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Road Rash pre-alpha on Jaguar at 30 fps

Road Rash GPU 30 fps

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#701 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:44 PM

"Why" are you putting Atari Lynx and Mario Kart "in" scare quotes? Do you not consider those their real names?



#702 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:39 PM

So let me get this straight, if you take too long to show a progress update on something

You clowns get mad?

If you release too much stuff too quickly....

You clowns get mad.....

May we find that Goldilocks zone to make everyone happy.

His project.

His time.

He will update you when he has an update to show.

Technically, they can't "get mad". The recent research has shown time&again on FMRI scans, that their brain is simply uncapable of that emotion (those regions don't light up even when they fake it) - they can, however, extremely well, completely effortlessly, fake the emotion in real-life to fool other people. It's simply how their brain is -literally- wired. On internet, it's obviously even easier to fake emotions.

 

Ok so here is the thing. Vladr you shouldn't be bragging and bosting without ACTUALLY showing working stuff. The bragging isnt necessary. In the end it just creates more drama for you. You know the buzzards are gonna swarm your ass, why feed them?

But there really is no drama for me - not anymore (like in past) - I've simply done a lot of work on my own personal life journey (studying psychology has completely changed the way I view -and finally understand- people now). I'm sure you noticed that I simply don't react to quite a few of those jokers, because quite frankly, their bitching doesn't bother me in any way anymore - though truth be told, I do often find it highly amusing to see how they're repeatedly trying the same techniques (again and again) yet are unable to provoke a reaction .

 

 I know life gets in the way of this shit it is just a hobby afterall.

I believe you're forgetting, I'm burning through about $3k per month on living expenses to do this, so I don't think that qualifies as hobby anymore - well, perhaps a very expensive hobby :lol:

 

 Where is the motivation to keep going?

My personal motivation is very humble - I want:

- the most complex gameplay (e.g. the recent RPG features)

- the most smooth framerate (e.g. 30-60 fps)

- the most advanced flatshading 3D engine (e.g. HiRes + HiPoly)

- the largest game world possible (e.g. 500 levels)

 

And all of that done By a Single person as his first Jaguar game, because I can release my First Jaguar Game only once in my life. I gave this a lot of thought last year and this is my position. Whatever it costs - and at $3k/month it ain't cheap  :)

 

 

He doesn't owe anyone anything.

He isn't under a contract to get this thing done.

Which is exactly the reason why I'm postponing the pre-orders constantly. If I took other people's money, I wouldn't have the luxury to discard 1-6 months worth of work and redo the particular component, just because I recently upgraded the framework to suddenly allow for a more complex artistic vision.

 

 I have offered to help with this project but Vladr prefers to do it alone. That is HIS decision because its his game. Whatever it may turn out to be.

And I appreciate the offer very much, as I said in past. Let me get this out of my system, and then we can talk cooperation on my next games ;)

I'm pretty sure, given your current level of experience on jag, I could be working on one game myself, and you, in parallel, could be working on another, using my 3D engine and framework, as long as you're OK with 68000 assembler - though I wouldn't expect you to write a lot of low-level Asm code, merely call the necessary functions (e.g. for menu, input, loading, etc.) for the game framework, and just configuring and tweaking the dozens of parameters.

 

I'm pretty sure, with the abstraction (and macros) I got working recently, you wouldn't even have to touch  GPU asm, just handle the Boolean flags for the 68000 code and some high-level 68000 code.

 

Perhaps him doing coding on something else is helping him in some way and will enhance this project in the long run.

I've addressed this multiple times, and if it was them, I couldn't really be bothered to respond, but in short - I truly love Atari 800 XL and want to push technological boundaries also there (technically, I already did, it's just not for public consumption - not yet anyway - I am currently tinkering with idea of doing some 6502 demo for a convention - I'm thinking PGRE ?).

Also, as I said several times, 6502 research feeds the Jaguar research and vice versa. Many times, I wouldn't have come up with certain jag ideas, if I wasn't working on 6502 code (and vice versa).

 

 And everyone else leave the man alone. He will update us when he has something to show.

I truly appreciate you coming out like this, in my defense, and exposing yourself to the wolves, I just don't want you to get caught and suffer in the cross-fire, but -FWIW- thank you ;)



#703 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:02 PM

 I know life gets in the way of this

It actually did last month. My close friend's place who moved out of Jersey (during the recent Great Jersey Exodus) to Mississippi, got hit real bad, to the point of no electricity.

