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Personal 4 port cartridge expansion project

4 port cartridge Expansion

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#26 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:03 PM

Hell! With those switches you can switch all lines! :)

The Great Doctor addresses the 'buggy' problem later in the upgrade article but this has nothing to do with the basic Navarone Widget.

p.s the Navarone Widget is so simplistic you might as well try it first.
http://www.ti99.com/...pander-navarone
again...Good Luck. ;)



Duly noted. Thank you.

#27 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:46 AM

As you can imagine the Great Doctor has covered this (though, in his way, to expand) and tells us exactly what Naverone did in the first few paragraphs:

http://www.nouspikel...titechpages.htm

All chips are connected and powered except -5 is switched.
Too easy!

 

The problem is that boards based on the UberGROM fail when you switch the -5v for GROMs, because it doesn't use the -5V line. So the GROMs end up not getting switched out.



#28 sjt OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:10 PM

Tursi would be the authority on a UberGrom card and how it might react in a cartridge expander.

Maybe he can explain why it wouldn't work.


Edited by sjt, Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:49 AM.


#29 Lee Stewart OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:17 PM

Are you saying that supercarts and eprom cartridges don't work in the widget design? They do.

 

...not if there is an UberGROM board present.

 

...lee



#30 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:26 PM

Are you saying that supercarts and eprom cartridges don't work in the widget design? They do.

 

Obviously you know better than I do. UberGROM emulation is clearly the same thing as Supercarts and Eprom carts. I'm pretty new to all this.



#31 sjt OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:30 PM

Sarcasm, Tursi

I've been out of this for a while, (a few years)  sorry I'm not familiar with  AVR cartridge cards created to simulate groms.

I'm only familiar with eprom,  supercarts and multicarts along with Gazoo created adaptations to run on them

 

Obviously you Do know better than I, since my assumption is you wrote the software that allows this grom emulation board  to function....

 

Please explain further for those of us not around while this development was made.

 

Would a single Ubergrom cartridge work with others in a widget? or not.


Edited by sjt, Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:59 AM.


#32 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:13 AM

I think it would be fair to say most, if not all of us have learned from Tursi over the years.  To me Tursi is like one of those E.F. Hutton commercials from back in the day.

 

 

 

For people under the age of 50 that might not remember the E.F. Hutton commercials, I've attached one below for reference...

 



#33 Ksarul ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:43 AM

As Tursi already noted, The Widget drops the -5V line to switch cartridges--and the UberGROM doesn't care about that line, so the GROMs on it stay live, no matter what the switch position is. Any regular TI GROM cartridge will then fight with it for bus access, which is not good. I'm actually looking at an updated Widget board that will eliminate that problem, but it isn't too far along in my development queue right now. I'm watching the Sinphaltimus project with interest, as it may generate some ideas I can use too. . .

 

I have also seen some issues show up if more than two of the larger EPROM boards are in a Widget at the same time. That looks like it might be a power issue (three of them seem to load it down a bit too much), but I haven't tried to follow it to its conclusion yet. It doesn't always happen either, which is why I'm still playing with it. . .



#34 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:14 PM

In keeping with Build It First then Wire It Up... I've made some progress today.

Drilling free hand...

16406689_10208047484856899_7800027518584

 

 

Spacing and board sie look good for internal mounting...

16265638_10208047512937601_2797843672604

 

 

From the rear showing a design modification. Grom edge connector is going to have to come out the center rear since I needed to reuse some a/v ports for structural integrity. 

 

 

16406994_10208047521417813_6758333949194

 

 

Straight on view and you can see the screw holes at the A/V ports that were used to hold the original board in place. I decided to keep it that way.

 

 

16195886_10208047529338011_1226459410629

 

 

Topless...


16195243_10208047526697945_5319029508191

 

 

 

From the bottom...


16388328_10208047533298110_2498278978591

 

 

 

Scuffed up the cover (will repair and repaint when done) but....the dremel battery drains out. Need to recharge...


16387194_10208047544538391_6475429625513

 

 

TIFN...


Edited by Sinphaltimus, Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:15 PM.


#35 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:44 AM

We first learned about the widget incompatibility about two years ago. Several of us spent about a month analyzing the issue and trying to come up with a board layout that would work with the Widget. My intent was to attempt to detect the -5v and switch the UG off if it went away. Unfortunately, due to the large number of components on the board and (probably at least in part) some inexperience with the analog side of things, not to mention the difficulty in reading a negative voltage from a positive microcontroller, we just couldn't get the detection to be reliable.

 

Two posts from back when we learned about it:

 

http://atariage.com/...atus/?p=3019724
http://atariage.com/...atus/?p=3053633



#36 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:12 PM

Rough cuts. The actual slots will need to be large enough for the cartridges since the cover is too thick. Next, I have to draw up an illustrative schematic to match so I will know how to write it up. Of course I'm going to submit it for peer review.

 

16402853_10208054602394833_4058652180643

 

 

 

And a shot of the rear. Once I get an approved schematic illustration I can start to wire it up....

16252516_10208054604314881_5460236266650

 


Edited by Sinphaltimus, Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:12 PM.


#37 Shift838 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:32 PM

Looking Good



#38 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:30 AM

Looking Good


Thanks. This was the fun part for me. The wiring is going to be fairly challenging once I figure it out.

#39 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:15 AM

They say, "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery."

 

If this prototype of yours works out, there may be a market for a PCB, BOM list, and a 3D printed case.  Just thinking ahead!  ;)



#40 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 4, 2017 6:37 PM

OK. I think this is the way I gotta do it. Wadya think felluhs?

 

I believe this one is wrong - please see next diagram in following post.

Attached File  Diagram2.png   240.51KB   1 downloads


Edited by Sinphaltimus, Sun Feb 5, 2017 4:57 AM.


#41 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 5, 2017 3:54 AM

OK I believe this one is correct. Please let me know -

.Attached File  Diagram1.png   247.23KB   1 downloads

 

OK, I updated it. 

Attached File  Diagram3.png   257.02KB   1 downloads


Edited by Sinphaltimus, Sun Feb 5, 2017 4:14 PM.


#42 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:41 AM

I have to create a new schematic. Tursi described a different setup plus I need to study the supplied resources more.


I think this is how it goes...

Attached File  Diagram5.png   597.99KB   1 downloads

 

 


Edited by Sinphaltimus, Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:42 AM.


#43 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:45 PM

Ok. Looks like the post above this is the Final schematic. I will start soldering this weekend.... Oh Joy!

#44 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 10:05 AM

Cover me...I'm going in... (pics to follow later in the day)



#45 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 10:14 AM

:thumbsup:

#46 Sinphaltimus OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 3, 2017 1:43 PM

I got this far, then I started to solder, then I realized they were on the wrong side of the board. Then i desoldered it cleaned it up, now I'm back where I started. Taking the rest of the day off. Gonna go do other things while I work some stuff out for this project.

 

16997753_10208303736623033_1494123993812







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