Jump to content
IGNORED

CRT Sets


NinjaWarrior

Recommended Posts

All I hear now a days are people want HDMI modded NES's, Upscale this, F** that

 

I just plain don't like playing on a HDTV, Input Lag..Older Systems like the NES, 2600, 7800 and under wasn't ment to be played on a HDTV framemister or not

 

When I moved to West Sacramento, I tried to play my Genesis, SNES or my Small Proscan TV, I just couldn't a sec lag though me off

 

I got a Free 19' Symphonic TV, RF & Composite only, AV doesn't work, So RF...at lease I have a CRT to play...

 

So people complaining they don't have room, Get one...Show your kids what Gaming is all about, on a CRT

Edited by NinjaWarrior
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cool! Another CRT vs LCD, Real vs Emulation thread. I love it!

 

We all know the best way to play is synthesize the image on hardware designed for the display you are using. This means it could be real vintage equipment on a real vintage CRT. Or it could mean modern day emulation outputting native digital signals over HDMI to a 4K TV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just plain don't like playing on a HDTV, Input Lag..Older Systems like the NES, 2600, 7800 and under wasn't ment to be played on a HDTV framemister or not.

That's right they weren't. And the way around that is to play the cartridges' contents entirely in the digital domain. Play on quality modern day hardware designed to interface with a dot-addressable display.

 

People trying to stuff analog signals into a dot-addressable display are fighting a losing battle that's full of frustration and mediocre results. Mindlessly forcing a square peg into a round hole gets real old real fast.

 

And Framemeister only looks good because it is compared to the crap it was purchased to eliminate.

 

As retrogaming continues to evolve and gain traction, these problems are forced into the limelight even more!

Edited by Keatah
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was me not too long ago. I eventually got tired of worrying about the cost of a framemeister and modded systems. While I actually like the sharp pixel look of upscaled retro games, there is still the issues of lag and no light gun support. I should add that I am only referring to 2D sprite games where I like the sharp pixel look. Early 3D stuff looks like vomit. Long story short, I am now a CRT believer.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

and my point is you don't need to suffer for your hobby.

 

Like folks who are into classic cars, but don't want to deal with points and carbs. They'll fit a modern electronic ignition with fuel injection. Modern alternator and upgraded brakes and AC compressor... etc.. etc.. even though the car wasn't "meant" to have these things when they were built.

 

Same thing with classic game consoles. A lot of folks don't want to be limited by screen size, and would like to use their old consoles on their new TVs. Which is why upscalers and mods are in high demand.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you ordering your games through paper catalogs and in store only? They certainly weren't "meant" to be sold online either.

 

This cracks me up, like hipsters who insist on only listening to music on Vinyl, yet they buy it through Amazon. :lolblue:

 

I wanna go buy my emulators at Compu-Shop and Computerland. Somebody please make this happen!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and my point is you don't need to suffer for your hobby.

 

Like folks who are into classic cars, but don't want to deal with points and carbs. They'll fit a modern electronic ignition with fuel injection. Modern alternator and upgraded brakes and AC compressor... etc.. etc.. even though the car wasn't "meant" to have these things when they were built.

 

But would've used that equipment were it available then. And hence we create signals in the digital domain to satisfy modern displays.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you ordering your games through paper catalogs and in store only? They certainly weren't "meant" to be sold online either.

 

This cracks me up, like hipsters who insist on only listening to music on Vinyl, yet they buy it through Amazon. icon_laughingblue.gif

 

You are using "meant" differently than Ninja Warrior is. He is using "meant" in the sense of displays they were designed for as in pre-HDTV content is designed for pre-HDTV displays. New distribution methods like online shopping still provide the same results as old methods like paper catalogs by getting the games in your house because the packaging was "meant" or designed for shipping to store shelves and/or houses regardless of the method used. But rather a game is being played on a CRT or an HDTV has different results on what is "meant" to/designed to be displayed. To use a reversed example, the PS4 is not meant to be played on a 1978 Sony Trinitron. In other words, you are using "meant" only in the sense of what was available at the time instead of in the sense of what the games were designed for which is falsely representing Ninja Warrior's reasons for a CRT preference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

What I gather from Ninja Warrior's post is that dealing with having to mod systems, use a Framemister, deal with lag, etc. he views as cons that makes him suffer for his hobby more than the cons of dealing with a CRT.

 

Sure, the dude makes fair points, but he also comes off as an elitist as if CRTs are the one and only way. I'm getting tired of reading this kind of banter on these forums, as the only thing it propagates is a close-minded mentality. Going around the internet and shitting on other options that happen to work for others is simply bad taste, and in his case ignorant (he clearly demonstrates that he hasn't used other options beyond plugging directly into the HD TV, so what would he know? It doesn't sound like he's ever touched a Framemeister or experienced it's perceived "lag").