 

And since I am the only person in United States who could help, I simply had to do it. So, I drove the 8,000+ km, helped with all the rubble and physical work to get at least temporary electricity pole installed. Took about 10 days of work, but we cleaned the place up, made the conditions somewhat liveable, and then I drove back.

 

Unfortunately, that also meant:

- I had to kill my uninterrupted coding spree (since last august), which was 167 days

- I had to forget about the [paid for] SoCal retro convention happening this weekend, where they playable build would be in my booth

- I was about to make announcement and post a YT vid here, but I lost 3 weeks of making art assets, so no point doing it now\

- between bills and putting 8,000 km on a car I burnt through about $5k, but oh well, it's just money

 

Also, I took this opportunity of killing the coding spree, after coming back home a week ago, and started second Juice-only Reboot diet. I was very successfull last August with round one, and over 3 weeks, lost 35 pounds. Not bad.

Since we had no electricity in friend's place and couldn't cook, I had to use restaurants and fast food (which I personally never do, but the situation was dire, so we had to), which meant I gained 10 pounds in that week, but I already lost 12 pounds in 6 days, so at least I'm back to where I was prior to the trip.

 

It remains unclear, how long I will push this time. I suspect 3 weeks (I have a goal of 25 pounds this round), but that depends on when plateau hits (and for how long), which is - obviously- unpredictable.

 

 

So, it would appear there's at least 4-6 weeks during which time there was no work done (my brain is zombified while on juice diet, I can't even play games, let alone code), which simply pushes it 4-6 weeks to the future.



#704 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:08 PM

numberwang.png



#705 WAVE 1 GAMES OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:59 PM

 

I truly appreciate you coming out like this, in my defense, and exposing yourself to the wolves, I just don't want you to get caught and suffer in the cross-fire, but -FWIW- thank you ;)



At this point I'm fucking fire proof. The wolves can't really touch the lone wolf now can they?

#706 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:33 AM

At this point I'm fucking fire proof. The wolves can't really touch the lone wolf now can they?

No, you're not. Apparently it still matters to you what they write, because:

 - You still keep talking to them and get engaged in the sick mental games they constantly create

-  Also, you're approaching those games from wrong standpoint - you're trying to reason with them.

 

 

Trying to come up with some example - say you're going for a long roadtrip and need to sleep on your way someplace. Say, you booked your room at one of those room-share sites (name escapes me at the moment), in the middle of nowhere (no civilization hundreds miles in each direction - say like in North Dakota or Wyoming). You come in, and see the guy is a professional serial killer, he's got dozen jars with eyes on the shelf, pieces of body in the freezer and fridge and there's weird dark stain patches all over the floor and walls.

 

Would you really try to reason with him and hope you'll be OK in the morning :) ?



#707 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:46 AM

Hey VR-Vlad if you're still around, here's a DOS jewel I ran into yesterday... Something like this looks very feasible for the Jaguar thus this seems right up your alley.

 

As I said many times in past, I hate that lowres pixel shimmering on the textures. The world moved way too soon to textured games, and on Jaguar, the performance is better spent on more polygons and more complex scenes.

 

During my research phase in Q4'18, I discovered a way to have nice texture filtering (for ~almost free) on the roadside objects and roadside "terrain". I did the same for roadside props (tree shrubs), so it is possible to have 30+ fps basic textured environment with filtered textures.

 

It is something I was considering for my second game, but that was before I did a significant rewrite of the GPU rasterizer (which came too late to apply for my first game, but I will use it in the mini-game for the preorder edition).

That's the reason why I won't go for textured any time soon.

 

In my personal taste, the glitches related to such texturing (unless axis-aligned, which rules out driving genre) do not overweigh the sharp and smooth visuals of flat-shading and additional scene complexity (that you loose with texturing).



#708 PlaysWithWolves ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:53 PM

Me, nearly every time Vladr posts-

 

Hope: Vladr shows something truly innovative; preferably nearly-released

Nope: Another game of Manipulative Word Salad 2000.

 

The rules, for anyone who wants to play along:

 

f5b19b33d34b02d9e53a9a95af195cad--narcissistic-abuse-recovery-narcissistic-sociopath.jpg



#709 Gummy Bear OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:50 PM

You come in, and see the guy is a professional serial killer, he's got dozen jars with eyes on the shelf, pieces of body in the freezer and fridge and there's weird dark stain patches all over the floor and walls.


