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1088XEL Alternative Mother-Board Project

Alernative Motherboard Redesign New Advanced Atari 8-bit

1235 replies to this topic

#751 Van OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 3, 2017 9:30 PM

 

I just received an order of UAV's from Bryan that came with the proper XEL ready configuration. So most likely if you tell him that you want the XEL version he'll know what you are talking about.

 

- Michael

I thought you had mentioned that before but wanted to make sure it was clear to all that they should request the UAV  headers configured for the XEL. Bryan seems like a good guy to deal with so it's very easy to get the UAV ready to go :)

 

The latest additions to the V1.1 look good, only problem I see is you're running out of space to add anything else ;)

Yogi



#752 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 3, 2017 10:12 PM

The latest additions to the V1.1 look good, only problem I see is you're running out of space to add anything else ;)

 

Imagine if the U1MB had been incorporated directly into the motherboard as was suggested early on this thread  ;)  Having it piggyback gives us a lot of usable space underneath.

 

- Michael



#753 Van OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 4, 2017 8:56 AM

 

Imagine if the U1MB had been incorporated directly into the motherboard as was suggested early on this thread  ;)  Having it piggyback gives us a lot of usable space underneath.

 

- Michael

That's for sure. Modular is the way to go.

Your design choices really made this project very do-able. Lots of people don't appreciate the extra complexity of going SMD with a DIY project on this scale. The stencils, solder bearing paste, reflow oven and hand placing dozens of TINY parts.

Yogi



#754 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 3:34 PM

Revision V1.1 Appears to be Nearing Production Status

 

I'm so confident in the design at this point, that I've decided to reveal what hopefully will be the final schematics. The PAL mode is now cooperating, and has been successful in passing over 24 hours of testing with 4 different Antics, and 3 different GTIA chips. Both the newer XL/XE and the older 400/800 Antic chips appear to be working correctly. Due to a much greater discount, I would recommend buying the 400/800 Antic chips for either PAL or NTSC applications. New firmware versions for the TK-II, Mousetari, and the VGATE chips will be required. Although these are backwards compatible for any existing hardware upgrades that use them. The TK-II will now respond to a 'held' key on power-up, so as to allow disabling Basic or to directly enter the U1MB Setup or Loader menus, as well as a few other things such as loading a cassette.

 

SzjaLr7.png

 

5MT3qKP.png

 

Q8PE0vA.png

 

Sno8OQG.png

 

HhfZmFZ.png

 

I5I0jtH.png

 

Complete Schematics in PDF format: Attached File  1088XEL_V1_1_7-04-2017_schema.pdf   324.38KB   98 downloads

 

- Michael


Edited by mytekcontrols, Wed Jul 5, 2017 3:41 PM.


#755 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 3:50 PM

That's great that you found the PAL bug!



#756 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 4:13 PM

That's great that you found the PAL bug!

 

The bug turned out to be two things on my system. One was that my IC socket for GTIA wasn't making good contact with all of the pins, and once that was resolved, then I needed to go back to PH0 buffering as was done on the original iteration, but this time switch it up to a 74F08 instead of the formally used 74HCT08 device.

 

And as a double check, I just got done testing this in orpheuswaking's XEL, and it too works properly with both PAL and NTSC. So that's two for two  :thumbsup:  :)

 

Here's the updated PCB layout (note the change in U11's label).

 

5TSUAb5.png

 

- Michael


Edited by mytekcontrols, Wed Jul 5, 2017 4:16 PM.


#757 Xebec OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 6:07 PM

"So I have a dead 800XL but all of the Atari custom chips appear to be OK"  -- is this my solution? :)



#758 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 6:16 PM

"So I have a dead 800XL but all of the Atari custom chips appear to be OK"  -- is this my solution? :)

 

Hard to imagine it's easier to build a bare board from scratch than fix whatever is wrong with your 800XL, but maybe. :) 



#759 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 6:18 PM

I have had a terrible day at work.  I'll test these changes on my board tomorrow.  Hopefully we'll be 3 for 3.



