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New Hardware: Atari 400/800 Super Color CPU Card

CVBS S-Video Mod Atari 400 Atari 800

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#101 Stephen ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 6, 2017 9:29 AM

I noticed last night that I am not getting SIO sound through the monitor port now.  I have the brown wire going to pokey input on the card.  I notice that the white & black are twisted together per the instructions for the 800.  Wouldn't this tie the SIO line to ground and not let audio pass?



#102 tf_hh OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 6, 2017 9:47 AM

I noticed last night that I am not getting SIO sound through the monitor port now.  I have the brown wire going to pokey input on the card.  I notice that the white & black are twisted together per the instructions for the 800.  Wouldn't this tie the SIO line to ground and not let audio pass?

 

No... the reason why I change the connection for the 800 are totally different volume settings and, most important, without changing the 800 mainboard part´s there´s no way to get a clean and not by pokey sound influenced audio signal from the SIO port. So I decide to grab the combined audio signal when using an Atari 800. The SIO sound is much quieter than pokey sound, so sometimes (I test it with german "EUROPA" tape games, they play music on the right channel during loading the game...) you´ve to pump up the volume more than usually.

 

If anybody has a better idea where to grab the audio signals without changing things in the 800 mainboard... I´m open for suggestions :)



#103 Stephen ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 6, 2017 10:49 AM

 

No... the reason why I change the connection for the 800 are totally different volume settings and, most important, without changing the 800 mainboard part´s there´s no way to get a clean and not by pokey sound influenced audio signal from the SIO port. So I decide to grab the combined audio signal when using an Atari 800. The SIO sound is much quieter than pokey sound, so sometimes (I test it with german "EUROPA" tape games, they play music on the right channel during loading the game...) you´ve to pump up the volume more than usually.

 

If anybody has a better idea where to grab the audio signals without changing things in the 800 mainboard... I´m open for suggestions :)

Hmm - perhaps I had a batch file run that turned off SIO noise and I wasn't aware.  What I meant, was there were no "loading beeps" when loading from SIO.  I'll re-test later this evening.  I have to pull machine apart to tweak the colour pot again.

 

Yeah - my fault.  Sorry about that.  I was running an SDX config which turned off SIO noises.



#104 tf_hh OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 6, 2017 12:47 PM

Hmm - perhaps I had a batch file run that turned off SIO noise and I wasn't aware.  What I meant, was there were no "loading beeps" when loading from SIO.  I'll re-test later this evening.  I have to pull machine apart to tweak the colour pot again.

Yeah - my fault.  Sorry about that.  I was running an SDX config which turned off SIO noises.

 

:D - Well, I know this things good... Searching sometimes for hours any issue, tearing one´s hair... and finally any simple reason :)

 

When I finish the last prototype of the SCCC, I always test only with PAL. All was fine. First prototype also were tested with NTSC, but PAL needs more parts, so if PAL works, NTSC must be work, so I test only with one machine...

 

... but ...

 

In the final version I delete (without intent) the 100 nF cap between the output of the color pot and ground in the Eagle schematics editor without noticing it. This has no effect to PAL, but using NTSC... the color´s are totally weird and shifted and crappy. I´ve searched over 2 weeks (ok, not every day many hours) this issue. Sent the schematics to some friends, nobody found the reason. I was nearly giving up... then, I looked to the 800 field service manual, maybe the 200th times, and saw it... THE CAP. Solder it in, test it with NTSC, superb picture. The stone fallen from my heart was heard in Munich - 900 km away :grin:



#105 BillC OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 6, 2017 6:54 PM

 

No... the reason why I change the connection for the 800 are totally different volume settings and, most important, without changing the 800 mainboard part´s there´s no way to get a clean and not by pokey sound influenced audio signal from the SIO port. So I decide to grab the combined audio signal when using an Atari 800. The SIO sound is much quieter than pokey sound, so sometimes (I test it with german "EUROPA" tape games, they play music on the right channel during loading the game...) you´ve to pump up the volume more than usually.

 

If anybody has a better idea where to grab the audio signals without changing things in the 800 mainboard... I´m open for suggestions :)

I see from post #23 that you are getting audio from "junction R167/C181 Atari 800 mainboard".

 

If the Sobola schematic I have modified below to show signal routing is correct you are connecting to the wrong side of R167 to get proper combined SIO/POKEY audio, the POKEY audio signal isn't being reduced by R167 and the SIO audio signal is. If you want the combined signal after it's amplified by A104 you should connect at R194.

800_audio.jpeg


Edited by BillC, Wed Sep 6, 2017 6:56 PM.


#106 tf_hh OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 7, 2017 5:28 AM

I see from post #23 that you are getting audio from "junction R167/C181 Atari 800 mainboard".

 

Thanks, but this was not final - in the final manual (see post #072) I recommend to use the lower side of R193 to grab the combined signal. During my tests I found this place as the best point.

 

Jurgen



#107 BillC OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 7, 2017 2:28 PM

 

Thanks, but this was not final - in the final manual (see post #072) I recommend to use the lower side of R193 to grab the combined signal. During my tests I found this place as the best point.

