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Calico - Jaguar Doom for PC

Jaguar Doom PC port Calico

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#1 Csonicgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:12 AM

Over in the Doom community, an effort is underway to port Jaguar Doom to the PC platform. Because, why not?

https://www.doomworl...s/91624-calico/

Screenshots:

3U8fej0.png

rggGfnl.png

 

However, some rendering issues have popped up as of late. Stuff like this.

If you are interested and want to see what is done so far, or are willing to help in any way, here is the Github repository: https://github.com/t...ity/calico-doom



#2 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:28 AM

A port of a port of a game?



#3 Stage_1_Boss OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:47 AM

Best of luck on your efforts of porting from the Jag to PC, but as a Jaguar collector, may I be added to the list for a clear cart version of the re-port of PC Jaguar Doom back to Jaguar? = )



#4 ls650 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:19 AM

Dafuq? Hmm, some folks have a lot of time on their hands I guess...

#5 Csonicgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:27 AM

A port of a port of a game?

 

Hmm, Maybe.
 

 

Best of luck on your efforts of porting from the Jag to PC, but as a Jaguar collector, may I be added to the list for a clear cart version of the re-port of PC Jaguar Doom back to Jaguar? = )

 

The idea is to understand how and what changed when John Carmack ported the engine over to consoles. There were a lot of changes to fit Doom into console environments. As the Jaguar Doom source has been used in 32X, 3DO, GBA, and PSX (maybe N64, Saturn and ?), it'd be useful to see how the code worked originally and what changed when that code was ported over to other platforms.

Heck it might even make that fabled "Genesis" port possible... So you'll need a lot more cartridges!


Edited by Csonicgo, Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:28 AM.


#6 Saturn OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:32 AM

Great stuff and very interesting. I'm anxious to see what develops and the possibility of a Genesis version is fun to explore.

Can never have enough DOOM :P



#7 travistouchdown OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:26 PM

Finally the PC will be getting a good port of Doom!



#8 82-T/A OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:28 PM

Best of luck on your efforts of porting from the Jag to PC, but as a Jaguar collector, may I be added to the list for a clear cart version of the re-port of PC Jaguar Doom back to Jaguar? = )

 

Hahahah... oh my God... the sad thing is, I'd probably buy it too.

 

No, I'd have to draw the line there...



#9 Csonicgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:56 PM

 

Hahahah... oh my God... the sad thing is, I'd probably buy it too.

 

No, I'd have to draw the line there...

 

That's one of the possibilities, to create doom mod carts - Maybe Jaguar Final Doom? That'd require a lot of the v1.6 PC code - the SSG is needed in that game.



#10 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:44 PM

Jag DOOM had more colors, and funky music between the levels. Nothing wrong with that!

#11 Trooper Galactus OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:16 AM

So, they're going to take a game made for the PC which was ported to the Jaguar and port it back to the PC?  People have too much time on their hands these days.



#12 Asaki OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:53 AM

Wow. This is not what I was expecting.

I ported just the level/texture WADs to PC a while back, I think they're kind of fun to play, just to spot all the differences.

#13 Csonicgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:33 AM

So, they're going to take a game made for the PC which was ported to the Jaguar and port it back to the PC?  People have too much time on their hands these days.

 

It's not just that, but that JagDoom was the basis of a lot of console ports. If we figure out Jaguar Doom, the rest should be a piece of cake.

 

As for modding, which is what is really what this is all about - All the texture formats, etc. are different, but as far as WADs and levels go it's the same as PC, aside from the fact that wad lumps can be compressed. Sir Juddington of Doomworld has created a cool called "SLADE" that opens, edits, and saves Jaguar maps. Here is a link to that: http://slade.mancubus.net/
 
John Carmack also released some dev tools a while back, I cannot find those at the moment. 

Edited by Csonicgo, Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:40 AM.


#14 Csonicgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:43 AM

Wow. This is not what I was expecting.

I ported just the level/texture WADs to PC a while back, I think they're kind of fun to play, just to spot all the differences.

In some of the prototypes, a lot of the levels haven't been edited yet - I think the 32X may have been the reason so many textures and geometry got the axe.

 

Speaking of levels, here's one that may have been for Jaguar Doom but was scrapped - It's unfinished, but it's interesting anyway: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Extramap.wad



#15 Asaki OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:17 AM

Sir Juddington of Doomworld has created a cool called "SLADE" that opens, edits, and saves Jaguar maps.


That would've made my life so much easier, I was using some old utilities from SVKaiser, most of which had to be dug up from dead links.

Here's my WAD, BTW. I probably should've made it a PWAD instead of an IWAD, but I was lazy and never got around to distributing it.

Attached Files



#16 Stage_1_Boss OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:54 PM

Man, I remember making DOOM maps back in the day on my PC, was fun.. kinda miss it lol

#17 masschamber OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 1, 2016 12:09 AM

Which ports of doom did John Carmack actually work on?  I remember reading an interview and he talked about both the 32x and jag ports, did he work on the ps1 or saturn ports? 



#18 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 1, 2016 12:13 AM

I really don't get why people port commercial versions of Doom with commercial levels and assets.  I suggested to the Genesis port developer to at least use community created levels.  No response.

 

After so many years of mods and total conversions you'd think making a community version would be a no brainer.



#19 omf OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 1, 2016 1:54 AM

would have been more beneficial to attempt to port heretic / hexen maps to the jaguar in my opinion that way there would have been new contant for the jag and not just add another version of doom that is retty much the same as the other versions of doom for the pc, however good luck in your venture and i hope you get it working



#20 Asaki OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 1, 2016 7:05 AM

Which ports of doom did John Carmack actually work on?  I remember reading an interview and he talked about both the 32x and jag ports, did he work on the ps1 or saturn ports?