#760 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 5, 2017 6:39 PM

"So I have a dead 800XL but all of the Atari custom chips appear to be OK"  -- is this my solution? :)

 
Not if you want to use your original case. This project is aimed at people like myself that want the real Atari experience, but also like the idea of a separate keyboard, smaller footprint, and quite frankly something with a custom edge who are not attached to the original look and feel of the A8. It's also aimed at providing a much easier upgrade path, assuming we are talking about a completely assembled board. Speaking of which,  this is definitely not a beginners project if they wish to roll their own, and will absolutely require excellent soldering skills and very good technical expertise. If you have any doubts about your ability to do something like this, and to deal with the possibility of sinking a lot of time and money into something that might not work upon first power-up, it would be best to find someone to build it for you. Hopefully there will be a few individuals that step up to do this, and I believe I know of at least two that said they were game. But once again let me say, this is not meant to be a replacement for your stock Atari motherboard.
 
 

I have had a terrible day at work.  I'll test these changes on my board tomorrow.  Hopefully we'll be 3 for 3.

 
Stephen I hope the rest of your week goes much better. Yep 3 for 3 would be grand  :thumbsup: 

- Michael


Edited by mytekcontrols, Wed Jul 5, 2017 6:52 PM.


#761 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 6, 2017 8:01 AM

 

The bug turned out to be two things on my system. One was that my IC socket for GTIA wasn't making good contact with all of the pins, and once that was resolved, then I needed to go back to PH0 buffering as was done on the original iteration, but this time switch it up to a 74F08 instead of the formally used 74HCT08 device.

 

And as a double check, I just got done testing this in orpheuswaking's XEL, and it too works properly with both PAL and NTSC. So that's two for two  :thumbsup:  :)

 

Here's the updated PCB layout (note the change in U11's label).

 

5TSUAb5.png

 

- Michael

 

 

Awesome!

 

What's the plan now?   Were you going to do a final board with the v1.1 revisions and do final testing?  Or do you feel that it's unnecessary? 

 

I know a BOM was circulated a few weeks back. Is that definitive, or missing some parts?   It would be nice to start accumulating the parts in the meantime.  :)



#762 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 6, 2017 8:32 AM

Awesome!
 
What's the plan now?   Were you going to do a final board with the v1.1 revisions and do final testing?  Or do you feel that it's unnecessary? 
 
I know a BOM was circulated a few weeks back. Is that definitive, or missing some parts?   It would be nice to start accumulating the parts in the meantime.  :)


Yes I'll be doing a test run of the V1.1 PCB design in about 2 weeks when I'm certain that all is well with the new layout. And I'll have to finish migrating the changes over to the BOM and then post the results. The Gerber files for the board will be released following the verification of the real board. There might be a few delays, since my 'real' job deadlines are going to take precedence over this hobby related stuff.

- Michael

#763 Theoryman OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:48 PM

Having read thru this thread I'd like to acquire a few 1088XEL unpopulated boards when they are ready.

 

They will be published?  Or available directly from you?

 

I realize you don't want to release a full BOM until the final board layout is ready, but how about a list of the add-on's hardware supported and/or needed?

 

Some of those have to come from Europe, and will require weeks of shipping.  I'd like to get all those ordered now...

 

What I found as a partial list is:

 

Rapidus is supported but not required.   Available from Lotharek

Ultimate 1MB is required.  Available from Lotharek

VBXE is supported but not required.  Available from Lotharek

UAV is supported? Required?  Available from Bryan

 

Mousetari is a PIC 16F1847 with your code.

TK-II is a second PIC 16F1847 with your code.

XEL-I3 d a PBI to IDE/CF interface that the board will be published as well?

 

What other custom hardware do I need to get?

 

Theory



#764 Van OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:50 PM

Hi Theoryman, the PAL issue has been resolved so I'm sure Michael will be releasing the design files very soon. There are plans for a production run by one member, don't know if this will be bare boards, kits or turn-key builds. The Gerber files will be open HW so anyone can do a run of boards. Most board houses will have a 10 board min so a group buy would be best.

