than those options. 

 

I will also be providing a 3d model for printing.  This is a work in progress, but I plan to provide the abiltiy to insert all Atari 8bit compatible cartridges including the Atari brown spring loaded trapdoor cartridges.  It should be available by the shipping date.of the pcb.
 
Here's a 3d rendering of the finished product.  This will be very close to the finished pcb. :
 
radualcartext1.JPG
 
radualcartext2.JPG
 
I also have a few pics of the prototypes:
 
DSC_2254.jpg
 
 
DSC_2271.jpg
 
DSC_2272.jpg

I will be partnering with tf_hh in the production of the pcb for EU customers. This means cheaper shipping costs for those in the EU. I'm going to give Santos a break again this time. He's next up in 2017. :)

Okay for the details:

Cost per pcb: $25.00

Shipping for domestic flat rate will be $8.00 for a max of two pcbs.per order

Shipping for EU orders will also be $8.00 for a max of two pcbs per order

Timeline:

Ordering will go live Cyber Monday and last for two weeks.

Parts and board ordering and receipt will take up to three weeks.

Assembly and shipping should be done by Jan 20th or sooner.

As per previous offers ABBUC members will recieve a 10% discount. You must note on the order before submitting your membership #.

You may show your support or non support in this thread, but ordering will be done on my website. :)



#2 Umberto ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:34 PM

Slick



#3 Rybags OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:25 AM

By XL do you mean 1200XL or is there an alternate design on tap for the 600/800.

 

Also, there seems to be holes at the front but not back, wouldn't that be a handy thing so people could provide their own feet or standoffs or for mounting inside an enclosure?



#4 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:57 AM

The idea is good but the realisation is limited. Why not making pcb with two cart ports and xl style pbi on the backside of pcb?

I seriously see use for this but not without pbi.

Piggyback would be cooler too btw.

Not meaning to bash your project. Only expressing when I would be interested.

#5 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:48 AM

By XL do you mean 1200XL or is there an alternate design on tap for the 600/800.

 

Also, there seems to be holes at the front but not back, wouldn't that be a handy thing so people could provide their own feet or standoffs or for mounting inside an enclosure?

 

I'm also releasing a 1200XL cartridge extension in another post.  ;-)

 

As I indicated I am in the process of finishing a 3d printable case model especially designed for this pcb.  :)   Unfortunately, there's not really anyway to handle an infinite variety of feet or standoffs for enclosures.  Currently no existing Atari cartridge cases will fit either.   If you don't want to use or can't use the 3d printable case, then you will need to modify an enclosure.  It maybe possible to drill holes in the pcb in the upper corners.  Looking at the gerber files there appears to be no traces in the upper corners. 



#6 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:09 AM

The idea is good but the realisation is limited. Why not making pcb with two cart ports and xl style pbi on the backside of pcb?

I seriously see use for this but not without pbi.

Piggyback would be cooler too btw.

Not meaning to bash your project. Only expressing when I would be interested.

 

I understand your desires.  :)

 

In some ways this is limited.  Deliberately so.  With additions come complexity and increased cost.  Where do you stop?  What do you leave out?  What do you put in.  What is your goal?  Does it fit the most variety of machines?  Is it something that most will be willing AND able to buy?

 

I do have a SDX piggy back option in development and when I work out the details, I do intend to offer it, but it will cost more.  :( 

 

I am also in the initial stages of an ECI2PBI adapter that I hope will incorporate dual right angle cart slots.   But that will be released as part of my 1090XLR project and isn't planned for release until the middle of next year or later.  :)



#7 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:55 AM

Of course I can not speak for other people, but personally I only see use for two or three cart ports when they can be used simultaneously. 

I think of using SDX in a AtariMax or SIC cart (which do not have a cart port) and a language cartridge. Or a MyIDE 2 interface and a RT8 cartridge together.

 

The idea of leaving a cart in that is used a lot which can be switched off... well hmmm yes... but it's so easy to plug in/detach a cart, that I do not see any serious use for that.

 

But like I said, other people can think different.



#8 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:54 PM

Hello Lenore

 

Why "XL/XE" in the title?

