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1088XEL Alternative Mother-Board Project

Alernative Motherboard Redesign New Advanced Atari 8-bit

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#26 mytekcontrols ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:41 PM

Any thoughts about 816 linear RAM?

 

Hi Kyle  :)

 

I'll be leaving that up to other upgrades to deliver. So what you see in my schematics is as far as I plan to take it. Main reasoning being that the upgrades I've provided for seem to fulfill a great majority of what is well supported by a lot of applications, and/or meets a lot of common needs. This project in itself isn't about providing the advanced side of things, but I will do my best to at least allow for those upgrades to plug in. However as I mentioned earlier that could get tricky due to the small footprint of the motherboard.

 

- Michael 



#27 mytekcontrols ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:59 PM

For when I get into the PCB layout, does anyone have a dimensional drawing of the board outline and where the piggy-back pins are in reference to the board edges for both the VBXE and Rapidus?

 

Thanks in advance :) 

 

- Michael 



#28 mytekcontrols ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:25 PM

Slightly updated schematics (V1.X 1/17/2017): Attached File  1088XEL_V1_X_1-17-2017_schema.pdf   241.58KB   50 downloads

 

I will be using Version Number 1.X while the project is in its preliminary form, and will append the upload date to differentiate between preliminary versions.

 

Changes

  1. Corrected labeling on U1MB MMU header.
  2. Added 100 ohm inline protection resistors for 'reserved' pin assigned outputs.

 

- Michael



#29 Blues76 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:35 PM

Amazing!

#30 hitchcock4 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:36 PM

Looks like a great project! Very exciting

 

Since ITX form factor is new to some - note that the mounting hole placement is critical to being able to mount the board in these cases. Please refer to http://formfactors.o...x_spec_V1_1.pdf and see pages 8-9 form the mounting hole placement.

 

Some Mini-ITX cases to consider for this board.

 

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811163287 Small case with a handle for portability.

 

http://www.newegg.co...=9SIA66Z3NV0593 Gold case with plenty of space inside and ATX power supply. Many people already have the ATX power supply.

 

https://www.newegg.c...=9SIA66Z3NV0591 Same as above but in silver. I think some people could get really creative here and give this silver case a 600XL/800XL theme to it.

itx with handle.PNG itx in silver.PNG


Edited by hitchcock4, Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:46 PM.


#31 Standard User OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:17 PM

Looking at the Mini - ITX cases on NewEgg and spotted this one :

 

https://www.newegg.c...3-273-_-Product

 

It looks like a close match style-wise to a 1090 XL. 8-O

 

Some more of the kind of clean, simple boxes you'd expect from  late-era Atari, more horizontal and with USB ports on the front one could re- purpose as Joy - Stick ports,  if one wanted.

 

https://www.newegg.c...F9344-_-Product

 

https://www.newegg.c...A4300-_-Product

 

https://www.newegg.c...3-244-_-Product

 

If one wants to go wild with custom mods and add-ons - say a version of the 1090XL up top and custom panels for SD drives , joysticks, etc. in-front. :

 

https://www.newegg.c...N82E16811119265

 

Fun hobbyist dreams. :)

 

I'll take a board and a case when it eventually becomes available and might resort to my own shenanigans. ;)



#32 mytekcontrols ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:48 PM

Wow lots of choices in cases  :-o

 

Since my first goal with this project was make it small, I'm kinda partial to this one...

A7M0_1310183731193590678MvoQ7Udij.jpg

The custom enclosure I was envisioning would be very similar to that. I could even see just having custom front and rear panels made for it (probably end up the same money wise).

 

- Michael

 

EDIT: Just discovered that this one is not big enough for the Mini-ITX footprint (link to manufacturer's site), apparently it is for something called the Intel NUC.


Edited by mytekcontrols, Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:56 PM.


#33 Kyle22 ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:06 AM

Where's the SIO port?

 

:)



#34 Standard User OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:07 AM

Yes, just spotted that, but was too later to correct it. I was partial to the general design.... curves and all, At least we have a general gist at what you're after. ;)



#35 mytekcontrols ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:19 AM

Where's the SIO port?