 

I would suggest that if you want a kit wait till it's announced before ordering the basic parts, the cost may be better due to volume discounts and having all the needed parts from one source is saves a lot of headaches. Most likely the chipset, U1MB, UAV and FTDI BOB will have to be sourced but I would hold off

 

The harder to find parts are listed here, but if kits are available I would recommend waiting.
You will need a known good chipset- CPU, ANTIC, GTIA, PIA and PoKEY (2 for stereo). You can either use a donor Atari or buy NOS chips.

The ANTIC and GTIA both need to be either NTSC or PAL, you can't mix and match. Also the (NTSC) ANTIC can be the older CO12296 or the newer CO21697, the older one is cheaper from some sources.

If you are going to build a PAL version you will also need the Xtals 3.546894MHz and 4.433618MHz. Check at Best as these are not so easy to find. For NTSC you will need a 3.579545MHz but should be able to find it at Digikey so wait for you other BOM parts.

 

U1MB, will have to change the RA headers to straight one. So if you don't want to do the de-soldering, contact someone to help. I believe Stephen has offered to help with this (earlier in this thread).

 

UAV ver C or ver D have both been tested, when ordering from Bryan request the XEL headers, all 3 SIPs are 'pin-2-pin'.

 

Sparkfun FTDI BoB 12731

 

You'll also need the 64K SRAM chip UM61512A. Will have to search Ebay, I ordered from this seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/391377191204and http://www.ebay.com/itm/371081620321

 

3 PICs- 2 16F1847 and a 16F1571. These need to be programmed with the firmware, If you can program them then buy them blank but otherwise you could ask here or buy from Microchip Direct and have them factory programmed. I would wait as there are still firmware updates in the works.

 

Cart connector-http://www.ebay.com/itm/140888497123and ECI connector-http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pc-Industrial-Card-Edge-Slot-Socket-Connector-7x2P-14P-2-54mm-0-1-3A/141501565005?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

There are also the RCA and S-Video stacked connector and PS2 KB and Mouse stacked connector. The SIO connector or you can use a DB-15. A DIN 13 RGB connector, like on the Atari STs, optional.

 

Most everything else can be ordered from Digikey and will ship fast, so wait for the BOM with the updated list.

Yogi



#765 Van OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:00 PM

Hi Theoryman, the PAL issue has been resolved so I'm sure Michael will be releasing the design files very soon. There are plans for a production run by one member, don't know if this will be bare boards, kits or turn-key builds. The Gerber files will be open HW so anyone can do a run of boards. Most board houses will have a 10 board min so a group buy would be best.

 

I would suggest that if you want a kit wait till it's announced before ordering the basic parts, the cost may be better due to volume discounts and having all the needed parts from one source is saves a lot of headaches. Most likely the chipset, U1MB, UAV and FTDI BOB will have to be sourced but I would hold off

 

The harder to find parts are listed here, but if kits are available I would recommend waiting.
You will need a known good chipset- CPU, ANTIC, GTIA, PIA and PoKEY (2 for stereo). You can either use a donor Atari or buy NOS chips.

The ANTIC and GTIA both need to be either NTSC or PAL, you can't mix and match. Also the (NTSC) ANTIC can be the older CO12296 or the newer CO21697, the older one is cheaper from some sources.

If you are going to build a PAL version you will also need the Xtals 3.546894MHz and 4.433618MHz. Check at Best as these are not so easy to find. For NTSC you will need a 3.579545MHz but should be able to find it at Digikey so wait for you other BOM parts.

 

U1MB, will have to change the RA headers to straight one. So if you don't want to do the de-soldering, contact someone to help. I believe Stephen has offered to help with this (earlier in this thread).

 

UAV ver C or ver D have both been tested, when ordering from Bryan request the XEL headers, all 3 SIPs are 'pin-2-pin'.

