Level42 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Maybe, with some of the proposed rework in SMD, some extra space can be bodged out to include both variants on-board, being user switchable - or something like was being bantered about / explored in this thread, may one day be implemented. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/269457-i-want-to-learn-antic-gtia/ please hold your horses..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter44102 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Is there a page or document that summarizes the features and specs of the 1088XEL. Is it basically a 65XE with the U1M upgrade that fits in a ITX case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) SMD although nice for automated assembly and size reduction, would not have fit this project which was aimed at DIY. Now I know some people will say it's easier to use SMD, but for many of us aging Atarians with poor eyesight that really wouldn't be an option . - Michael The eyesight thing when getting older is a thing I fully recognise.....but luckily, modern day technology combined with Chinese craftsmanship offers solutions to that...I've ordered one of these...... http://s.aliexpress.com/mqyIJfEZ even if you will not do SMD this will still be very nice to check your through-hole solder work........I know I wish I could have had one of these a few years ago....would have saved me checking arcade PCBs with a tiny microscope....and all this for 50 Euro shipped..... Edited October 22, 2017 by Level42 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 The eyesight thing when getting older is a thing I fully recognise.....but luckily, modern day technology combined with Chinese craftsmanship offers solutions to that...I've ordered one of these...... http://s.aliexpress.com/mqyIJfEZ even if you will not do SMD this will still be very nice to check your through-hole solder work........I know I wish I could have had one of these a few years ago....would have saved me checking arcade PCBs with a tiny microscope....and all this for 50 Euro shipped..... That might be a real alternative to this solution I purchased a couple of years ago when my eyesight began to get fuzzy. I've worn glasses all my life and those headlight magnifiers just weren't an option. Realspace Clamp On Magnifier Task Lamp Although I wish the screen were a little bigger, I guess I'm not seeing a whole lot more looking through the six inch diameter of the glass lens on the lamp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Amazon's in the picture for source, but at a heck of a markup. Amazon source Or try this one better price Edited October 22, 2017 by Dropcheck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Uhh, why not simply order at Aliexpress ? I paid only 50 euros shipped.....see the link I provided... 50 euros is about 55 USD Why do people all run to Amazon ? In the end you still get this item shipped from China....and Amazon laughs....yes of course so does Aliexpress but it offers much better prices... [EDIT] not trying to derail this thread.... [EDIT 2] whatever you do, don't get the one with the "windshield navigation system plastic stand". It won't allow room enough to work under it , is not straight to the subject and is not stable at all. Edited October 22, 2017 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Uhh, why not simply order at Aliexpress ? I paid only 50 euros shipped.....see the link I provided... 50 euros is about 55 USD Why do people all run to Amazon ? In the end you still get this item shipped from China....and Amazon laughs....yes of course so does Aliexpress but it offers much better prices... [EDIT] not trying to derail this thread.... Sometimes it's the convenience factor, sometimes it's the faster delivery if the item is already in the states(3 days vs 2+ weeks), sometimes it's concern over the source. Amazon does have some degree of buyer's protection even if they don't stock it themselves. I'm not saying it's the best necessarily. Just that it is an alternative source depending on your priorities. Just because it's cheaper, doesn't necessarily mean it's better. And vis versa. Edited October 22, 2017 by Dropcheck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Just my 2 cents... I order stuff all the time via AliExpress because they have excellent buyer protection features built-in and some really great deals. Never had problem yet, has anyone else?BTW, that scope thing looks very cool, maybe gotta get one of those.So now to drag this discussion back on topic, the question was asked "Is there a page or document that summarizes the features and specs of the 1088XEL."Presently there is no such document, unless you consider this thread to be one, which in a very lengthy way it is. But to break it down, due to the U1MB being an integral part of the hardware, it can be any A8 system you want from an OS and built-in language point of view. But as far as the hardware design is concerned it is unique, and stands on it's own.FeaturesMini-ITX Form Factor64k SRAM Base Memory1 MB Extended Memory (reconfigurable)4 16k OS Slots4 8k Language Slots4 8k Game or Additional Language Slots (w/XEGS OS)SDX (DOS)Battery Backed RTCStereo POKEY's with built-in U-Switch controlPS2 Keyboard(s) - will simultaneously support up to 2 with special Y cordPS2 Mouse - ST Mouse Emulation directable to either Jport 1 or 2 or neitherCart/ECI Ports (130XE compatible)Two Standard A8 Compatible Joystick Ports (via ribbon cable adapter)SIO2PC-USB + Standard SIO PortsHigh Quality Composite/S-Video Output (UAV)Both PAL and NTSC chip support built-in (requires changing Antic-GTIA-Crystal)Video Over Scan EliminatorSophia/VBXE RGB Ready DIN-13 Connection wired for Stereo AudioPC-like PSU Power Control via momentary switchDual PSU support (can be run from either wall adapter or mini-ATX PSU)MPBI Port - NEW Type of Parallel Expansion - Currently Supports IDE44/Compact Flash HDD Board (3rd Party OPL Sound Board in Development)And lots of built-in headers to allow easy connections for Internal SIO, PS2, Audio, Video, as well as 3 Accessory Power ConnectionsFully Customized 1088XEL/XEL-CF Specific U1MB BIOS by FlashJazzCatAnd this is Real Atari Iron based on original Atari VSLI Chip Set, so you get full hardware compatibility.