Damn! That DOES sound good!
Screenshots?

#710 LinkoVitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:28 AM


Trying to come up with some example - say you're going for a long roadtrip and need to sleep on your way someplace. Say, you booked your room at one of those room-share sites (name escapes me at the moment), in the middle of nowhere (no civilization hundreds miles in each direction - say like in North Dakota or Wyoming). You come in, and see the guy is a professional serial killer, he's got dozen jars with eyes on the shelf, pieces of body in the freezer and fridge and there's weird dark stain patches all over the floor and walls.

 

Would you really try to reason with him and hope you'll be OK in the morning :) ?

 

This is a very good point.. another example...

 

You go into an art studio that has been advertised everywhere as being the home of one of the best artists of all time, the artist themselves often posts about how skilled they are, how they are making breakthroughs all the time that have previously been thought impossible.  They are better than the old greats (by their own admissions).. You enter the studio and there is the artist, surrounded by his work, most of the canvases are blank, poorly fitted to frames, in some cases on the easel backwards or held on with drawing pins, a few canvases have something on which looks like it has been drawn on by a pre-school child who has eaten more of the crayon's used than actually drawn with them.  You can easily see that even someone with almost 0 artistic talent outshines this fraud.

The artists looks at you with an air of superiority and aloofness and whilst drawing from some old pipe to try and make himself look intelligent attempts to use pseudo psychology to tell you how he is much better than you are, and only an idiot wouldn't commission him to paint the family portrait you desire.  Unfortunately he is currently locking in a painting spree as can be seen from all the various (blank) canvases around him, he might consider allowing you to employ him for a commission once he has finished around... he gives you a date that has already passed..

 

Clearly the guy is deluded and in love with himself.  Any sane person would at this point turn around and leave, rather than continue in the face of all the evidence before you actually attempting to get anything from the guy.

Of course, after you leave, you find random badly written letters stuffed through your letter box attempting to insult you for not admiring his apparent mastery, even claiming that his work is better than the picture quality of the brand new UHD TV you just bought.  All the letters are written in brown crayon... you hope it's crayon.



#711 LinkoVitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:33 AM

Damn! That DOES sound good!
Screenshots?

 

You could imagine it as a hotel/shop in Curse of Monkey Island :D



#712 louisg OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:26 PM

YES. You are correct. The buildings are the only true polygons everything else is a 2D sprite. This actually looks a LOT like GTA2 with its 3d buildings and 2D sprites.

A good example of this on Jag hardware would be livewire.

 

I was hoping they had used the column drawing trick (find the horizontal line for the z you want, project the x, draw a scaled textured line upwards for the side of the wall). But the popping and roofs give it away.

 

I LOVE that game btw. There are so many things it nails, like the art style (it looks like it came right out of an SNK game), fun drifty handling, memorable track design... it deserved a lot more hype than it got! I didn't even know about it until a few years ago. I wonder if things would've been different for it if it'd been on a console. Somehow, the graphics make me think Saturn :D maybe it's all the pseudo3d and quads. 



#713 Stephen ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:29 PM

I believe you're forgetting, I'm burning through about $3k per month on living expenses to do this, so I don't think that qualifies as hobby anymore - well, perhaps a very expensive hobby :lol:
 
My personal motivation is very humble - I want:
- the most complex gameplay (e.g. the recent RPG features)
- the most smooth framerate (e.g. 30-60 fps)
- the most advanced flatshading 3D engine (e.g. HiRes + HiPoly)
- the largest game world possible (e.g. 500 levels)
 
And all of that done By a Single person as his first Jaguar game, because I can release my First Jaguar Game only once in my life. I gave this a lot of thought last year and this is my position. Whatever it costs - and at $3k/month it ain't cheap  :)

Do you ever have a static target.  How the hell did we get from a Hero clone, to a Road Rash game, to Stun Runner, to Atari 8-bit code doing balls out best ever texture mapping with all those 6052 cycle counts, back to Jag doing a 500 level fully featured RPG?

 

Am I missing something here?  Sometimes I have trouble following long draw out ever changing stories, so forgive me if I misspoke on anything.

 


#714 VladR OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:39 PM

 

Do you ever have a static target.  How the hell did we get from a Hero clone, to a Road Rash game, to Stun Runner, to Atari 8-bit code doing balls out best ever texture mapping with all those 6052 cycle counts, back to Jag doing a 500 level fully featured RPG?