 

Sparkfun FTDI BoB 12731

 

You'll also need the 64K SRAM chip UM61512A. Will have to search Ebay, I ordered from this seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/391377191204and http://www.ebay.com/itm/371081620321

 

3 PICs- 2 16F1847 and a 16F1571. These need to be programmed with the firmware, If you can program them then buy them blank but otherwise you could ask here or buy from Microchip Direct and have them factory programmed. I would wait as there are still firmware updates in the works.

 

Cart connector-http://www.ebay.com/itm/140888497123and ECI connector-http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pc-Industrial-Card-Edge-Slot-Socket-Connector-7x2P-14P-2-54mm-0-1-3A/141501565005?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

There are also the RCA and S-Video stacked connector and PS2 KB and Mouse stacked connector. The SIO connector or you can use a DB-15. A DIN 13 RGB connector, like on the Atari STs, optional.

 

Most everything else can be ordered from Digikey and will ship fast, so wait for the BOM with the updated list.

Yogi



#766 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:09 AM

Having read thru this thread I'd like to acquire a few 1088XEL unpopulated boards when they are ready.

 

They will be published?  Or available directly from you?

 

I realize you don't want to release a full BOM until the final board layout is ready, but how about a list of the add-on's hardware supported and/or needed?

 

Some of those have to come from Europe, and will require weeks of shipping.  I'd like to get all those ordered now...

 

What I found as a partial list is:

 

Rapidus is supported but not required.   Available from Lotharek

Ultimate 1MB is required.  Available from Lotharek

VBXE is supported but not required.  Available from Lotharek

UAV is supported? Required?  Available from Bryan

 

Mousetari is a PIC 16F1847 with your code.

TK-II is a second PIC 16F1847 with your code.

XEL-I3 d a PBI to IDE/CF interface that the board will be published as well?

 

What other custom hardware do I need to get?

 

Theory

 

Yep Yogi (Van) pretty much covered the basics on his last post. And I'm still not ready to release the BOM yet, but I can give you this for starters...

 

lN8zuly.png

The only crystal you need to purchase from BEST is the PAL 3.546894 shown in the list, and only if you intend to run the board in a PAL configuration. All the other crystals are off the shelf items that can be ordered from Digi-Key, and as Yogi pointed out, those will only take a few days. Unfortunately BEST's POKEY pricing and limit of one policy can be a problem, so if you have a loaner board to take chips from so much the better. For starters you can get by on only one Pokey. Also just to be clear either the 400/800 or XE/XL ANTIC chip will work, but the older series is much less expensive.

 

There are 3 PIC chips required, two PIC16F1847's, and one PIC12F1571. Updated code for all 3 will be included with the full release. These fortunately are very inexpensive, and I believe Microchip offers a service where you can buy the chips already programmed in very small quantities.

 

As for the required Plug-In Modules, you'll need a U1MB (either Candle's or Lotharek's), a UAV from AA member Bryan (specified for an XEL), and a Sparkfun BOB-12731 FTDI Breakout for the SIO2PC-USB (this is optional, although highly recommended).

 

The full release will contain Gerber and Design files for both the 1088XEL and the XEL-I3 CF Adapter board (both at revision level V1.1). The release package will also contain BOMs for both boards.

 

I will be doing a test run on the final revs in about 1-2 weeks from EasyEDA. Assuming all goes well after I've assembled and tested one of them, you can expect the project release to occur within 1-2 weeks following that test run.

 

I will not be personally involved in doing any kind of a pre-order myself, but there is one individual in our test group that has expressed an interest in doing so. And just to cover my butt I will not be guaranteeing anything beyond what has been talked about in this post. So in other words, I don't want to be held liable if your board doesn't work if you do decide to take the DIY approach. And I also can't speak for anyone else's policies that decides to sell these assembled, or as a kit of parts. I personally will not make any money off of this venture, so please just appreciate the fact that I have decided to share what I've created. And above all else, I hope everything goes well, and that you get much enjoyment from having your own 1088XEL.