- Michael Edited October 22, 2017 by mytekcontrols 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Nice specs, however, I'd like to point out the fact that the U1M clock is NOT R-Time8 compatible. It won't be seen by disk based Sparta. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 Nice specs, however, I'd like to point out the fact that the U1M clock is NOT R-Time8 compatible. It won't be seen by disk based Sparta. Thank you Kyle, specs have been updated accordingly. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter44102 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Thanks Michael the specs are awesome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 This Design has been Superseded by this: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/261147-1088xel-alternative-mother-board-project/page-45?do=findComment&comment=3874468 So now that I've gotten the bulk of the work done on the main boards, I've revisited the infamously ugly mouse selector switch and here is what I am thinking of...Use one of these Tactile Push Button Switches.Translate the button clicks into a sequential sequence that will route the mouse to either Joystick 1 -or- Joystick 2 -or- neither (when no mouse is desired). Only requiring 4 wires to go from this board over to the 1088XEL's Mouse Select Header, with the other signals allowing In-Circuit Programming of the PIC chip (there will be a JOY2PIC Flashing ATR created to make this easy to do from your A8). And so that the mouse selection is retained, I am using the on-board EEPROM of the PIC chip to save the count and then restore it the next time the system is powered up.Preliminary PCB design which will line up with the existing holes in the Realan H80 enclosure.And a simulation of the embedded PIC processor code. Note each time I stop the simulation and restart, it mimics power-down and power-up conditions and is being used to to demonstrate that the mouse select state is retained and restored. This simulation is using actual source code, so in essence my code design is complete. This whole thing including the schematic and PCB layout was done in an afternoon, but will likely still require a few tweaks to bring fully into reality.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIA_G-lgf_sThis is going to be cheap since the parts are very inexpensive and the size of the board is very small. And although I am designing it with the Realan case in mind, it'll work for other cases by simply drilling a few holes on a common center.Of course I could have also executed this idea directly into the mouse chip's code, thereby changing from a toggle switch over to the push button and not requiring an independent processor. But since a PCB would still be the preferred way to go in order to mount the LED's and the switch, adding a small 8-pin chip to that same board for less than $1 was a no brainier. This way the original functionality remains intact, which also supports the option of dispensing with the switch and LED's and simply presetting the mouse port selection with a jumper block say on Joystick port 2 for use with GOS.- Michael 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 XEL Mouse Port Select Board Refinements (New Design: Updated 11/16/2017) After analyzing the design I discovered an error on the ICSP lines. And then when I took another look at the Realan case situation, and how the board needed to mount where the side entry USB connector had previously been, the more I didn't like the design. So having to fix the board layout anyway because of the discovered ICSP error, I decided to take a new approach. And here is what that looks like. PIC12F629 datasheet Download PDF Schematic: MouseSelect_schema.pdf The LED and the push button switch get mounted on the backside of the board, which would be the side facing the panel. Dimensional Data: The 0.12" (3.1 mm) diameter holes on each end, line up with the existing USB mounting screw holes in the Realan case, and the Bi-Color Red/Green LED and push button switch's plunger will fit through the USB rectangular cutout (small stand-offs or washers will be used to space the board). Download Scale Drawing: MouseSelect_dimensions.pdf I did a price check at OSHpark and the cost for 3 bare boards to your door = $5.45 ($1.82 each). Note: Three boards is the minimum quantity that can be ordered from OSHpark. - Michael 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Updated - For those DIYers here is a DigiKey Cart for everything that can be obtained from them per Michael's BOM. If you decided to use it please verify item number and quantity for accuracy . Once at the site there will be some items that will be offered at a better price if a larger quantity is ordered just hit submit to continue to cart. The DigiKey Cart for 1088 XEL Rev 1.1 - Updated 10-23-17 - Added the alternative caps (Digi-Key 1109PHCT-ND) for C11, C12, C14, C15, C16, C17 for placement under the Pokey chip at U5, and reduced the quantity by 6 for 399-9870-1-ND. Also, added A31715-ND (CONN CARDEDGE FEMALE 30POS 0.100). Also, there has been several items on "Back-order" and may not be available for several weeks to a month or two. To be consistent with the circuit design pass any component substitutes by Michael to be safe before ordering. *Note: This is not everything that is required to complete the build only the Digi-Key sourced components. Please refer to the official updated released BOM from Michael dated 10-19-2017 for details!!! Mike 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 Updated - For those DIYers here is a DigiKey Cart for everything that can be obtained from them per Michael's BOM. If you decided