 

I'm all about using what works best for you, and not giving people a hard time because they use what works best for them.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like to have the best picture quality possible, so I'm all for modding the consoles for RGB or s-video. I try to avoid composite, unless the console/computer already has an output for it and the quality is good. I've seen pictures of consoles modded like that and connected to digital TVs (with and without a dedicated upscaler like the framemeister) obtaining a picture almost indistinguishable from an emulator output without filters enabled. I find that totally awful, and I'd rather not play the games anymore if that would be the only possible way.

The CRT look is (an important) part of the gaming experience, in my opinion. I like the glow of the phosphors and the persistance of them that make bright objects leave a faint trail behind them while moving on a dark background. I like to see the thin scanlines and the shadow mask or aperture grille that give texture to the low resolution image. And I like that pixels are not a bunch of square flat tiles, but instead bright spot of light without a perfectly defined edge (which doesn't mean the image is blurry: with a quality video signal like s-video or rgb every single pixel is perfectly visible. The crisp edges are an artifact of the digital display which was never there in the first place).
Lag and lightgun support are additional issues that have been already mentioned.

I only play old consoles on CRTs (and living in Europe, where basically every TV sold since the '80s has RGB input, surely helps) and I also have a PC connected to the large 50" LCD in the living room, where I can play the games through emulation using adapters for original controllers. With the PC set to the same native resolution as the TV and crt filters enabled I can enjoy the games on a big screen without most of the drawbacks of using a real console with it. A modern PC can generate the display and apply filters in a fraction of the time needed by real hardware to output a frame, while an upscaler has to wait that the entire frame is outputted by the console, then convert it to digital, then apply filters and it surely doesn't have the CPU power of a PC.

So, it's not that I use CRTs because I'm a "elitist" (whatever that means), but because digital displays really detract from my enjoyment in playing old games.
Emulation is a compromise I find somewhat acceptable if I really want to play on a big screen, but I consider real hardware connected to digital TV (with or without external upscaler) an unacceptable compromise, so upscalers or HDMI mod are totally worthless to me.

Edited by alex_79
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, it's not that I use CRTs because I'm a "elitist" (whatever that means)

 

elitist

[ih-lee-tist]

 

Adjective

1. (of a person or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society:

elitist country clubbers who have theirs and don't care about anybody else.

2. catering to or associated with an elitist class, its ideologies, or its institutions:

Even at such a small, private college, Latin and Greek are under attack as too elitist.

 

Noun

3. a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society:

He lost a congressional race in Texas by being smeared as an Eastern elitist.

4. a person who believes in the superiority of an elitist class.

 

Yay, Dictionary.com.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think crt tv's are the best for old school games the problem is they are heavy. I used to have a 27 inch flat screen Sony trinitron and it felt like it weighed more than i did. I am surprised the TV stand didn't brake from all the weight.

 

That seems like a very minor problem because it only applies in the very limited amount of times you move one. There is also a positive to that. If someone breaks into your house they will also see it being heavy as a reason not to steal it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

You are using "meant" differently than Ninja Warrior is. He is using "meant" in the sense of displays they were designed for as in pre-HDTV content is designed for pre-HDTV displays. New distribution methods like online shopping still provide the same results as old methods like paper catalogs by getting the games in your house because the packaging was "meant" or designed for shipping to store shelves and/or houses regardless of the method used. But rather a game is being played on a CRT or an HDTV has different results on what is "meant" to/designed to be displayed. To use a reversed example, the PS4 is not meant to be played on a 1978 Sony Trinitron. In other words, you are using "meant" only in the sense of what was available at the time instead of in the sense of what the games were designed for which is falsely representing Ninja Warrior's reasons for a CRT preference.

 

Nah uh, see if you're going to preach to me about the "true" vintage experience you better be prepared to go all in. You need to be hitting the pavement for rummage sales and traveling to used game stores like it's 1992.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

That seems like a very minor problem because it only applies in the very limited amount of times you move one. There is also a positive to that. If someone breaks into your house they will also see it being heavy as a reason not to steal it.

 

As someone that owns a lot of heavy things (including CRTs.. and pinball machines), I'd like to think they would avoid said-heavy things. However, I've also witnessed experienced individuals moving said-heavy things, and they make moving the heaviest items look effortless, even down stairs. I guess the point is, I wouldn't put it past them.

 

Then again, maybe they wouldn't take a CRT nowadays since they would hopefully be up with the times and be aware that they aren't worth anything (and thus not worth the trouble). Better to focus on the lighter, more valuable items, like that modern 4K TV in the main room.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Sure, the dude makes fair points, but he also comes off as an elitist as if CRTs are the one and only way. I'm getting tired of reading this kind of banter on these forums, as the only thing it propagates is a close-minded mentality. Going around the internet and shitting on other options that happen to work for others is simply bad taste, and in his case ignorant (he clearly demonstrates that he hasn't used other options beyond plugging directly into the HD TV, so what would he know? It doesn't sound like he's ever touched a Framemeister or experienced it's perceived "lag").

 

I'm all about using what works best for you, and not giving people a hard time because they use what works best for them.