 

- Michael



#767 Theoryman OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:44 AM

Hi Theoryman, the PAL issue has been resolved so I'm sure Michael will be releasing the design files very soon. There are plans for a production run by one member, don't know if this will be bare boards, kits or turn-key builds. The Gerber files will be open HW so anyone can do a run of boards. Most board houses will have a 10 board min so a group buy would be best.

 

I would suggest that if you want a kit wait till it's announced before ordering the basic parts, the cost may be better due to volume discounts and having all the needed parts from one source is saves a lot of headaches. Most likely the chipset, U1MB, UAV and FTDI BOB will have to be sourced but I would hold off

 

The harder to find parts are listed here, but if kits are available I would recommend waiting.
You will need a known good chipset- CPU, ANTIC, GTIA, PIA and PoKEY (2 for stereo). You can either use a donor Atari or buy NOS chips.

The ANTIC and GTIA both need to be either NTSC or PAL, you can't mix and match. Also the (NTSC) ANTIC can be the older CO12296 or the newer CO21697, the older one is cheaper from some sources.

If you are going to build a PAL version you will also need the Xtals 3.546894MHz and 4.433618MHz. Check at Best as these are not so easy to find. For NTSC you will need a 3.579545MHz but should be able to find it at Digikey so wait for you other BOM parts.

 

U1MB, will have to change the RA headers to straight one. So if you don't want to do the de-soldering, contact someone to help. I believe Stephen has offered to help with this (earlier in this thread).

 

UAV ver C or ver D have both been tested, when ordering from Bryan request the XEL headers, all 3 SIPs are 'pin-2-pin'.

 

Sparkfun FTDI BoB 12731

 

You'll also need the 64K SRAM chip UM61512A. Will have to search Ebay, I ordered from this seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/391377191204and http://www.ebay.com/itm/371081620321

 

3 PICs- 2 16F1847 and a 16F1571. These need to be programmed with the firmware, If you can program them then buy them blank but otherwise you could ask here or buy from Microchip Direct and have them factory programmed. I would wait as there are still firmware updates in the works.

 

Cart connector-http://www.ebay.com/itm/140888497123and ECI connector-http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pc-Industrial-Card-Edge-Slot-Socket-Connector-7x2P-14P-2-54mm-0-1-3A/141501565005?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

There are also the RCA and S-Video stacked connector and PS2 KB and Mouse stacked connector. The SIO connector or you can use a DB-15. A DIN 13 RGB connector, like on the Atari STs, optional.

 

Most everything else can be ordered from Digikey and will ship fast, so wait for the BOM with the updated list.

Yogi

 

Hi Theoryman, the PAL issue has been resolved so I'm sure Michael will be releasing the design files very soon. There are plans for a production run by one member, don't know if this will be bare boards, kits or turn-key builds. The Gerber files will be open HW so anyone can do a run of boards. Most board houses will have a 10 board min so a group buy would be best.

 

I would suggest that if you want a kit wait till it's announced before ordering the basic parts, the cost may be better due to volume discounts and having all the needed parts from one source is saves a lot of headaches. Most likely the chipset, U1MB, UAV and FTDI BOB will have to be sourced but I would hold off

 

The harder to find parts are listed here, but if kits are available I would recommend waiting.
You will need a known good chipset- CPU, ANTIC, GTIA, PIA and PoKEY (2 for stereo). You can either use a donor Atari or buy NOS chips.

The ANTIC and GTIA both need to be either NTSC or PAL, you can't mix and match. Also the (NTSC) ANTIC can be the older CO12296 or the newer CO21697, the older one is cheaper from some sources.

If you are going to build a PAL version you will also need the Xtals 3.546894MHz and 4.433618MHz. Check at Best as these are not so easy to find. For NTSC you will need a 3.579545MHz but should be able to find it at Digikey so wait for you other BOM parts.

 

U1MB, will have to change the RA headers to straight one. So if you don't want to do the de-soldering, contact someone to help. I believe Stephen has offered to help with this (earlier in this thread).

 

UAV ver C or ver D have both been tested, when ordering from Bryan request the XEL headers, all 3 SIPs are 'pin-2-pin'.