to use it please verify item number and quantity for accuracy . Once at the site there will be some items that will be offered at a better price if a larger quantity is ordered just hit submit to continue to cart. The DigiKey Cart for 1088 XEL Rev 1.1 - Updated 10-23-17 - Added the alternative caps (Digi-Key 1109PHCT-ND) for C11, C12, C14, C15, C16, C17 for placement under the Pokey chip at U5, and reduced the quantity by 6 for 399-9870-1-ND. Also, added A31715-ND (CONN CARDEDGE FEMALE 30POS 0.100). *Note: This is not everything that is required to complete the build only the Digi-Key sourced components. Please refer to the official updated released BOM from Michael dated 10-19-2017 for details!!! Mike Wow thanks a bunch for doing this. It'll make ordering so much easier for the DIY person. - Michael 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZuluGula Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Few items are currently unavailable. Do they can be replaced by those: http://www.digikey.com/short/qt8n9n I would also add JOY2PIC parts as I think any DIYer need some way to program the PIC chips. Edited October 23, 2017 by ZuluGula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 Few items are currently unavailable. Do they can be replaced by those: http://www.digikey.com/short/qt8n9n I would also add JOY2PIC parts as I think any DIYer need some way to program the PIC chips. I just checked your link, and all of those parts are now available (must have just received a shipment to replenish their stock). I would create an independent cart for the JOY2PIC because not everyone will necessarily need that (might already have one or some other form of programming the chips such as a PICkit). - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZuluGula Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 My link contain a cart with replacement parts for the out of stock parts from original BOM. I just want to make sure that they will work. I have two 4053 chips, are they the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 My link contain a cart with replacement parts for the out of stock parts from original BOM. I just want to make sure that they will work. I have two 4053 chips, are they the same? So sorry I didn't check better before replying to your first post. You'll want to substitute the CD74HC4053 for the specified HCT part in the BOM. Normally this would not be an issue going with the CD4053 instead since most of the switching is just dealing with audio signals, but one of it's switches is being used at video frequencies and there could be a speed problem. The other parts you specified all look good, in fact the alternate D-sub15 SIO connector is a pretty good deal cheaper than what I spec'ed, so I'll probably switch over to that one in the BOM. Thanks for posting the alternate parts cart - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 New Design: Updated 10/25/2017 Here's a look at hooking up the Mouse Port Select board to the 1088XEL. Test PCB's are on their way. So hopefully in about a week I should have this design verified, and will then post the production gerber files and the PIC chip firmware. And even though this simplified connection diagram shows the wires going directly to the header pin holes, in reality it'll be connected via a 6-position Dupont crimp terminal housing connector on the Mouse Port Select board, and a 7-position crimp terminal housing connector on the 1088XEL side of things. I could get away with less positions, but that would likely be prone to human error when plugging it in. The header also provides the signals for In-Circuit Serial Programming (ICSP), so flashing the embedded PIC chip can be done with either a standard programmer that supports this chip (most do), or via the JOY2PIC A8 programming adapter and a flashing ATR. eBay: Dupont 6P Terminal Housing eBay: Dupont 7P Terminal Housing eBay: Crimp Terminals eBay: Crimp Tool - Michael 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 New LED Status Board (for the Realan case custom top panel). This board is also getting fabbed, and will ship with the Mouse Port Selection test boards. It's designed to fit underneath this panel... The problem with the first prototype was that I was trying to save two pins on the overall size of the header, and ended up shooting myself in the foot. I had created a common on two sets of LEDs, one set worked whereas the other was messed up because I overlooked the fact that the switching action was inverted on one of the LED's in that pair. Anyway long story short this one has each LED individually routed to it's own pair of header pins, no common connections this time around. You'll need this to connect on the Status Board side. eBay: Dupont 10P Terminal Housing And several of these to connect to the 1088XEL's LED headers. eBay: Dupont 2P Terminal Housing And the terminals plus the crimping tool I referenced on the previous post. Board Mounting - Michael 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I just noticed that the XEL only has two 9-pin D-connectors. Given that, will it support playing 4-stick games like MULE? And if so, how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I just noticed that the XEL only has two 9-pin D-connectors. Given that, will it support playing 4-stick games like MULE? And if so, how? I'm sure Michael will give the definitive answer but no, it won't. PIA Port B (which controls I/O from joystick ports 3 and 4) is necessary to control extended RAM access and some other OS stuff; that's why the 1200XL and all subsequent XL and XE models have only 2 ports. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+David_P Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 For MULE on an XE/XL, you can use one joystick and a set of paddles to let up to three players play at once. Or buy an 800, and keep it for MULE... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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