AFAIK, he only worked on those two, but someone who's read Masters of DOOM might have a better answer.

#21 Csonicgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 1, 2016 12:22 PM

I really don't get why people port commercial versions of Doom with commercial levels and assets.  I suggested to the Genesis port developer to at least use community created levels.  No response.

 

After so many years of mods and total conversions you'd think making a community version would be a no brainer.

Because the community has tried that already. Freedoom is still actively being developed as a community-created Doom asset replacement. It has been plagued with leadership issues, illegal content, and arguments over what gets replaced and what stays.

For Calico Doom though, in the interest of authenticity (and correctness in loading assets period) It's using the Jag assets. I assume that it'll be able to load custom stuff later, as PC ports always do.



#22 QuasarEE OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 1, 2016 1:25 PM

Dafuq? Hmm, some folks have a lot of time on their hands I guess...

 

I wish. I've been grabbing time whenever I get it.

 

Which ports of doom did John Carmack actually work on?  I remember reading an interview and he talked about both the 32x and jag ports, did he work on the ps1 or saturn ports? 

 

Besides 32X and Jag which he wrote himself, he was also a major consultant on the PSX and N64 ports. Aaron Seeler has some old finger file posts about going to id Software to meet in person with JC to discuss the designs, and John is also credited in the PSX's manual for help with the rendering engine (Kaiser believes he was probably responsible for inventing the LEAFS lump that is used to draw floors and ceilings as quad strips - a similar approach was later used in Doom for iOS and in the engine used by Doom RPG and Orcs & Elves).

 

I really don't get why people port commercial versions of Doom with commercial levels and assets.  I suggested to the Genesis port developer to at least use community created levels.  No response.

 

After so many years of mods and total conversions you'd think making a community version would be a no brainer.

 

To be clear, assets are *not* included with my code. You're responsible for obtaining an image of Jaguar Doom legally if you want to use it. I don't have the skills or resources to develop a game with new assets on my own, nor do I have the time, as besides my personal projects I am also working on programming stuff for Night Dive Studios. John Carmack released the Jag code in hopes it would be useful; one use for that I see is to backport it to the PC so the unique version of Doom that ran on the Jaguar can be preserved and experienced independent of increasingly rare and costly discontinued hardware, or dependence on emulators that have varying accuracy.



#23 Csonicgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 1, 2016 4:05 PM

AFAIK, he only worked on those two, but someone who's read Masters of DOOM might have a better answer.

 

Which ports of doom did John Carmack actually work on?  I remember reading an interview and he talked about both the 32x and jag ports, did he work on the ps1 or saturn ports? 

 

Carmack gave the Jag code to a small dev team at Williams Electronics, who worked on the PS1 port, and Rage Software coded the Saturn port. The Saturn port was TERRIBLE. 
 

The main reason the Saturn port sucked, is the reason the Saturn sucked. Two Hitachi SH-2s both controlling two dual-core GPUs, which is all controlled by a Motorola 68K variant, which also controls the Yamaha YMF292 for FM synthesis... And don't forget the Hitachi SH-1 which handles  I/O  - and the two "SCU" co-processors for both SH-2s -- WHY?

Who makes a console like this? 

On top of that, it couldn't do perspective-correct texture mapping, so Carmack explicitly forbade a polygonal engine. And since the I/O is bottlenecked to hell because it's spread over two GPUs, the frame rate tanks.

The Saturn wasn't made for Doom, period. Doom is exclusively a cache-based, serial renderer. it cannot be multithreaded easily without losing the game state. The frame rate is locked with the game state. Devs were expected to multi-thread their games on the Saturn, when some games simply couldn't take advantage of that.

To give you an idea on how prohibitive the prospect of a multithreaded Doom renderer is, the Doom community itself only started making multithreaded renderers in 2008. It took an entire decade to get that far.



#24 Csonicgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 1, 2016 4:25 PM

 

John Carmack released the Jag code in hopes it would be useful; one use for that I see is to backport it to the PC so the unique version of Doom that ran on the Jaguar can be preserved and experienced independent of increasingly rare and costly discontinued hardware, or dependence on emulators that have varying accuracy.

I'm waiting for the guy who comes by and says "nah uh, there's 100 lots of jaguars in a vault in Venezuela somewhere." Yeah, how helpful that is. All that means is that there are 100 lots of jaguars that no one will ever play unless they know a guy. Also, enjoy your jaguar cut up to pieces because everything coming out of Venezuela is immediately flagged as suspect.

 cannot count how many new Atari games from Latin America were sliced open and roughhoused by customs because they had a stick up their collective butts and treated every package as if it contained 50 kilos of the good stuff.

I know that was a tangent, Quasar,  I'm just defusing the one or two people I know on this forum that love to challenge someone's idea of "rarity". Not on my watch.


Edited by Csonicgo, Thu Dec 1, 2016 4:31 PM.


#25 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 2, 2016 4:51 PM

Because the community has tried that already. Freedoom is still actively being developed as a community-created Doom asset replacement. It has been plagued with leadership issues, illegal content, and arguments over what gets replaced and what stays.

For Calico Doom though, in the interest of authenticity (and correctness in loading assets period) It's using the Jag assets. I assume that it'll be able to load custom stuff later, as PC ports always do.

 

I always wondered about that.  I appreciate the insightful answer.  Thank you for not taking my comment as something negative about your work :)







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