 

Sparkfun FTDI BoB 12731

 

You'll also need the 64K SRAM chip UM61512A. Will have to search Ebay, I ordered from this seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/391377191204and http://www.ebay.com/itm/371081620321

 

3 PICs- 2 16F1847 and a 16F1571. These need to be programmed with the firmware, If you can program them then buy them blank but otherwise you could ask here or buy from Microchip Direct and have them factory programmed. I would wait as there are still firmware updates in the works.

 

Cart connector-http://www.ebay.com/itm/140888497123and ECI connector-http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pc-Industrial-Card-Edge-Slot-Socket-Connector-7x2P-14P-2-54mm-0-1-3A/141501565005?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

There are also the RCA and S-Video stacked connector and PS2 KB and Mouse stacked connector. The SIO connector or you can use a DB-15. A DIN 13 RGB connector, like on the Atari STs, optional.

 

Most everything else can be ordered from Digikey and will ship fast, so wait for the BOM with the updated list.

Yogi

 

Thanks for the reply...

 

I may have given the wrong impression, I am stateside and am concerned about shipping times from Europe to the states.

 

I am very interested in a group buy of bare boards, as I expect I'd like three. 

 

Chipset's are no problem... I have quite a few units with dead keyboards and such.  NTSC.

 

Generally available parts, logic, connectors, (except Atari 13 pin), discrete components... I likely have many on hand...

 

I have PIC's and programmers.

 

I have rework gear and experience, so none of that worries me...

 

Just want to get the special, pre-made assemblies on the way.  Especially the stuff from the EU.

 

Comments on Rapidus? 

VBXL or VBXE?

U1MB?  Any special version?

 

Those all come from Poland, I believe.  I'd assume a single order would save me some shipping?

 

I'll order the UAV for XEL.

 

And I often buy gear from SparkFun.

 

Thanks...

 

Theory

--



#768 Theoryman OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:51 AM

 

Yep Yogi (Van) pretty much covered the basics on his last post. And I'm still not ready to release the BOM yet, but I can give you this for starters...

 

lN8zuly.png

The only crystal you need to purchase from BEST is the PAL 3.546894 shown in the list, and only if you intend to run the board in a PAL configuration. All the other crystals are off the shelf items that can be ordered from Digi-Key, and as Yogi pointed out, those will only take a few days. Unfortunately BEST's POKEY pricing and limit of one policy can be a problem, so if you have a loaner board to take chips from so much the better. For starters you can get by on only one Pokey. Also just to be clear either the 400/800 or XE/XL ANTIC chip will work, but the older series is much less expensive.

 

There are 3 PIC chips required, two PIC16F1847's, and one PIC12F1571. Updated code for all 3 will be included with the full release. These fortunately are very inexpensive, and I believe Microchip offers a service where you can buy the chips already programmed in very small quantities.

 

As for the required Plug-In Modules, you'll need a U1MB (either Candle's or Lotharek's), a UAV from AA member Bryan (specified for an XEL), and a Sparkfun BOB-12731 FTDI Breakout for the SIO2PC-USB (this is optional, although highly recommended).

 

The full release will contain Gerber and Design files for both the 1088XEL and the XEL-I3 CF Adapter board (both at revision level V1.1). The release package will also contain BOMs for both boards.

 

I will be doing a test run on the final revs in about 1-2 weeks from EasyEDA. Assuming all goes well after I've assembled and tested one of them, you can expect the project release to occur within 1-2 weeks following that test run.

 

I will not be personally involved in doing any kind of a pre-order myself, but there is one individual in our test group that has expressed an interest in doing so. And just to cover my butt I will not be guaranteeing anything beyond what has been talked about in this post. So in other words, I don't want to be held liable if your board doesn't work if you do decide to take the DIY approach. And I also can't speak for anyone else's policies that decides to sell these assembled, or as a kit of parts. I personally will not make any money off of this venture, so please just appreciate the fact that I have decided to share what I've created. And above all else, I hope everything goes well, and that you get much enjoyment from having your own 1088XEL.