 

Jurgen

OK, the only difference between there and R194 is C179 which would remove any DC offset of the audio signal at the transistor.



#108 tf_hh OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 8, 2017 3:36 AM

OK, the only difference between there and R194 is C179 which would remove any DC offset of the audio signal at the transistor.

 

Yes, and so I include the needed cap on the SCCC. Maybe a better solution is possible, but the time I were creating it I didn´t see one.



#109 tf_hh OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:10 PM

Hi folks,

 

I´ve asked some weeks ago if the SCCC could be able to enable both TV systems - NTSC and PAL. So I did some tests and found a way to bringing both worlds together. Of course you need two ANTICs and two GTIAs.

 

The new SCCC - whenever it will be ready - will also have both system clock crystals on it, so you really must not change any components on the Atari 400 or 800 mainboard.

 

My question to you all is... is there any need for a cross-norm usage? PAL ANTIC with NTSC GTIA and vice versa? IMHO this should not needed, if you can switch from PAL to NTSC and back using a simple reset. Any comments welcome.

 

Best regards, Jurgen



#110 8Bitjunkie OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:18 PM

I do not think that i would use this cross norm,,,

however, i really LOVE the idea to switch between PAL & NTSC in general...
One for me, please :-)



#111 slx OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:39 PM

I am interested in a unit and don't think cross-mode is required. But doesn't that require an OS switcher, too?

I thought 400/800 OS is 'hard coded' for PAL/NTSC?




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#112 tf_hh OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:51 AM

I am interested in a unit and don't think cross-mode is required. But doesn't that require an OS switcher, too?
I thought 400/800 OS is 'hard coded' for PAL/NTSC?

 

In Theory - yes. In a pratice way - no. Because OS B (NTSC) has a lot of bug fixes in relation to OS A (PAL), it´s better to use OS B for both. When using OS B at a PAL machine, only the key repeat is a little bit faster than usual and the tape baud rate. Both things can be ignored.

 

For 800 uses with Incognito this wouldn´t a challenge, also for 400er with my RAM card not. Users with an Atari 800 without Incognito should use stay at OS B for all systems. Otherwise a new personality card PCB ius necessary. If there´s enough demand, I can make such a thing. But first I will see if there´s interest in such solutions anyway.



#113 mutterminder OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:35 AM

I would definitely be interested in your new card, one of my 800's would be very happy to have this card. Please put me down for one.



#114 remowilliams OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:43 AM

An easily switchable full PAL/NTSC card sounds amazing, definitely would want one.

 

I've tried the simple Antic dropin on the XLs, but black and white PAL video isn't exactly what I'm looking for...



#115 Mulbin OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:46 AM

Just finished my install of this and the memory upgrade.

 

400 is now happily running Mercenary, Escape for Targ with a beautiful sharp image!

 

These were a must have for me as I really wanted (most of) the capabilities of an 800, but really love the design of the 400.



#116 slx OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:31 PM

Just finished my 400 conversion. SCCC had been installed for quite some time but today I finally got around to adding the 48/52K RAM card and - even more important - changed the system crystal and ANTIC/GTIA on the SCCC. My heartbeat quickened a bit when I got lots of garbage on the screen but then I remembered there is a PAL/NTSC jumper on SCCC.

 

Thanks for a great product!

 

If feature requests for the ultimate CPU card are still possible, it would be great if it could accomodate a 65C816 as 65C802's seem to be impossible to obtain. 



#117 adam242 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:42 PM

Hi folks,

 

I´ve asked some weeks ago if the SCCC could be able to enable both TV systems - NTSC and PAL. So I did some tests and found a way to bringing both worlds together. Of course you need two ANTICs and two GTIAs.

 

The new SCCC - whenever it will be ready - will also have both system clock crystals on it, so you really must not change any components on the Atari 400 or 800 mainboard.

 

Oh, HELL YES!

 

I am so interested in one of these for my Incognito 800! One Atari 8-bit to rule them all!

 

A long-time dream of mine. I will be first in line when the pre-order thread appears.


Edited by adam242, Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:47 PM.


#118 tf_hh OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:43 AM

 

Oh, HELL YES!

I am so interested in one of these for my Incognito 800! One Atari 8-bit to rule them all!

A long-time dream of mine. I will be first in line when the pre-order thread appears.

 

;-)

 

Actually I haven´t really much news. I haven´t ordered a prototype version yet, because I want to include some other features and make it usable without the need of any switches. Using an Atari 800 this is more easy than using an Atari 400.

 

A little bit success is already done: I found a company who has produced 500 pieces for me of the very special 14,157 MHz crystal needed for PAL. These 500 pieces arrived me a few days ago, I tested one of them in a XE system, it works fine. For NTSC the needed 14,318 MHz crystal is standard offered at every electronic store.

 

It was also my idea to support the 65C816 CPU. But I haven´t any experiences myself about that, so I need help here.

 

Jurgen







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