 

:)

 

It's there, but I'm using a D-Sub 15 for the connector (see the last page in that pdf I just uploaded). Physically it's not the same connector as what the A8 came with, but I did match the numerical order pin for pin ( 1=1, 2=2, ect. ). And for obvious reasons, the D-sub is just easier to get and work with then the special jack that was SIO on the A8. I figure a simple D-Sub to SIO Plug adapter cable would be relatively easy to make and use. Also I am leaning towards a 0.1" header for the PBI, instead of an edge card connection. This style of connector appears to be widely utilized on many PBI devices, so it should fit right in.

 

Speaking of SIO, there is also built-in SIO2PC-USB support, so that frees up the external SIO connection (no dead end).

 

- Michael



#36 mytekcontrols ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:25 AM

Yes, just spotted that, but was too later to correct it. I was partial to the general design.... curves and all, At least we have a general gist at what you're after. ;)

 

Yeah that kind of thing is what I had in mind. But hey, people are free to put this into anything they want. I was also thinking if someone was going to drop this into a 'real' A8 enclosure, the stock keyboard could be supported with a very simple Pokey piggy-back board. It would just need 2 CD4051 chips and a keyboard connector. Just a thought, since I won't have this support inclusive to the design.

 

- Michael



#37 Larry ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:01 AM

Do they come in cream/brown?  ;-)  Oh, well, I'm sure Krylon has something to take care of that...

 

More seriously, an internal floppy drive in the case would be nice to get rid of some cables running amok on my desk.

 

-Larry



#38 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:11 AM

although you can still get the sio ports, contact steve at atarimax, who Knows what kind of collaboration could come from the call.



#39 TXG/MNX OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:03 AM

It would be nice to have something like antonia 65816 with 16mb ram and option to select original 6502c and 65816, just by a switch. Include an ide aswell when you can make room route a blackbox/mio on the board that would make it ultra awesome

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#40 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:41 AM

although you can still get the sio ports, contact steve at atarimax, who Knows what kind of collaboration could come from the call.

 

I was given a resounding no.  I don't know of anyone else who has been successful with him on that either.  If I'm wrong, please speak up



#41 mytekcontrols ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:16 AM

Although some minor changes may be required to correct mistakes and/or to finish things I'm still working out such as how to derive the PBI right channel audio-in pass-thru... this is the design that will be built.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this topic, this project has been in the works for over a year, and I've had a lot of time to think about what it will be. What I wanted from the get go was a very compact Atari 8-bit computer that was still based on the original LSI chips for maximum compatibility (not FPGA or emulation in a Raspberry Pi). At the same time I wanted something that integrated the upgrades that gave the most bang for the buck. Or in other words, made the most sense to have in a daily driver either for general computing use or game playing. And with a multitude of SSD cartridge based solutions available supporting CF, SD, and microSD that would be my hard drive option so to speak, and not be made an integral part of my motherboard design. A 65816 was considered, but primarily I didn't feel like I could personally do that justice, and also didn't see that as required for what this project was about. And in order to keep the 'compact' aspect of the design intact while still allowing for potential expansion, a parallel bus interface was included.

So hopefully this paints a better picture of what this project is about.

Yes some connection methods have changed, specifically the SIO (D-Sub 15) and the PBI (50 pin header). But these are still very workable in their new forms, with simple adapter cables making the transition.

-Michael

Edited by mytekcontrols, Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:21 AM.


#42 576XE OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:45 AM

Hi there, Michael!

 

Best wishes and season greatings!

 

I only can not understand the philosophy of this construction.

 

Mini(Micro/Nano) ITX Barebone with Altirra can give us all the things!!!

 

I said somewhere that modern Intel is only the expansion of Atari.

Northern bridge and Southern bridge are GTIA and ANTIC in slightly bizzare manner.

New SSD in some way is only CARTS!

USB is SIO functionally...

Memory expansions like SD-Cards is CARTS too...

 

Do you think that we need some other Atari improvements?

 

Like HW Mouse control

Like 256 signes fontsets

Like HW keyboard expansion

Like...



#43 mytekcontrols ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:49 AM

Hi there, Michael!

 

Best wishes and season greatings!

 

I only can not understand the philosophy of this construction.

 

Mini(Micro/Nano) ITX Barebone with Altirra can give us all the things!!!

 

I said somewhere that modern Intel is only the expansion of Atari.

Northern bridge and Southern bridge are GTIA and ANTIC in slightly bizzare manner.