 

- Michael

 

Thanks for the reply...

 

This seems to have everything I ever wanted in an Atari...

 

I have all the Atari chips... just concerned about the PIC's and plugin modules. 

 

I asked above, but I'll ask you as the creator as well...

 

Comments on Rapidus? 

VBXL or VBXE?

U1MB?  Any special version?

 

Thanks again, I am so glad to find something like this when I finally have the time and money to play with it...

 

Theory

 

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#769 Van OFFLINE  

Van

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:56 AM

 

 

Thanks for the reply...

 

I may have given the wrong impression, I am stateside and am concerned about shipping times from Europe to the states.

 

I am very interested in a group buy of bare boards, as I expect I'd like three. 

 

Chipset's are no problem... I have quite a few units with dead keyboards and such.  NTSC.

 

Generally available parts, logic, connectors, (except Atari 13 pin), discrete components... I likely have many on hand...

 

I have PIC's and programmers.

 

I have rework gear and experience, so none of that worries me...

 

Just want to get the special, pre-made assemblies on the way.  Especially the stuff from the EU.

 

Comments on Rapidus? 

VBXL or VBXE?

U1MB?  Any special version?

 

Those all come from Poland, I believe.  I'd assume a single order would save me some shipping?

 

I'll order the UAV for XEL.

 

And I often buy gear from SparkFun.

 

Thanks...

 

Theory

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Sounds like you're in good shape.

 

As far as the U1MB there is only one version from Lotharek. An XEL BIOS with support for the XEL I3 is being developed and tested. The BIOS is flashable via Flashjazzcat's tools so not a concern when ordering the board.

 

I don't think the Rapidus was tested in the XEL but board space was allowed for it. The VBXE  as well as the Sophia GTIA in CPLD board have been tested and work well. I think you need the XE adapter but I don't have any experience with the VBXE so can't help much with the install. The XEL does have headers for the clock/system connections to simplify the VBXE install. Hopefully one of the other testers will jump in here.  Another tip- there are a couple caps between the CPU and Antic, they need to be Axial lead type (as per the BOM) to avoid the VBXE adapter. Or if you have/use Radial lead caps lay them flat. These mods are optional and I would suggest you get the board booting in the basic configuration before adding them.

 

The 13p DIN connector is connected to a header near the video section and can be used for the RGB output from the VBXE or Sophia or you could use a more standard DB15 video connector with a cable from the video board. The DIN connector/cable is not too common but if you have an Atari CRT this could be a good option. Otherwise I would go with the DB socket and use a case with  knockouts for panel mounting the connector.

 

The skinny SRAM chip is not too common so it should be ordered from Ebay and has a bit of wait time coming from Asia. I've used the seller UTSource a few times and consider them a 'trusted' source but like many Far East sellers, orders take weeks to arrive.

 

The other hard to find parts are the Cart and ECI card edge connectors. The Ebay seller wonderco_buy, I linked to above, has both but the items are in lots of 5 and 10. The shipping at first looks high but the parts are very well packed and arrived very fast. So seems to me very comparable to orders from Mouser or Digikey ( if they had the connectors).

Yogi



#770 orpheuswaking OFFLINE  

orpheuswaking

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:15 AM

I would imagine with the connectors that it would be better to wait for a bulk order / kit order. Unless of course you are looking to build out multiple boards. I'm planning on having at least two, and eventually maybe three total boards. 



#771 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:41 AM

To my knowledge only the Sophia GTIA piggyback video board has been tested with the XEL (and it works great, and fits perfectly by using one stacked socket). The VBXE has not been tested with the XEL that I know of, although it should fit fine if you get the XE version. Rapidus also not tested with the XEL, and it'll likely have a clearance problem with the MPBI port, so might require an additional stacked socket or two to allow cable clearance to this connector. To be quite honest when I looked at the cost of the Rapidus, which comes pretty close to the entire cost of the XEL (assuming the Atari VLSI chips are from a donor), it just didn't seem like something that a lot people were going to do, so it wasn't made a priority in the XEL design process.