 

I think people can come off as elitist from either side of the argument. For an example, some that argue for HDTV don't just support mods, scalers, etc. for their preference or for preparation for the inevitable of CRT's eventually not even being an option but they also come off as if they consider the preference for CRT's as inferior because people should already switch before that inevitability of no more CRT's. It is a similar thing with emulation vs. original hardware arguments. Some that argue for emulation don't just support it as a preference or for preparation for the inevitability of original hardware not even being an option but they also come off as if they consider the preference for original hardware as inferior because people should already switch before that inevitability of no more original hardware. In other words, on both sides with these kind of arguments people can come off as elitist with their preferences when they think their preference is the only reasonable option. However, unless the person has both preferences in a mixture like CRT for retro consoles and HDTV for modern consoles or original hardware in some cases and emulation in others then it can be hard to tell if they are being elitist or just have their preferences in an unmixed extreme one way or the other.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Nah uh, see if you're going to preach to me about the "true" vintage experience you better be prepared to go all in. You need to be hitting the pavement for rummage sales and traveling to used game stores like it's 1992.

 

His word was "meant" and not "true vintage experience". Meant is talking about what something is designed for, intended for, etc. Since retro consoles were designed for CRT's and to get them to work well on HDTV's requires a/v mods, scalers, etc. then they were meant for CRT's. In other words, he was talking about the actual benefits of retro consoles running on the displays they were designed for instead of something along the lines of,"We used CRT's back in the day and therefore for that reason alone we should still use them today."

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

As someone that owns a lot of heavy things (including CRTs.. and pinball machines), I'd like to think they would avoid said-heavy things. However, I've also witnessed experienced individuals moving said-heavy things, and they make moving the heaviest items look effortless, even down stairs. I guess the point is, I wouldn't put it past them.

 

Then again, maybe they wouldn't take a CRT nowadays since they would hopefully be up with the times and be aware that they aren't worth anything (and thus not worth the trouble). Better to focus on the lighter, more valuable items, like that modern 4K TV in the main room.

 

Exactly. They are more likely to steal your more valuable and lighter 4K TV than a worthless and heavy CRT. Therefore, those heavy but worthless attributes of CRT's can be pros and not just cons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't get why people bother going through all the cost and effort of modding/upscalers/etc. just to get their consoles to look like emulators.

 

Would be a heck of a lot cheaper to just skip all of that and go with emulation/VC/etc., especially since there would be much, much less input lag.

 

Maybe that's just me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think people can come off as elitist from either side of the argument. For an example, some that argue for HDTV don't just support mods, scalers, etc. for their preference or for preparation for the inevitable of CRT's eventually not even being an option but they also come off as if they consider the preference for CRT's as inferior because people should already switch before that inevitability of no more CRT's. It is a similar thing with emulation vs. original hardware arguments. Some that argue for emulation don't just support it as a preference or for preparation for the inevitability of original hardware not even being an option but they also come off as if they consider the preference for original hardware as inferior because people should already switch before that inevitability of no more original hardware. In other words, on both sides with these kind of arguments people can come off as elitist with their preferences when they think their preference is the only reasonable option. However, unless the person has both preferences in a mixture like CRT for retro consoles and HDTV for modern consoles or original hardware in some cases and emulation in others then it can be hard to tell if they are being elitist or just have their preferences in an unmixed extreme one way or the other.

 

I totally agree, it's not just one side of the camp that can come off as elitist. I also don't feel that having a preference makes one elitist. It's when that personal preference causes you to look down on others' choices rather than attempting to have some sort of understanding as to why they opt for what they do, is when it can become an issue. I guess many of us are guilty of that on this forum to some extent, but it seems to rear its ugly head the most in the CRT vs HD TV/Upscaler topics and it's getting old.

 

I just don't get why people bother going through all the cost and effort of modding/upscalers/etc. just to get their consoles to look like emulators.

 

Would be a heck of a lot cheaper to just skip all of that and go with emulation/VC/etc., especially since there would be much, much less input lag.

For some people it's not about getting emulation-quality visuals as much as it is having your existing consoles function properly on a modern HD television. Just because you have a nice upscaler doesn't mean you are going to have to mod everything out the wazoo. They do take standard analog inputs, from composite, to S-Video and component. Even composite through the upscaler fed to your TV will look lightyears above composite pushed straight to the TV--that's how much these things can clean up the signal. As far as input lag is concerned, there is generally less input lag with a *high quality* upscaler than with emulation, with the lag through something like the Framemeister negligible at best. I can still speedrun Ninja Gaiden or tear through Battletoads without issue. On emulation (or something like the Wii U VC), that'll never happen.

 

Not necessarily trying be awesome at your games? That's great, feel free to use emulation. It's whatever works best for you. Likewise with CRT usage, if you just want to play on those, then go for it.

 

There are lots of other reasons to invest in a high-end upscaler, but it's a topic that's been beaten to death and I don't think we really need to be going down that path again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...