 

Am I missing something here?  Sometimes I have trouble following long draw out ever changing stories, so forgive me if I misspoke on anything.

 

 

re: H.E.R.O. - that was merely a proof that you can do 60 fps texturing in a useable game scenario from high-level C, without any assembler, GPU or DSP.

re: Atari 8-bit - as I said few dozen times, I take "recharge" breaks from jag coding. Accidentally, what was supposed to be a precompute scenario during loading, turned out to be real-time (after ~8 rounds of optimizations).

 

re:static target : No, I do not have a static target, I am very flexible in this regard. If I find out that I can suddenly implement a previously very expensive feature, I go for it. Of course, I could go like this, hypothetically forever, but realistically, the amount of money is not infinite.

 

But, while I'm burning a $100 bill every single day, that's on me.

 

 

Of course, the moment I start taking pre-orders, everything else will have to wait and creating the final build will be the only focus, without additional improvements.

 

 

My juice diet had to be abruptly ended, as in 3 days I'm flying to Europe for 2 weeks to take care of well - life, just booked the flights tonight, should be back second half of March. I will also use this opportunity [of physically being there] to secure some additional financing, so if that's going to be successful, I might have bought myself some 6 more months. We'll see.



#715 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:00 PM

Do you ever have a static target.  How the hell did we get from a Hero clone, to a Road Rash game, to Stun Runner, to Atari 8-bit code doing balls out best ever texture mapping with all those 6052 cycle counts, back to Jag doing a 500 level fully featured RPG?
 
Am I missing something here?  Sometimes I have trouble following long draw out ever changing stories, so forgive me if I misspoke on anything.


<sarcasm> You are so fired! Everyone knows it's a 6908 </sarcasm>



#716 Stephen ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:48 PM

<sarcasm> You are so fired! Everyone knows it's a 6908 </sarcasm>

omg.  This is why I suck.  Every time I try to talk shit, I am the fool.  6502.  Off to bed :mad:



#717 agradeneu OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 1, 2019 2:43 AM

re: H.E.R.O. - that was merely a proof that you can do 60 fps texturing in a useable game scenario from high-level C, without any assembler, GPU or DSP.

re: Atari 8-bit - as I said few dozen times, I take "recharge" breaks from jag coding. Accidentally, what was supposed to be a precompute scenario during loading, turned out to be real-time (after ~8 rounds of optimizations).

 

re:static target : No, I do not have a static target, I am very flexible in this regard. If I find out that I can suddenly implement a previously very expensive feature, I go for it. Of course, I could go like this, hypothetically forever, but realistically, the amount of money is not infinite.

 

But, while I'm burning a $100 bill every single day, that's on me.

 

 

Of course, the moment I start taking pre-orders, everything else will have to wait and creating the final build will be the only focus, without additional improvements.

 

 

My juice diet had to be abruptly ended, as in 3 days I'm flying to Europe for 2 weeks to take care of well - life, just booked the flights tonight, should be back second half of March. I will also use this opportunity [of physically being there] to secure some additional financing, so if that's going to be successful, I might have bought myself some 6 more months. We'll see.

I'm not convinced, get focused. ;-) Given the erratic impression you make and the everchanging stories and excuses - good luck with taking preorders! 


Edited by agradeneu, Fri Mar 1, 2019 3:04 AM.


#718 42bs OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 1, 2019 2:53 AM

<sarcasm> You are so fired! Everyone knows it's a 6908 </sarcasm>

 

6908? You mean 6809, I presume.



#719 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 1, 2019 3:08 AM

I'll be sure to sign up for a pre-order on an unfinished game from a developer with such a fantastic track record of releases under his belt :)

When are the rabid players eagerly awaiting release gonna get to play this



#720 madman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 1, 2019 8:42 AM

When are the rabid players eagerly awaiting release gonna get to play this

I think that was delayed due to a poor cherry crop season. Or maybe it was because of a bad muffler on his car or pork belly futures. However, it will most certainly be playable at the next retro gaming con he's paid for that he will 100% attend and not make any excuses for his absence. 



#721 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 1, 2019 4:31 PM

 

6908? You mean 6809, I presume.

<sarcasm> Nope. </sarcasm>

http://atariage.com/...29#entry4225533



#722 Stephen ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 1, 2019 5:35 PM

 

6908? You mean 6809, I presume.

I got called out on a typo in a hilarious manner.






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