As for the XEL unstuffed bare pcb, these can be purchased in as few as 5 pieces for about $95 including slow boat shipping through EasyEDA (just under $20 a per board). However with greater quantities will come a greater discount, so the per board cost might approach $10 per board. As can be seen the board surprisingly will not be the high dollar item in this project, even though it is a 4-layer PCB.

The U1MB will be the higher priced required item, and the one with the longest lead time to arrive in the US from Poland. Obviously if you want to also include some of the optional items such as the VBXE, it would make sense to bundle it together to save on shipping and wait time.

Edit: as mentioned a few items from China could take even longer to arrive.

- Michael

Edited by mytekcontrols, Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:44 AM.


#772 Van OFFLINE  

Van

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:51 AM

Oh my bad, thought someone had tested the VBXE. To be honest I'm very satisfied with just the S-Video from the UAV but of course the VBXE and Sophia offer enhanced modes in addition to the RGB output.

Yogi



#773 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:10 AM

Oh my bad, thought someone had tested the VBXE. To be honest I'm very satisfied with just the S-Video from the UAV but of course the VBXE and Sophia offer enhanced modes in addition to the RGB output.
Yogi


Stephen was going to, but he had the wrong Antic adapter (need the XE version). This was probably for the better, since his board ran into problems with the PAL mode and I could see the VBXE being an unneeded distraction. But its pretty certain that the VBXE will be compatible, so I'm not too concerned about it (knock on wood).

- Michael

#774 mytek OFFLINE  

mytek

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Posted Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:14 PM

Oh my bad, thought someone had tested the VBXE. To be honest I'm very satisfied with just the S-Video from the UAV but of course the VBXE and Sophia offer enhanced modes in addition to the RGB output.

Yogi

 

I too am very happy with the Composite and S-Video output quality from the UAV, and on the plus side these outputs also benefit from the built-in VGATE chip to prevent over scan junk from showing on wider screens, which is something that the Sophia doesn't prevent (not sure about the VBXE).

 

- Michael



#775 Theoryman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:38 AM

To my knowledge only the Sophia GTIA piggyback video board has been tested with the XEL (and it works great, and fits perfectly by using one stacked socket). The VBXE has not been tested with the XEL that I know of, although it should fit fine if you get the XE version. Rapidus also not tested with the XEL, and it'll likely have a clearance problem with the MPBI port, so might require an additional stacked socket or two to allow cable clearance to this connector. To be quite honest when I looked at the cost of the Rapidus, which comes pretty close to the entire cost of the XEL (assuming the Atari VLSI chips are from a donor), it just didn't seem like something that a lot people were going to do, so it wasn't made a priority in the XEL design process.

As for the XEL unstuffed bare pcb, these can be purchased in as few as 5 pieces for about $95 including slow boat shipping through EasyEDA (just under $20 a per board). However with greater quantities will come a greater discount, so the per board cost might approach $10 per board. As can be seen the board surprisingly will not be the high dollar item in this project, even though it is a 4-layer PCB.

The U1MB will be the higher priced required item, and the one with the longest lead time to arrive in the US from Poland. Obviously if you want to also include some of the optional items such as the VBXE, it would make sense to bundle it together to save on shipping and wait time.

Edit: as mentioned a few items from China could take even longer to arrive.

- Michael

 

Thank you, Michael.

 

I expect I will be a bit of a beta tester then...  As I do want the enhanced graphics of the VBXE.

 

I'd also like the Rapidus, as I had and played with a Turbo816 when I was much younger.  I think a right angle bare pin header and a low profile ribbon cable end would solve the header clearance issue.  Looks like the other side, between the U1MB might be tight but doable.

 

Based on looking at the current docs, I believe that the XE version of the Rapidus would be the appropriate choice.  /EXTSEL and /MPD can be picked up right off the mini PBI...

 

I expect I will place the orders over this weekend.

 

Theory

 

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