 

a) This pcb will allow you to keep up to two different cartridges inserted and switch between them.  It is not a SDX piggy back implementation.  That is in development.  This is a more simplified option for say two different game carts that you play often.  It cost less than other options, but understandably is more hands on than those options. 

 

b) As per previous offers ABBUC members will recieve a 10% discount. You must note on the order before submitting your membership #.
 

 

 

Re "a)": Which one is the more simplified version?  The one we can order from Monday or the one in development?  Is the more complicated version like the simplified version, but with more options or are they two different things?

 

Re "b)": Could you explain that last sentence one more time.  My memory is missing a couple of refreshes every now and then.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#9 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:26 PM

Hello Lenore

 

Why "XL/XE" in the title?

 

 

 

Re "a)": Which one is the more simplified version?  The one we can order from Monday or the one in development?  Is the more complicated version like the simplified version, but with more options or are they two different things?

 

Re "b)": Could you explain that last sentence one more time.  My memory is missing a couple of refreshes every now and then.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 This pcb can be used on both the XL and XE lines.  With the 1200XL Cart Extension it can be used on the 1200XLs.  Now it might look a little strange in a 600/800XL, but it will work.  :)

 

  I was really referring to other multi-cart in 1 cart pcbs.  Primarily this is a simple dual cart switcher that uses a manual toggle switch to switch between the two inserted cartridges.  Only 1 cartridge is active at any one time. 

 

  I am in the process of creating a right angle SDX piggy back pcb.  It's primary purpose is to deal with the height/length issues when you try to stack three cartridges. ie SDX cart, RTIME8 and a third cartridge.  That starts getting a little unstable in a 600/800XL and the horizontal length becomes a problem when inserted into a 130XE.   But I am planning to implement the same option to switch between two piggyback cartridges manually. 

 

   Bad on me the last sentence should read  'You must note your membership # on the order before submitting.'
 


Edited by Dropcheck, Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:29 PM.


#10 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:57 PM

Hello Lenore

 

On that SDX piggy back PCB, would one still need to physically piggy back the cartridges?  If you are planning to build a new pcb with three cartridge ports, maybe you can decrease the length of the pcb by turning the connectors 90 degrees.  That way, the pcb gets wider but shorter.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#11 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:21 AM

Hello Lenore

 

On that SDX piggy back PCB, would one still need to physically piggy back the cartridges?  If you are planning to build a new pcb with three cartridge ports, maybe you can decrease the length of the pcb by turning the connectors 90 degrees.  That way, the pcb gets wider but shorter.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

 Hi Mathy,

 

      The physical shape should be something like this once I'm done.  :)   Very much like the current design, only with the SDX capabiltiy.  If I can get it done in the length/width restrictions to keep from interfering with other connections on the back of the 130XE.

                                   Cartt1            Cart2

                                    |||||                 ||||

   --------                       |||||                 ||||

              | ___________|||||__________||||_

130XE    |

  ---------


Edited by Dropcheck, Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:23 AM.


#12 ProWizard OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:52 AM

 

 

 Hi Mathy,

 

      The physical shape should be something like this once I'm done.  :)   Very much like the current design, only with the SDX capabiltiy.  If I can get it done in the length/width restrictions to keep from interfering with other connections on the back of the 130XE.

                                   Cartt1            Cart2

                                    |||||                 ||||

   --------                       |||||                 ||||

              | ___________|||||__________||||_

130XE    |

  ---------

 

I hope that the SDX capability is not limited to cart, but that it comes WITH pbi. What would I need all this for when I can not hook up my harddisk?



#13 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:46 AM

 

I hope that the SDX capability is not limited to cart, but that it comes WITH pbi. What would I need all this for when I can not hook up my harddisk?

 

  That option is not available at this time. I can understand your unwillingness to buy this item.  But stay with me,  I hope to have something for you next year.  :)



#14 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:36 AM

Update:

 

    Order window is now open.  :)



#15 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:12 PM

   Bad on me the last sentence should read  'You must note your membership # on the order before submitting.'
 

But I could not find a place to note membership # on the order before submitting AND got charged full cost.



#16 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:18 PM

But I could not find a place to note membership # on the order before submitting AND got charged full cost.