New SSD in some way is only CARTS!

USB is SIO functionally...

Memory expansions like SD-Cards is CARTS too...

 

Do you think that we need some other Atari improvements?

 

Like HW Mouse control

Like 256 signes fontsets

Like HW keyboard expansion

Like...

 

Thank you  :)

 

I hope you have a nice day  :grin:

 

- Michael



#44 Gandor OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:36 PM

Very interesting project, looking forward to the result


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#45 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:08 PM

 

I was given a resounding no.  I don't know of anyone else who has been successful with him on that either.  If I'm wrong, please speak up

Nope - he refuses to sell SIO ports, cart cases, et.al.



#46 mytekcontrols ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:13 PM

Nope - he refuses to sell SIO ports, cart cases, et.al.

 

Well that settles it as far as I'm concerned. Sorry folks, but I'll be sticking with SIO through a D-Sub 15 connection  :grin:

 

- Michael



#47 bob1200xl OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:17 PM

Ah-Ha! Atari beat you to it. I have a 1020 that has DB-15 connectors in it, with this cable included.

 

I do notice that they do not follow with the SIO protocol as both male connectors in the device - one is male and one is female - ?

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

It's there, but I'm using a D-Sub 15 for the connector (see the last page in that pdf I just uploaded). Physically it's not the same connector as what the A8 came with, but I did match the numerical order pin for pin ( 1=1, 2=2, ect. ). And for obvious reasons, the D-sub is just easier to get and work with then the special jack that was SIO on the A8. I figure a simple D-Sub to SIO Plug adapter cable would be relatively easy to make and use. Also I am leaning towards a 0.1" header for the PBI, instead of an edge card connection. This style of connector appears to be widely utilized on many PBI devices, so it should fit right in.

 

Speaking of SIO, there is also built-in SIO2PC-USB support, so that frees up the external SIO connection (no dead end).

 

- Michael

 

 

 

DSC01567.JPG



#48 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:21 PM

YEah Id be much more interested in something that has the actual stuff integrated in the board..  Eg. 20mhz 65816 cpu, 32megs sdram, 16meg linear/16meg banked.. vbxe.. stereo pokey..  dma based fast mass storage..  flashable OS/DOS.. 

 

Why reinvent the wheel.. If your gonna make a new board, make all the "upgrades" integrated from the start..  Then people who would like to use/develop for the "modern high-spec" atari XL/XE can buy that one board and be assured of some exact common level of compatability/reliability...

 

 Lets get serious...



#49 mytekcontrols ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:19 PM

Ah-Ha! Atari beat you to it. I have a 1020 that has DB-15 connectors in it, with this cable included.
 
I do notice that they do not follow with the SIO protocol as both male connectors in the device - one is male and one is female - ?
 
Bob
 
attachicon.gifDSC01567.JPG

 
Hi Bob  :)
 
That would mate perfectly with what I have in mind  :-o  Because I have a male D-Sub 15-pin connector already spec'ed as my SIO connection  :)  Hey can you ohm that out and see if they have the same numbers going from one end over to the other?
 
 

YEah Id be much more interested in something that has the actual stuff integrated in the board..  Eg. 20mhz 65816 cpu, 32megs sdram, 16meg linear/16meg banked.. vbxe.. stereo pokey..  dma based fast mass storage..  flashable OS/DOS.. 

 

Why reinvent the wheel.. If your gonna make a new board, make all the "upgrades" integrated from the start..  Then people who would like to use/develop for the "modern high-spec" atari XL/XE can buy that one board and be assured of some exact common level of compatability/reliability...

 

 Lets get serious...

 

Thank you  :)

 

Have a nice day  :D

 

- Michael

 

 

--- This is a DIY project being done for my own entertainment, and not meant for general consumption --- Serious will cost you $$$ ---


Edited by mytekcontrols, Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:25 PM.


#50 BillC OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:46 PM

I believe this is the layout that has already been implemented when using DA15 for SIO connectors.

 

DA15-SIO.gif

 

I checked the Sdrive Nuxx schematic and it does use this method. He made the PCB with footprints for both SIO/DA15 connectors, either can be installed. I would suggest doing the same, giving the end user the choice of which connector to use.

800px-sdrive_nuxx_pcb_eagle.png







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