 

Yes there is a section on the billing/shipping screen about two thirds the way down on the right hand side that is labeled order notes.  This is where you need to enter the info.  It's been there for the last three years.  :)

 

As I've stated before in other offers, i have to confirm with Wolfgang that you are currently a member in good standing.  Once I have that confirmation and I am at the shipping point I will refund the discounted amount.  :)

 

Again if the minimum # of 10 isn't sold, I will refund all monies.   :) 



#17 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:27 PM

Hello Lenore

 

What's the difference between the version still in development and the one currently for sale if the last one would have the switch replaced with one that could switch between "cart 1 only", "both" and "cart 2 only"?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#18 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:58 AM

Hello Lenore

 

What's the difference between the version still in development and the one currently for sale if the last one would have the switch replaced with one that could switch between "cart 1 only", "both" and "cart 2 only"?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Hi Mathy,

 

After all the main idea was to shorten the horizontal length of stacked cartridges plugged into the 130XE and have the more traditional vertical cartridge insertion orientation and all as cheaply and as simply as possible. No complicated menus or dip switches etc.  Just one single toggle switch.   I also targeted the 600XL/800XL machines (1200XL with the cart extender pcb).  Here it's the vertical length of stacked cartridges

 

The current version now available is simply a manual switch between two different cart slots. Only 1 active at a time.  You can still use an SDX cart with a piggyback cart in slot 1, and a completely different cart in the slot 2.  Might get a little awkward on a XL machine, but...... hey.  :)

 

The one in development will have in it's base the SDX capabiltiy (cart 1) and the ability to switch manually between 2 other different carts (Cart 2 or 3) as the piggyback cartridge.   But by adding the SDX base, the cost of the project does nearly double. 

 

Now understand there is no 'both carts'.  Only one cart is ever going to be active at a time.  This is not a emulation situation.  As I understand it even on the SDX cart, it seeds control to the piggyback cartridge when it calls it.  Depending on that piggyback cartridge you may be able to drop back down into SDX or not.  And if not, you will have to reboot with whatever new setting you want to use. 

 

Now how much better that will be depends on the person.  It might not be all that much better for most people and if so the development will most likely end.    Once you exceed a cost level acceptable to most people for the gain, it's a dead project except for personal fulfillment.  :(



#19 brenski OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:56 AM

Lenore

 

the shipping seems to be adding up incorrectly

I'm in UK - Europe

and the total shipping for 1x XL/XE right-angled cart doubler and 1x 1200XL cart extender 

Flat Rate: $20.50



#20 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:07 AM

Lenore

 

the shipping seems to be adding up incorrectly

I'm in UK - Europe

and the total shipping for 1x XL/XE right-angled cart doubler and 1x 1200XL cart extender 

Flat Rate: $20.50

 

 

     Try it again.  Sorry.   :(



#21 brenski OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:22 AM

thanks

all done



#22 tf_hh OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:22 AM

The current version now available is simply a manual switch between two different cart slots. Only 1 active at a time.  You can still use an SDX cart with a piggyback cart in slot 1, and a completely different cart in the slot 2.

 

Just for clarification... it´s not really only a simple switch :) - This wouldn´t be secure for modern carts. A GAL16V8 is used, the switch only toggles one input of the GAL. The logic realizes complete invisibility for the cart which is not active. All cartridge controlling signals (RD4, RD5, S4, S5 and CCTL) are switched by logic. Output RD4 and RD5 is buffered using transistors. So it´s a safe thing.



#23 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 2, 2016 4:28 AM

Update:

 

    Near mid window update:

 

                   Currently 6 of 20 have been sold.

 

                   2 in the US

 

                    4 in the EU



#24 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 6:21 AM

     Update:

 

     Four more days.   :)

 

     9 of 20 sold

 

      4 in the EU

 

      5 in the US



#25 peteym5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 8, 2016 8:30 AM

I really like this concept being a 130XE owner and had issues with cartridges loosing connection being horizontal. Tramiel made the Atari 8-bit like a VIC-20 or Commodore 64.  My Basic XE cartridge has rubber feet on it to keep is connection steady. I assume you cannot use two cartridges at the same time because there would be tons on problems with mapping and trying to set up bank switching between two cartridges. I know there are many different bank switching schemes to the D5xx area.






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